Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

So what would happen if I stuck some aluminium foil to a large sheet of cardboard and then waved it in front of a speed camera? Would this trigger the camera? What about strips of foil similiar to those used by aircraft to defect enemy radar?

Second question - if the above can trigger the camera what would happen if for example I left strips of foil near the camera just blowing in the wind and randomly setting off the camera, assuming that at some point during the day a motorist speeds past the camera and gets a ticket, would the ticket be invalid?

Third question - If the camera was being triggered every few seconds I assume at some point it would run out of film or memory?
Foiling a speed camera - Brian Tryzers
Yawn
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

Wow willdebeest - what an informative and witty post. Thanks for taking the time to post such a dumbass reply. If you think it's boring then just ignore the post and it will soon disapear from the board, never to trouble you again.

:)
Foiling a speed camera - madf
imo wiildebeest's reply was as intelligent as the questions.

Sorry but this subject has been discussed to death.. and there are TECHNICAL and definitive answers on the internet - if you can be bothered to search..
madf
Foiling a speed camera - J Bonington Jagworth
Worth a try, but given that it's a camera, you might be noticed...
Foiling a speed camera - Armitage Shanks {p}
Why and in what circumstances would you want to do this? Are going to construct your cardboard and foil thingy and walk down to your nearest camera and wave it about a bit? Are you going to keep this stuff in the back of your car and, if you think you have zapped, park up, walk back and wave it about? It won't work anyway and I can't envisage any circumstances when you would use it it anyway. If WE are the ones who are stupid (we aren't BTW) please enlighten us Oh Wise One!
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

Yes, I have searched the Internet and I couldn't find anything other than a Mythbusters episode where they proved that speeding birds (of the winged type) can set cameras off. The interesting point was that the camera made some dodgy speed recordings.

If the answers are on the Internet then maybe someone could post a link?

AS - I'm not calling anyone on this board stupid, not even willdebeest - the comment is aimed at that one post, not the poster and not anyone else. I've read many of willdebeests posts and they are generally very good. If you think my post was dumb then why reply with an equally dumb post?

The question is completely hypothectial (not sure how you spell that), I'm not going to try it out, I'm just curious. I've never been zapped by a speed camera and don't itend to. So it's not something I would ever consider. Doing this for real would be stupid. :)

I've been reading this board for a few years now and have never seen this topic discussed, maybe it has, but I've not seen it.

I don't really know how the cameras work but my understanding was that they use radar. I also understand that aluminium will reflect radar. Therefore being able to set off the camera, I assume the foil would need to be moving or possibly vibrating for the doppler effect to work. Maybe someone smart could elaborate?

I'm not saying that this would work, I'm asking 'would it work?' If not, then why not?

Foiling a speed camera - local yokel
Chaff (strips of tinfoil released by aircraft) is used for two reasons - one to confuse a radar guided missile for a few seconds, by giving it multiple targets, in the hope that it will lock onto a slower moving, closer piece of chaff, and in WW2, chaff was dropped, notably on D-Day, to give the German radars the impression of a convoy moving towards France where there was no convoy on the surface.

Chaff has no application in the case the OP describes.
Foiling a speed camera - Altea Ego
Chaff (as its called now) or Window (as its WW2 code name was known) was a well know flaw with radar systems - bundles and bundles (tons and tons in fact) of aluminium foil strips cut to half radar wavelengths. Both the Germans and the Allies knew of its properties but neither side wanted to introduce it in case the other had not thought of it. It was in fact feared to be a Radar doomsday weapon. All it did was blind the radar.


Radar of the day did not measure speed, but height and bearing. Speed was measured by plotting, time and trigonometery, and that was windows/chaff main failing. It had very little forward motion, and hence a short period of plotting would reveal it for exactly what it was. Your radar was still blind but you knew chaff was being deployed.

The cure was to switch radar frequencies frequently and use a frequency outside the half wavelength of the chaff strips.


