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Sorry, just to add, I couldn't find anyhting exactly like mine (it was a 156 GTA) so did a similar thing and found some close matches. Meeting them half way is about the best you'll probably get.
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I just spoke to the insurance company on the phone. Their take on the settlement process is roughly as follows:
1. we (the insurer) get someone to value the car;
2. we let you (the insured) know how much we think it's worth;
3. you get a cheque in the post.
According to them, we don't get a say in this whole process. Is this normal? I'd rather this whole thing not go ahead until all the involved parties are happy with the settlment terms (which I am not).
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According to them, we don't get a say in this whole process.
reminds me of a phrase made famous by mandy-rice-davis.
www.perfect.co.uk/2006/03/a-sunny-day
Is this normal?
not unless you live in a dictatorship. what do you think the ombudsman is for?
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I've just looked at the Glass's trade in price via the Vauxhall website, that gives values roughly between 2000 - 2400 depending on condition, so the insurance company is offering 50% above trade in value, which sounds par for the course IMHO.
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> the insurance company is offering 50% above trade in value
I am not looking to trade in the car. I am looking to get where I was before the accident (which was due to someone else's fault). For this, I need to buy a car. The cheapest I could find a car broadly similar to mine is £4K.
BTW, could you post the linke to the online price checker you used? Thanks
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.. could you post the linke to the online price checker you used..
that would take away a source of income for honestjohn - as i am sure he would rather you use the glass's link on the left hand column. (however, the clue as to find the other link is in spancam's post above ! )
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If the cheapest comparable car you could get were £4k you'd have my sympathy.
I don't know where you are in the country but there are numerous automatic Foci with low mileage within haggle room of £3,300.
Most of them have more than 33k on the clock of course but the life expectancy and value of a 99 Focus with 60k on the clock is not going to be measurably less than yours: at the sub 5k annual mileage the car has averaged it'll still take twelve years to clock up 120k, by which time it would be 20 years old and only then would mileage be an issue.
I know that you may feel that you have the same right as any seller to charge a premium for the low mileage of your car but the flip side is that rarity does not equal an excess over market value.
(I'm not urging you to abandon your argument because I do think you have a shot of getting more money, but a car like this: tinyurl.com/2bupsc is broadly similar mileage, higher spec and newer for £600 more than your offer before you manage to knock a bit off for cash).
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DavidHM - many thanks for the well thought-out argument.
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Am I correct in thinking that the car remains our property until settlement has been agreed?
The insurance company is very keen to dispose of the car (to the point of being very pushy about it), and I am uneasy about letting them do this until we've agreed the settlement fiigure.
Where do I stand?
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stand your ground its your ace
you are lucky its not in a holding compound and you get 24 hours notice to remove your belongings
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Well, the car is in a garage somewhere (with our belongings still in it). We've not seen it since it's been taken away from the scene of the accident.
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You need to get your belongings asap. Same think happened to me, my car was in a fenced off compound next to the recovery garage and by the time I got there the next day the my expensive ICE was in the process of being stripped, I questioned this to the recovery firm and they blamed this on thieves which I did not believe at the time as the compound had guard dogs!. When I met with the insurers rep for a valuation at the site he indicated that there would be a deduction for the spare wheel being missing ! the recovery depot owner, after being questioned about this said he had taken it out for safekeeping........of course he was lying.
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This goes back to my earlier question. Does the car remain my property until settlement has been agreed?
Wouldn't anyone taking stuff from the car without my permission, or disposing of the wreck be committing an offence?
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Oh, and I assume that the insurance co telling me "you're going to get £X" doesn't qualify as an agreement.
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I assume that the insurance co telling me "you're going to get £X" doesn't qualify as an agreement.
No, just make sure you don't cash *any* cheques until the entire amount is agreed without reading very carefully.
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> No, just make sure you don't cash *any* cheques until the entire amount is agreed without reading very carefully.
The insurance company have conducted a second valuation. As a result, they have revised the figure upwards, citing some features of the car they failed to take into account the first time round. Sounds fair enough.
Now, I would have accepted the new figure if not for two things:
1) They said they've made deductions (worth £250) for bodywork damage, the most significant of which was actually sustained during the crash! They claim it looks like a typical car park dent (which it may well do, complicating things). However, I know for a fact that it wasn't there when I got in the car 5 minutes before the collision.
2) They've sent us a cheque. However, the figure on the cheque differs from both amounts discussed so far (it's less).
A couple of questions:
1) What should I do with the cheque, return it or sit on it until we manage to come to some sort of agreement?
2) I think the adjustment for bodywork damage is unfair, and I would like to get them to revise it (any reasonable adjustment would do). Can I ask the insurance company to provide the full breakdown of how they arrived at the settlement figure, and expect them to oblige? Their approach so far has been "take it or go to the Ombudsman". They haven't even bothered to include any sort of letter with the cheque.
