Took the 3 day drive with 1.6 petrol in LS trim and overall it's a very good product. It has its quirks, like violently orange LCDs reflecting in all windows at night on dark road, or indicators on Japanese/right-hand side but overall it's a great swing at European market. Little electronic aids, such as monitoring seat belts and doors locking when you move, USB socket and AUX input for external players. 5 stars for effort really. It's extremely well built, not a squeak or rattle from anywhere, very good sound insulation and in 1.6 petrol version features surprisingly quiet and responsive engine with very smooth gearbox (very Opel like as well). Rear view is somewhat limited, with strangely shaped C pillars creating large blind spots helped only a little by rather large and oddly shaped mirrors. But all in all the car drives and handles very well.
That said.
There are some massive misconceptions in its presentation though.
First ? the 7 year warranty is in fact mileage limited 5 year warranty with additional 2 year warranty on power train. So that is something that Kia and Hyundai offer for years now ? the well known ?we are sure the age won't kill our cars, the mileage might though? 100k miles package. Which is still nothing to sneeze at, 5 years peace of mind comes handy ? it's just that I think ?7 years warranty? stickers with a ?*? and small print added are a bit of a dirty game - misleading ? sort of like those adverts for ?Unlimited broadband ?when in fact it's limited by very stringent or fuzzy ?Fair usage? policy.
Second ? this car is presented as straight shooting, hard punching Golf/Focus contender and in reality it simply isn't. This car, in terms of looks, interior, finish, materials and driving experience is more of alternative to previous Golf, previous Astra, previous Civic, and in all honesty it beats every one of them on all fronts. But realistically, it doesn't have space and handling of new Focus, it is nowhere near Golf finish + feel and it lacks flare and innovative spark of the new Civic. This car slots in perfectly into a niche left by discontinued Nissan Almera or the axed Toyota Corolla ? the well built, well kitted out, anonymous and slightly mundane looking but very safe and reliable car that doesn't excel at anything in particular and doesn't break any records but is easy to own and drive even if it has no street credit and attracts no attention from traffic light racers.
But here also lies the problem. If it doesn't do anything in particular better than major players and if you agree that this is ?the next best thing? product, the Skoda to Volkswagen crown if you will, or the ?reasonable alternative?, you might be surprised by the premium you have to pay for it. Officially 1.6 LS I drove costs £13,295 OTR. In reality, even with heavy discount from online brokers you still need to fork out anywhere close to £12,000 to own one. And that's exactly where Cee'd hits the marketing wall. Similar money can easily buy a reasonably specced hatchback Cee'd is aspiring to be alternative to. You can have anything from Focus Zetec Climate and Astra SXi, through Mazda 3 TS, galore of Clios, Pug 307s, Citroen C4s all the way to Toyota Auris TR, not to mention full galore of ?in-between size? market products like Fiat Grande Punto and such for the same or less money. I understand none of them will offer 5 year warranty with 2 year extended add-on, but still ? the logics of it is somewhat lost on me - you don't go to shop to buy Samsung washing machine for the price of Bosch or pick Bush instead of Sony LCD just because it's ?as good as? product. It wouldn't make sense. And this situation is similar ? Kia Cee'd is by no means a bad car, in fact it's really, really good. Much better than anyone expected. But would you pick one over Focus, Astra or Mazda 3 with similar trim at the same price? I don't see a reason to. Yes, the little electronic toys in Cee'd are nice but it's just that ? little extras. Extended warranty is not really worth that much premium, whereas simple convenience of having ?leading brand? serviced, fixed, matched parts to and accessorized on just about any street corner in any UK town easily translates into strong and unbeatable advantage.
There is a gaping hole in the market left by Nissan's withdrawal from family hatchback sector and recent changes in line-ups of Japanese manufacturers. Kia is the brand that would perfectly slot in that niche ? but for that they have to start measuring the market realistically ? instead of attempting to steal gold from top shelf and trying to fill Golf''s footprints I think Cee'd should take baby steps and be placed where public can reach it ? start at £7.5k Punto/Almera roster and go all the way to £11k for the fully kitted, sat nav, bells and whistles model. Only then we can say ?it's nearly as good as Astra and you should buy it?.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Korean products always start out at similar price levels to the VW/Ford set and work their way backwards. Bear in mind that the Nissan Almera is the same -- officially the cars that were being sold for £7500 were priced at closer to ten grand.