To get to the orginal posters question, if someone had deployed chaff into trees around the camera site, it would not affect the speed readings as the chaff is not actually traveling. Its presence however might be enough to cloud the case beyond reasonable doubt in court.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Foiling a speed camera - Collos25
They use laser technology not LF radar they only real way to fool them is to either chop them down,set them on fire,or better still drive at the correct speed limit and then the question is not required.
Foiling a speed camera - Cliff Pope
You could borrow a large metal refuse bin, paint an imaginary number plate on it, and then push it along the road as fast as you can towards the speed camera. Try this a number of times, at a range of different speeds, and see if you can make the camera flash. If the camera does not respond, it may be because it has failed to recognise the device as a car. In that case you need to add the words Kevin and Shaz at about upper windscreen height. There is no point in adding a Baby on Board sticker at the rear, because the camera, like everyone else, will just find it irritating and pointless.

Good luck with your research. Do write and tell us about it.
Foiling a speed camera - pmh
....You could borrow a large metal refuse bin.....

But wouldn't it be better to take the large metal bin and just lower it over the camera?
--

pmh (was peter)


Foiling a speed camera - Screwloose

This is getting silly!

I thought everyone knew how to handle a camera that's had the temerity to flash at you.

You just go back there later with your heavy breakdown crane; hook the winch cable round the pole, drive off and then throw the pesky thing into the river - sorted!
Foiling a speed camera - rory
I seem to recall some time back hearing about some kids who threaded a bit of string down through a tin can and then stood next to the camera whirling it. I've no more details, but I recall it was reported that this set the camera off ! Presumably then if it had old-fashioned film in it you could soon run it dry. And then I suppose, climb back into your car and re-trace your travel. Oh dear, what a bore..........
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

So if they use lasers, then surely the same principle of reflecting the laser light back would also trigger the camera?

The kids with the tin can is the effect I was thinking of. I.e. a reflective surface briefly moving fast enough for the camera to be set off.

Nice ideas with the metal dustbins, although the accepted practice round here is to go back late at night with an old car tyre and a can of petrol.

While the sillyness of this thread is fun, I'm really interested in the science of it more than anything. Having never been caught by a speed camera I don't actually have any need to foil the cameras, just curiousity needing to be satisfied.

I know for a fact that there are some very smart people on this forum, hopefully one of them will be along soon with the answer!

:) :) :) :0)

Foiling a speed camera - MikeTorque
You want a smart answer - then drop this topic.
Foiling a speed camera - Peter D
All static Gatso cameras are presently RF doppler not Laser as they specifically have to be aimed using sights/cross hairs to idenify the vehicle in the main beam. Laser technology is not type approved for unmanned static use. An RF refective object of about 0.3 of a square metre traveling at constant 53ft a second i.e. 36/37 would trigger the detector and flash. However a rotating reflective panel is only travelling at the require steed for a split second when 90 degrees to the camera, the rest of the time it is either accelerating or deaccelerting towards or away from the camera. To reduce false triggers, the detection circuitry requires the dobbler to be relatively stable for a period of time before it triggers the two flashes at 0.5 of a second apart. There are other camera that use embedded road sensors and do not transmit any RF thus not detectable with speed trap detectors. If I were you I would stay off the 'moonshine' and get a life. Regards Peter
Foiling a speed camera - storme
i dont really see what the problem is..

a question or two was asked and if people know the answer then answer it.. if they dont... well fluffy dice away....


moonshine,, interesting questions.. dont know any of the answers, but i had another question..especially for the people hear who never answer something correctly unless they like it..

my question to this topic is...

quite often cars/van/bikes etc have flappy flying things around thier cars.. flags banners st georges flags etc etc

so on the same topic as moonshine...what if they add ons were reflective..would they interfere with the readings??
Foiling a speed camera - oldgit
Good luck with your research. Do write and tell us about it.


Is that not a typo? Didn't you mean 'Don't write and tell us about it'?
Foiling a speed camera - LHM
If you wish to sneakily 'defeat' an original 'rearward-looking' Gatso camera (radar-operated, as others have said), cut a panel of 3mm aluminium the exact same size as the rear of the camera housing. Spray it in the exact same colour (usually bright yellow), then fix it to the rear of the camera using double-sided sticky pads and Robert's your mother's brother :-) It would probably take a while for the operators to 'twig' why everyone was being so law-abiding!
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

I'm not sure if I fully understand your post, but I believe you are saying that you can defect the cameras by driving within the speed limit. Sorry to disapoint you but this an old idea and I've been doing it ever since the cameras first appeared. Old hat, I'm afraid to say. And yes, if everyone could do the same we would see all the cameras disappear fairly quickly.

