The neighbor is very ignorant. We have expressed our concern in the past and he ignores and continued to trade his cars at home. We get alls sorts nuisance, his customer knock on our doors and complain about cars. I told its my neighbor not me who sold him the car. I hope you get what I mean...
We have even complaint to the local council, and they're useless because the council don't work at the weekend to investigate. Apparently the trader only invites his clients to turn up to look and test the cars in the evening and weekends. So you could imagine you could hear a lot of cars revving/nuisance. The traders clients even take interests in our cars (go around our cars and trying opening doors to see if they could get in to see inside etc). Now I have a small sign in my windscreen says "Not for sale".
We were even more fuming when we returned home on Friday to discover that our drives and garage were flooded with dirt. Apparently the neighbour called in a professional clean his oily drive, When we knocked on his door and asked what has happened, he simply replied that he cleaned his drive and didn't noticed so much water had gone into our drive and garage. No appology whatsoever. Why people are so inconsiderate for their neighours?
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It seems that you have tried all of the reasonable simple steps that you can take, so how about you install a six foot fence along the dividing line - that'll keep him and his customers off your property.
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Agreed ! He doesn't seem to care about how he treats you or your property, so why should you worry about his reaction to a fence being put up.
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Errect a wire link fence suspended by angle posts, strained at each end by the proper strainers.Comes in various heights-usually the lowest is 3 feet (1 Metre). you can grow climbing plants along it and is forgiving to car door opening so avoiding dings. Will not stop water entering your drive though, bare soil along the fence is good for this as I have between me and nieghbours.When the plants grow it looks fairly attractive.
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rustbucket (the original)
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Is there anything in your deeds about whether you can or can't erect a fence?
Also, to erect a fence on the boundary line you are going to have to damage, if only temporarily, your neighbour's drive. Will he mind?!
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i sympathise with you, here are some suggestions, make a note of the car/s he is selling, look them up on autotrader website, see if it says trade, if not , then take note of a few that appear then report him to autotrader. Build a fence, but importantly not one that his customers/schmucks can lean on ,and make it a substantial one, if your sure of your boundary i know of no law that stops you,[except for the height limit] besides its far easier to apologise to the powers that be than get permision!
Now the next one may sound silly, but will work, if he is selling them private, bob out of the house when someone turns up to view, be as distracting as you can be without getting into trouble, offering lines like = "he goes through some cars my neighbour " or " flipping heck, you will be putting car sale flags up next mr neighbour, with the amount of cars youve sold this month " or ask him while a customers there " do you give a warranty when you sell em from home then ?" all tactics that will destroy his image.
you could also report him to the council for running a business from home and not paying the correct rates.
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Thanks guys for helping on this topic. Apparently we have been living in this state of grief for the past 10 yrs.
I have two options:
(1) Fit railings (fencing) - this should stop most of the damage and cross boundary problem;
(2) Place some very large rocks (fixed with mortar spelling??) alongside the the boundary line.
I would definately prefer option (1). I wonder if I could get some legal help from the Citizen Advisory Bureau (CAB) to confirm what I can do and what I can't do in terms of the boundary line. Or can you guys suggest a body that I could talk to?
As for option (2), this will not protect my cars and property. The trader and his customers still be able to get on my drive to get in/out of their cars.
I will try and gather / document the cars and time of his customers visiting him. The Custom and Excise Dept maybe interested and I would need it for my record in case this saga turns into a civil dispute. However, I know we are not making this up, because we have another neighbour that had expressed concern with the amount of customers and cars turned around. But he is lucky because he lives on the next house away - so at least his car and property doesn't get damage.
We have also considered putting up a video camera to capture the activities with the trading. Are we going over the top? Sometime we ask ourselves, after all they're our neighbour. That's why we haven't done anything about it for the last 10 yrs.
Apology for the long story....I'm just getting rid of my aggression, so sorry folks for those who reads this threads.
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As another poster says you need to check your deeds as to any issues regarding the erecting of a fence. Generally planning will allow you a fence up to two meters high but there may be special measures with your Local Authority. Give the Planning Sept a ring.
Trading Standards may well be interested from this home trader.