The base-spec models will be available for about £9000 within a year to 18 months. At that level the extra toys and that warranty will be enough to sway a lot of people. I agree that the current prices are too high, although only because of the brand -- I'm sure that the Kia is every bit as mechanically sound as the Japanese and German offerings.
I do feel though that the criticism of the warranty is a little disingenous. Manufacturers from Ford to Renault are guilty of similar tricks, from mileage-limiting the warranty to the manufacturer not backing part of it up themselves. And they only offer a 3-year warranty. What is better, a manufacturer-backed 5-year/100,000 mile comprehensive warranty plus a 2-year bonus, or the 1-year warranty offered by Ford plus a limited 2-year dealer-backed setup on top?
In any case, the Hyundai warranty is in some ways better than Kia's -- in Hyundai's case, their 5-year warranty is unlimited mileage, and manufacturer-backed. This makes it better in every conceivable way than Ford's.
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Regarding the pricing structure, compare it to the electronics market you mentioned v0n. Samsung start out as expensive as Sony or Bosch, but their products are generally heavily discounted early on. It must be said as well that Samsung has now established itself as a global brand to rival Sony, and its products are well-respected. Hyundai/Kia are also heading in that direction.
Bush is a different matter altogether, being a simple "hard discounter", buying in cheap imports as cheaply as possible and branding them with a brand with "heritage" -- Bush is a bit of a con by Alba Radio in all honesty -- their stuff is no better than the supermarket own-brands (so they're closer to Perodua and Tata than Kia and Skoda) but people associate Bush with good products in the dim and distant past, and think of them as a "British" product, when in reality most of their products are Turkish or Chinese designs.
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Hasn't the cee'd warranty been changed -
"Now, though, the cee'd comes with a bumper-to-bumper seven-year warranty. The reason, according to Kia, is the same as the five-year deal recently applied to the Carens - the quality of the work being done at the new Zilina factory in Slovakia."
Proving to be very popular in rest of Europe where normally only a 2-year warranty applies to most cars.
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Hasn't the cee'd warranty been changed - "Now though the cee'd comes with a bumper-to-bumper seven-year warranty. The reason according to Kia is the same as the five-year deal recently applied to the Carens - the quality of the work being done at the new Zilina factory in Slovakia."
Perhaps it's dealer specific. Kia's reckons the 7 year warranty consists of:
* 3 years/ unlimited mileage full manufacturers warranty
* 3 -5 years / 100,000 miles full manufacturers warranty
* 5 - 7 years / 100,000 miles powertrain only warranty
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Brokers are already doing the cee'd at £9495. There is also a new SR special addition with a RRP of £10495 which has alloys.
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Brokers are already doing the cee'd at £9495. There is also a new SR special addition with a RRP of £10495 which has alloys.
They do 1.4 S Cee'ds at £9495, not the 1.6 LS I was talking about. But once again, you can buy equally underpowered, poverty spec Astras, Meganes, 307s and Foci for the same ~ £9500.
> Do some reading of the thread, the warranty has changed and now covers everything for 7 years.
Not according to Kia - www.kia.co.uk/434.asp .
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Korean products always start out at similar price levels to the VW/Ford set and work their way backwards. Bear in mind that the Nissan Almera is the same -- officially the cars that were being sold for £7500 were priced at closer to ten grand.
I agree. That's why I focused on real life prices, not official figures. Brokers, dealers, discounts, whatever we call them you could go and buy Almera for £7500 and you can go and buy Focus Zetec Climate with £11,200. Which puts Kia in immediate disadvantage. It's not that I don't believe Kia couldn't make a car every bit as good as the big boys, I'm know they do, but simply because when you buy major brand you also buy into very large network of dealers, repairers, OEM parts and standardized accessories. Something that Kia simply doesn't have and cannot possibly offer at this point.
I do feel though that the criticism of the warranty is a little disingenous. Manufacturers from Ford to Renault are guilty of similar tricks from mileage-limiting the warranty to the manufacturer not backing part of it up themselves. And they only offer a 3-year warranty. What is better a manufacturer-backed 5-year/100 000 mile comprehensive warranty plus a 2-year bonus or the 1-year warranty offered by Ford plus a limited 2-year dealer-backed setup on top?