Any thoughts?
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are you claiming loss of vehicle costs/hire car costs etc from them whilst they muck about?
have you had to change plans for your annual holiday/family wedding/christening etc?
at the end of the day they're 'trying it on' so that you'll accept a lower offer. As long as you don't get greedy stick to your guns and ask when they are going to provide you with a hire car that matches the one that was written off, so that you have transport whilst they agree to pay you a fair price.
Some private companies provide hire cars and then charge the insurance co. direct.....3 years ago i had a C200K Mercedes for a month........never paid a dime for it.... All the insurance companies know this and presumably don't want a 2 week (or more) Ford Focus hire car charge as it will well outweigh their £250 shenanigans for 'previous damage'.
as for them forcing your hand..........IT'S YOUR CAR, not theirs.........until you agree to settle and you agree to give it up to them.
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> are you claiming loss of vehicle costs/hire car costs etc from them whilst they muck about?
I am going to claim the cost of upgrading the courtesy car to a Corsa for 2 weeks, and a couple of other small bits and bobs. This comes out of third party's insurance anyway, right?
> As long as you don't get greedy stick to your guns...
Quite frankly, I am quite fed up with all this, and want to get it over and done with. However, the insurance company is not being very cooperative. As I mentioned elsewhere on the thread, they now claim that they've lost all our stuff that was in the car (miraculously, except the tax disc, which was the most valuable thing there anyway).
Let me rephrase that. They don't claim that they've lost all our stuff that was in the car. They have the guts to suggest that the stuff wasn't there in the first place ("Do you have any witnesses who can confirm that you actually had those maps in your car, Sir?")
Unbelievable.
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As I mentioned elsewhere on the thread they now claim that they've lost all our stuff thatwas in the car (miraculously except the tax disc which was the most valuable thing there anyway). Let me rephrase that. They don't claim that they've lost all our stuff that was in the car. They have the guts to suggest that the stuff wasn't there in the first place ("Do you have any witnesses who can confirm that you actually had those maps in your car Sir?")
they are being right clowns aren't they.........how many people do you know drive around in a car without anything in it whatsoever.....unless maybe a newly picked up hire car
my car is fairly sparse and tidy because i'm like that.....but it has 6 or 7 CDs, 2 maps, pens, sunglasses.....brolly& barbour jacket (old) in boot,..... jump leads, torch, reflective jacket, screen wash etc in boot under floor compartment etc,etc,etc
maybe warning shot across the bows about small claims court.....don't know much about the procedures, but others on here do
it sounds like they have failed to look after your property and need to recompense you for the loss
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And don't forget the tax disc.
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> And don't forget the tax disc.
Oddly enough, the tax disc is the only thing that I've been able to recover so far. We made an appointment at the garage to come and collect our stuff, but the insurance company has moved the vehicle to their salvage yard before the appointment date.
I've given them a list of everything that was in the car, but they claim the car is empty except for the tax disc. It's all rather bizarre.
There was nothing particularly valuable in the car, but I would still quite like to get my stuff back. :-(
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And one more question - what happens to our insurance policy, which had 11.5 months to run at the time of the accident? I don't suppose we are entitled to any sort of partial refund of the premium (even though the accident was someone else fault)?
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Have you claimed on your policy or the 3rd party's?
If claim is on 3rd party's then your policy stands.
If claim on your own policy it is likely the policy lapses - however if it does the 3rd party insurer should re-imburse you for losses on your policy.
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Have you claimed on your policy or the 3rd party's?
the answer to above question by falkirk-bairn is the key.
yes, it is a diference which joe-public often seems not to realise. they seem to think that their own insurance company's primary purpose is to protect them whereas their primary purpose is to minimise their losses.
Can I ask the insurance company to provide the full breakdown of how they arrived at the settlement figure, and expect them to oblige? Their approach so far has been "take it or go to the Ombudsman". They haven't even bothered to include any sort of letter with the cheque.
you have to do all your research and know your rights and responsibilites first.
and yes, if you wag the ombudsman stick, you have to be prepared to use it.
Quite frankly, I am quite fed up with all this, and want to get it over and done with.
oh well, what is the point asking any more questions then, is there any?
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> Have you claimed on your policy or the 3rd party's?
It is my insurance company who are handling this. The fault is very obviously third party's, although last time I asked they were yet to admit liability.
I've never looked into this in any detail, but my understanding of how car insurance works is as follows:
1) if it's my fault, my insurance co pays to both parties; I lose no-claims discount; my policy lapses.
2) if it's third party's fault, their insurance pays my insurance co, who pays me. There's no impact on my no-claims discount. The question is - does my policy lapse?
Please feel free to correct any misunderstandings :)
Also, are you suggesting I should not have involved my insurance co at all, and went directly to third-party insurers?