So reading Peter D's reply (who seems to be the resident gatso geek) a relatively small piece of aluminuim could in theory trigger the camera. The problem would be how to keep it moving forward fast enough and for long enough to trigger the camera. Top marks to Peter for a constructive contribution (spoilt by the cheap shot at the end, but I have a sense of humour so no offense taken).

Foiling a speed camera - Altea Ego
Stealth technology is the way to go. Angular deflective shapes, non metalic structure,

The Renault Aventime in fact.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Foiling a speed camera - Sofa Spud
I have a very successful foil for speed cameras - basically it involves being aware of the speed limit wherever you are and then, by making visual contact with the speeometer fitted in your vehicle, ensuring that you do not exceed that speed limit. This is a surprisingly effective way of foiling speed cameras.
Foiling a speed camera - Dwight Van Driver
It used to be a myth (urban) that dangling a shiney CD disc in the front window like a fluffy dice/ rotating shiney hub caps etc would deflect and cause erroneous radar readings.......

What would happen if M did as he posts ?

Well Plod would probably come along and lift him under the Mental Health Act........hyperthetically of course......you understand.

dvd
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

Sofa spud you are too slow - see my earlier post - I beat you to it.

DVD - yes, I remember the dangling CD myth. It seems to have died out these days, I havn't seen a dangling CD in years. Seemed to be popular with the dodgy taxi drivers you used to see in London.

Not that I'm planning to, but if I did stand by a camera waving sheets of aluminium what would the problem be? It can't affect the camera so whats the problem?

Its interesting how so many people have jumped to a conclusion that I'm looking for some great way to 'beat' the cameras. I'm just curious, nothing more.

Probably tempting fate here but - I've been beating the cameras since they first appeared!

I rather like TVMs idea about the stealth car....
Foiling a speed camera - BobbyG
The other thing of course is that just because it flashes, doesn't necessarily mean there is a camera inside it!
Foiling a speed camera - Dynamic Dave
The other thing of course is that just because it flashes doesn't necessarily mean there
is a camera inside it!


The next generation of camera will put paid to that.

www.contractoruk.com/news/003262.html
tinyurl.com/2hu782

Foiling a speed camera - DrS
I recall many years ago reading an ticle about whirling a can of baked beans around on the end of a length of rope.....
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

madf said the answers were available on the Internet, unfortunately he hasn't been kind enough to provide a link :(

So anyway the best I could find (I could be bothered to search, yet again!) was from the TV show mythbusters where it seems they got close to having an effect

"Myth 6: Mirror on Wheel of Death

A plywood rotating disc was covered with a reflective material and rotated during driving. This was supposed to change the signal of the RADAR. There was a minor effect on the RADAR, but it still worked."

I have no idea what a mirror on a wheel of death is.....

Can anyone explain how the tin can on string would have worked?



Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

Just found something interesting - according to the police the tin can on a piece of string will set a GATSO off :)

forum.police999.com/viewtopic.php?t=3130&start=120...7

It's worth reading the whole topic, it makes a good read and assuming that most of the posts come form serving police officers it's interesting to see their views on speed cameras.
Foiling a speed camera - L'escargot
moonshine,

Why would you want to "foil a speed camera"? Are you lawless by nature? I'm surprised that someone of your employment status (it's in your profile) would even admit to considering doing such a thing.
--
L\'escargot.
Foiling a speed camera - Brit_in_Germany
My reformation, glitt'ring over my faults,
Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes
Than that which hath no foil to set it off
Foiling a speed camera - moonshine

I mentioned in an earlier post that I have been 'foiling' the cameras since they first appeared by not exceeding the speed limit.


I have no intention of going out in the street and waving sheets of aluminium around. Lawless? Is it illegal to wave a sheet of foil around?

I'm just curious about the science of it, surely there have been things in your life that you have been curious about but never considered doing for real? E.g. what would you do if you won the lottery? What car would you buy with unlimited funds etc.

Foiling a speed camera - Steve Pearce
I have no intention of going out in the street and waving sheets of aluminium
around. Lawless? Is it illegal to wave a sheet of foil around?


Generally no, but doing it front of a speed camera might not please the BiB. They might try a perverting the course of justice charge, like they did with that guy who was warning motorists of a speed trap; however I believe that prosecution failed.