I was thinking about video cameras myself. Make sure that if you do this that you put Data Protection signage up.
If you want to be totally up front about what you're doing, diarise your experiences and confront him with it. Your enjoyment of your property is being undermined and you may have a civil case.
On a practical note, the rocks would be a more aesthetic solution, make sure they are totally visible when laid (possibly painted white ?), rocks are far more unforgiving to M5 bodywork and far more resilient to the occasional slap than a fence or railing.
CAB can be very helpful with stuff like this.
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Hi Pug;
A good point about talking to the Trading Standard, but under what basis? I haven't bought a car from them and have problem. Please expand and explain so when I talk to the Trading Standard I have a ground to stand.
Perfect.
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If he's trading from home unlawfully they may be interested, especially if he pretends to be a private seller. I don't know what kind of area you live in but I assume that it is residential from the description you give. He himself may be in breach of planning regs for trading from home.
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If you can link "private" ads to his home phone number - TS might find that useful.
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We live in a residential area and is a quiet spot. But things get spoiled when his trading starts.
However, I will give the Trading Standard a ring and see what they say.
The thing is I can't identify the car he is selling, its mainly American super gas guzzler type. Make very loud noise, infact louder than the boy racer modification type of cars (if you know what I mean??).
I know he got an X5 for sure, maybe I need to do some work around searching on Auto Trader to link the X5 and other American cars he is selling. I will try and take a picture and need to go through the Auto Trader section.
As for one of the Poster saya, check his home telephone number, I think he is no longer trading using his home phone. (I think he uses his mobile).
I think when we complain to the trader at one time, he say he has permission to trade on site or do what he wants on his drive. He said his property is a Freehold. I know this can't be right, having Freehold doesn't mean he can do what he wants. Regarding to the planning permission subject, I think I should be asking the council to see if the neighbour got the permission to trade cars on a regular basis.
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Councils can be very helpful with things like this, especially if Trading Standards are getting complaints about moody motors. Freehold means nothing, I have a freehold property, doesn't mean I can suddenly start a brothel.
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Hi Pug:
Thank you for your reply.
I just posted on another website with the problem I'm having. The other guys are suggesting to put very LARGE flower pots on the boundary line. This sounds a good idea, I don't think I need planning permission for this and surely it will act as a decorative object.
Whats your though on this?? Is there anything I need to consider with option, any pitfalls etc..
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I will be back soon...I'm on my way to the Garden Centre to find the largest flower pots.......
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Large flower pots can be expensive and if your nighbour is of the type will get broken too easily a fence is more appropriate me thinks.
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rustbucket (the original)
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Assuming you are not in a conservation area or it's not a listed building etc then you can install a fence up to 2M high (1M if it borders a highway) without planning consent. Flowerpots you can do what you like with, but they are easily moved!
However, the neighbour would require planning consent for trading/operating a business from home, and on a residental street almost certainly wouldn't get it for car trading. Have you made a complaint to the planning enforcement team? Put your complaint in writing and focus on the reasons for your complaint, ie. the impact it is having - revving engines, increase in traffic, customers coming onto your property, people parking in the street and blocking the road to the detriment of highway safety etc. Enforcement teams get lots of bitchy complaints about people doing this, that and the other and a lot of them are a waste of time for all concerned, but if you can show it is having a negative impact on the area then they should do something. Only trouble is planning laws are basically unenforceable if the unauthorised use has been occuring for more than 4 years, so you should point out this has only started recently. If you can get other neighbours to complain this should give your complaint higher priority.
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Quinny100's comments above about planning are mostly accurate. However, you need to check the original permission for your house (if built after 1948) as there may be a condition restricting 'permitted development' rights, in which case you would need planning permission.
Normally the use of the premises for an unauthorised use becomes unenforcable after 10 years as it then can be proved to be lawful. If he has been operating that use for more than 10 years and it has grown over the years, the Council may be able to enforce and reduce the use to the level that existed 10 years ago. 4 years normally relates to 'development' or 'operations,' which doesn't appear to be the case here.