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>>Please feel free to correct any misunderstandings :)
I don't see why your policy would lapse, a year's insurance ia a year's insurance, irrespective of how many claims you make during the year?
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excuse me, but i am a bit rushed so i shall give very quick short replies.
The fault is very obviously third party's, although last time I asked they were yet to admit liability.
therin lies the source of all your problems. you have claimed on your comprehensive policy. your insurance company is paying out for your insured losses as insured by them. anything extra over and above that: you will have to claim direct from the third party either direct or use your legal-expenses cover should you have bought that as part of your policy.
1) if it's my fault, .....Please feel free to correct any misunderstandings :) there are a lot of previous posts on this site (especially by no_fm2r) that explain how insurance works.
Also, are you suggesting I should not have involved my insurance co at all, and went directly to third-party insurers?
personally, that is how i would start off (actually by sending my initial claim to the third party and then to their insurance company as alloweed by the latest eu legislation) and, depending on how much confidence i have in my own insurance company, that is how i would finish it off too.
spamcan61:I don't see why your policy would lapse, a year's insurance ia a year's insurance, irrespective of how many claims you make during the year?
i suggest you read your policy. you may find that it covers your car for the period of up to one year, until the car is no more, kaput, finito, dead, during that one year.
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spamcan61:I don't see why your policy would lapse, a year's insurance ia a year's insurance, irrespective of how many claims you make during the year?
i suggest you read your policy. you may find that it covers your car for the period of up to one year, until the car is no more, kaput, finito, dead, during that one year.
Well I wrote two cars off in a fairly short space of time a few years back, in both cases the policy carried on with the new car, but fair point, I haven't read my current policy.
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i suggest you read your policy. you may find that it covers your car for the period of up to one year, until the car is no more, kaput, finito, dead, during that one year.
> Well I wrote two cars off in a fairly short space of time a few years back, in both cases the policy carried on with the new car, but fair point, I haven't read my current policy.
I've just read the policy document quite carefully. It doesn't suggest that the policy ends when the car is no more. Neither does it hint at the possibility of transferring the policy to another vehicle. It does mention that I can cancel the policy, but any refund is predicated upon there having been no claims, which doesn't apply to me.
I'll give them a call tomorrow to see what they say...
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IIRC the only stipulation is that should you crash the car and subsequently claim, you can't then cancel the policy and ask for a refund on the remaining months.
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Re the valuation are you sure the valuer accouted for your car being an auto, there are very few auto Foci around and they have a good reputation (as HJ will agree) so are at a premium to buy. Noticed this in HJ's recent auction report:
Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec auto, 2002/52, 21k miles £4,700s
That would be as much as £6500 on a forecourt.
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Also how badly damaged is the car, could you take the offer, buy ity back for very little and get it repaired. The down side would be that it would be on the system as a cat D or C.
A mate had a minor prang on his bike, not his fault, it was written off, the ins co offered IIRC £2600 which was fair, he bought it back for £750 and repaired it perfectly for another £750 ish so is £1000 + better but for the fact that is it Cat D on the register.
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> Re the valuation are you sure the valuer accouted for your car being an auto
No, I am not. The insurance co provided very little detail of their valuation process. They did value the car twice (by two different people I hope), so it seems unlikely that the fact it's an automatic would be overlooked.
> Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec auto, 2002/52, 21k miles £4,700s
In fairness, my car was a lot older than this (1999/V-reg), so a direct comparison could be misleading.
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I think it's unlikely that I'll be able buy an identical car for the amount of money offered by the insurance co.
However, pursuing this further is time consuming and quite stressful.
Therefore, I've resigned myself to the fact that I am going to be out of pocket due to someone else falling asleep at the wheel. This last bit is a speculation, but how else does one spontaneously lose control of their vehicle on a straight road in good visibility, end up on the wrong side of the road, and causes a multi-car accident?
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> Re the valuation are you sure the valuer accouted for your car being an auto No I am not. The insurance co provided very little detail of their valuation process. They did value the car twice (by two different people I hope) so it seems unlikely that the fact it's an automatic would be overlooked.
Well make sure they revalue it then, an auto will be worth more. If it is substantially damaged externally the assessor may have not got closer to it than 10ft and simply noted the reg and model, in the days of analogue odometers he would have checked that and noticed it was an auto though with a digital one he may well take yours or the recoverer / body shop's word on the mileage.
> Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec auto 2002/52 21k miles £4 700s In fairness my car was a lot older than this (1999/V-reg) so a direct comparison could be misleading.
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My point is that a four/five year old one might be £6500 on the forecourt, ok yours is 3 years older though the mileage is not much higher.
Perhaps youir local dealer or Ford indy could put in writing what they think you car was worth or waht it would cost to replace.
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