It's not the warranty I question, it's the way it's hyped. It's not 7 year warranty, dealer, manufacturer or otherwise. It's 5 year warranty on the car plus 2 year warranty on engine and gearbox. I'm grateful for them offering that and I still think it's a great offer but it's presented in misleading way - in a manner of speaking it's just like you advertised a car with 12 year warranty* (*= consists of 2 year bumper to bumper warranty, 5 year warranty on seats and 12 year body and chasis warranty).
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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It's not the warranty I question it's the way it's hyped. It's not 7 year warranty dealer manufacturer or otherwise. It's 5 year warranty on the car plus 2 year warranty on engine and gearbox. I'm grateful for them offering that and I still think it's a great offer but it's presented in misleading way - in a manner of speaking it's just like you advertised a car with 12 year warranty* (*= consists of 2 year bumper to bumper warranty 5 year warranty on seats and 12 year body and chasis warranty).
Do some reading of the thread, the warranty has changed and now covers everything for 7 years.
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Kia Ceed
>
>>>>
OH- thought you could grow your own
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I agree. That's why I focused on real life prices not official figures. Brokers dealers discounts whatever we call them you could go and buy Almera for £7500 and you can go and buy Focus Zetec Climate with £11 200. Which puts Kia in immediate disadvantage.
I agree with what you are saying but the reason the Almera was so cheap (they don't do them any more do they?) was that it was an old model. The Kia is brand-new, built in a brand-new factory, and it will take a while before the prices come down. So for now it's somewhat overpriced for the reasons you mention, but that will change.
For example, I used to own a Hyundai Accent (I know, I know). Officially it was a £9000 car, but the previous owner managed to grab it for £6200 after discount (it was a pre-reg model with 20 miles on the clock). I see no reason to believe the Kia won't be the same.
In any case I see this car as a bargain for two years down the line :)
Incidentally, on paper at least the 1.4 isn't as underpowered as its rivals -- its 104bhp, as powerful as some competitors' 1.6 models, and 42% more powerful than the VW 1.4. In practice it may not be as simple as that, but it's entirely possible that the 1.4 is a better drive than the Megane, Astra etc it's pitched against due to the extra power.
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I've got a 1.6 at the moment actually Jase on the three day test drive.
I'm not sure it'll be a big depreciator - the Rio still goes for north of £5k at nearly two years old, or around 1/3 less than new. It's actually pretty pleasant to drive - it's understeer city and it's nowhere near as grippy or a Focus or even a 306 if you're pressing on, but it's not a car for people who want to press on. (It drives much better than a Mk IV Golf though, so it's hardly a bad car in that respect).
The interior is well laid out although the frugal people who buy this sort of car will generally wish that the air con was easier to switch off. The driving position is good, visibility is fine for me (especially if you use the mirrors rather than over the shoulder although even that's not too bad), it's reasonably spacious and comfortable. In fact, it's reasonable in most respects and outstanding in none apart from the warranty.
The engine (120? bhp 1.6) doesn't feel noticeably more powerful than a 1.6 Focus even though the gearing is quite short. It's also quite noisy and harsh - but it could also be very tight with only 600 mileson the clock.
It won't depreciate like an Accent, or be priced as cheaply - although already there is an SR special edition that knocks £1,300 off the base price of the petrol GS models and discounts are slowly coming through, so my £12,500 1.6GS is looking more like an £10,500 car in the real world and that can only get better. With the seven year warranty, for older, private buyers who aren't looking for the last word in dynamics, the car starts to make sense as an ownership proposition even if it's only worth £1.5k in 2014 - if it's £1k cheaper new than the equivalent Focus, depreciation will be roughly the same over that long period, with a better warranty and an easier buying experience with less haggling.
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In any case I see this car as a bargain for two years down the line :)
To be honest that's what I'm quietly hoping for - given reasonable price tag Cee'd would be perfect replacement for our workhorse car. It would have to be Estate, as hatchback really has not enough boot space by today's standards. Estates will be launched for later this year I was told.
I just hope Kia will play this card well and won't aim too high this time and the car won't become another overpriced market sector non entity - like Mitsubishi Lancer, Suzuki Liana or Chevy Lacetti.
Incidentally, on paper at least the 1.4 isn't as underpowered as its rivals -- its 104bhp, as powerful as some competitors' 1.6 models, and 42% more powerful than the VW 1.4. In practice it may not be as simple as that
It's true. However, keep in mind 1.4 Cee'd's kerb weight is only 9kg less than that of a Ford Mondeo LX and whooping 200kg more than 1.4 litre Astra...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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