I would suggest that anything between your house and the highway should not exceed 1m in height or you may need planning permission (subject to Quinny100's comments and my first paragraph). You could build a fence or a wall, although I would suggest that if it looks attractive and goes the whole way around your garden, it will seem more plausible as something you might have done to look good, rather than something to annoy your neighbour. A wall would be more solid and look better than a metal fence.
In any case, I would suggest writing to the Council with all your concerns and ideas, addressed to the Head of Development Control, requesting that the enforcement team investigate and confirming whether or not you can install the 1m high wall/fence without requiring planning permission. Most (probably all) Council's investigate complaints without naming the complainant - although it is often fairly obvious, particularly if you have spoken to the neighbour before.
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OK some simple checks to do: -
1. Check with deeds as to whether each of you has a right of way over a part of the other's drive. If not, you are permitted to stop his access over your land, and a fence erected so that it does not touch his land is a solution. You must not go over his land at all. This may mean that you reduce the width of your drive slightly. Usual planning requirements are for a fence no higher than 2m, and a wrought iron fence or a chain link fence with not effect visibilty, although I would reduce the height for the final couple of metres close to the back of footpath.
2. Check with the planning department if he has planning permission to trade in the sale of cars from the site. If not, then advise the local planning officer and take evidence, in terms of photos, adverts from Autotrader (web or printed) and ask them to serve an enforcement notice. They are quite hot on car traders just popping up.
3. As previously mentioned, speak to Trading Standards, especially if the adverts do not indicate that he is a trader.
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get a bag of postcrete concrete put it in the bottom of the largest plantpot you can find and add water, sets in 5 mins then add topsoil and some cheap flowers , they wont lift it out of the way !
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talk to planning asap.
there is a get out that if change of use (ie commercial instead of residential) is done without anyone objecting for x years it becomes unactionable for enforcement - 10years rings a bell.
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Adverse:
Good point. I will take up to the Planning asap.
I still haven't gone to the Garden Centre yet, I was distracted by the trader, whilst I was taking picture of his American car, he just came back on his drive with another car (a Porcshe this time).
Anyway must go to the Garden Centre now...
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This person sounds like a real nightmare and he clearly does not care about you and your property.
I suspect Revenue and Customs might be interested if he is trading without paying full tax. Stopping him trading is one way to solve your problem. Keep a record of the cars that appear in his drive way, and try and establish how many cars he advertises. Maybe he advertises on ebay or Loot, or elsewhere? Ebay would be ideal as you could then record how many cars he has sold.
Check the deeds of your house and see what it says about the boundary, and whether or not there should be a fence on the boundary (there might be a requirement to maintain one). You should be able to find advice on the internet about boundaries and the legal obligations. It is complex and often leads to disputes to the delight of lawyers. I think that to erect a fence on the boundary you need your neighbour's permission, but you can erect a small fence on your side of the boundary, and he cannot stop you. Do not believe what fencers tell you. I was selling my late mother's house 200 miles away in Devon, and the neighbour's fencer removed a fence I had erected on our side of the boundary, and then moved their fence 8" towards our house. I suspect fencers only care about making money.
I would have thought that if he is moving cars onto your drive then he is trespassing, and the oil and dirt would count as damage. Hence you might have reason to take him to a small claims court to claim damages. I know nothing about the law though so take these comments with a pinch of salt.
I would not get plant pots as he will move or damage them, though damage would allow you to claim for compensation, as long as they were on your property, and as long as you take records.
I would make a note each time he has a new car in his driveway, and record the registration plate, and take photographs of them. Also take photographs of any cars on your drive, and any dirt and/or oil. Ask him to clean your driveway, and record his response (which we can all guess). I would also tell him not to trespass, and record that. Then when he trespasses again tell him not to, and record that. By recording this information you are making it easier to take action against him and also for someone such as the Revenue to determine if he is evading tax. With luck the Revenue can trace the current owner of the cars he has sold, and hence verify that he was the seller.
You could always talk to a solicitor, but they charge a lot - £200 per hour is typical - so you could end up paying thousands and still not solve your problem given that such disputes are complex.
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Install cctv cameras to prove the nuisence caused to you and use the recordings as evidence to stop him trading.
Local planning will have a leaflet to advise you about the fence
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