I'm worried about having to pay out a cost that's difficult to determine (a few hundred possibly), yes, but not angry.
I don't think I paid less for the car because of the faults - the seller simply didn't bother to mention them. But I didn't walk away on that basis because I knew I was getting the car cheaply.
Having had the car checked out by my regular mechanic (admittedly after the event) the car is basically sound. As for the car being stolen or accident repaired, the HPI check was clear (and if it's not, I've got insurance for that having done the check with all details such as VIN and V5 reference number). If an accident wasn't recorded for some reason the bonnet has stone chips and the engine compartment has a patina of age and loads of stickers applied in the factory, showing the build date, which make the odds of it having had a front-end collision virtually nil.
If the car had been a real lemon it would have gone through the ring more or less at what I paid for it so I never felt (and still don't feel) that I was gambling with £2k, just the difference between my price and the auction price.
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Its not a dear car,the lights are easily fixable if you know what you are doing,just enjoy it.
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The mileage is quite possibly genuine. I once bought a Nissan 300ZX that had done no mileage in four years - it had sat outside in a yard! I changed all the fluids and fliters, put new sparkplugs in it and some fresh petrol. It started and ran sweetly and passed its MoT!
The electrics on the E39 are a bit complex. There are a lot of airbags, plus pretensioners. Its possibly a bad connector somewhere. There is a diagnostic connector (either 16 or 20-pin circular) and it would be quickest to get someone to read the codes.
The alternator warning lamp does not operate in the conventional sense on these cars. The engine control module monitors the alternator output and can send a signal to the instrument pack to put the light on - it doesn't just mean low charge. Again, you need to get the codes read to find out what the problem is.
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Thanks Aprilia.
Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough and this is why it is a bit more of a concern is that the second garage I took it to (after the service) did hook it up to a code reader and couldn't get the car to give up the fault codes, despite using three different versions of the software.
Now I don't know what software they were using (and even if I did I wouldn't know how to have an opinion on it) but that is why I am more concerned than I was when I got the car, when I anticipated a relatively easy fix of diagnostic + new sensor and whatever else was causing the battery light to come on.
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Were they checking the ECM, airbag ECU, or both??
For the independents, Autologic-Diagnos provide just about the best kit for BMW diagnostics. They are based in Oxford, you could call them to see if they have sold any systems to independents in your part of the world.
Normally, if the correct system is being used then failure to communicate would indicate a fault with the ECU.
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PS - you could of course go to the BMW dealer - but don't expect them to be cheap - make sure you get a quote first.
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Congratulations on the new car David!
I've just lef the BMW fold, but my god am I determined to re-join it at some point in the not too distant future.
Veyr nice looking car and having had the same engine in my 3 series I can honestly say that I think you'll be very happy with her.
Blue
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This is one for the Bangernomics thread. A friend of mine has just spent £14k on a Skoda Octavia because his Vectra needed a new clutch. The interest payments for the first couple of months of repaying finance on £14k would cover the new clutch.
£2k for a beautiful luxury motor like this BMW - why does anyone buy new?
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£2k for a beautiful luxury motor like this BMW - why does anyone buy new?
Dont knock it and be grateful they do, or your 2k motor wouldnt be available.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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There is no doubt in my mind that ?Bangernomics? is the way to go.
Given the abundance of information on the web, it is entirely possible that you could run this car on a shoestring. As for the warning light(s): If you could find the fault and fix it for little cost, that would be great, but bear in mind also, if a warning light is for a system that is not essential or for something that you can check yourself from time to time, why do you need it? Get that bulb out and use the back up system of monitoring, which is to check and monitor it yourself.
This car is a well-made, quality vehicle, sold nearly a decade ago with plenty of ?extras?, but the car is more that these, behind the electronics is a fairly competent mode of transport. If the extras don?t work and don?t have a particularly detrimental effect on the operational efficiency, isolate them and carry on. For example: I would rather have a 95% serviceable, solid, older and competent car than a newer vehicle that demands main dealer services and expertise, that depreciates at a fairly steep rate and could well be no more reliable. The only clear difference between the two could be the time you spend ?tinkering?. Your buying decision was, compared to selecting a well hammered, yet clean, 3 year old family saloon with a ?paper tiger? of a warranty from a car supermarket: Smart thinking.
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Hmm, believe me, having had a 3 series with this engine, I can assure you it's not possible to run them on a shoestring, even one that is in sound mechanical order will require a reasonable amount spending on it if you want to keep it that way!
Blue
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I'm afraid that 'bangernomics' and relatively recent BMWs just don't go together. There is too much technology that is inherent to the operation of the car. Take something like the heater unit. It is electronically controlled (both air distribution, temperature and motor speed). There are a lot of components involved. If any of these parts go wrong then you have no heater and possibly no airflow into the car. That makes the car unpleasant and possibly dangerous to use in the winter and in certain types of weather - you can't ignore a fault, you have to fix it. Similarly the emission control and engine management - it all has to work properly. The 'charge' light on the dash is actually not a conventional alternator warning light at all - its an LED - you can't remove it. Its turned on by the instrument pack in response to a signal from the engine controller. Simiarly airbag and ABS warnings cannot be ignored - there are legal, insurance and (for ABS) MoT issues. This is why these old complicated cars are cheap. If you want bangernomics then stick to the more popular and basic older cars like Vectras and Mondeo. They still have there complexities, but there are loads of cheap used parts about and plenty of expertise to fix them - plus they lack some of the bells and whistles that luxury models have.
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Airbag light could be due to "SRS Control Unit Voltage too Low" maybe related to the alternator light.
Try checking voltages with a multimeter. Check earth straps in engine compartment. Try disconneting battery ovenight too.
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Airbag light could be due to "SRS Control Unit Voltage too Low" maybe related to the alternator light. Try checking voltages with a multimeter. Check earth straps in engine compartment. Try disconneting battery ovenight too.
Yes, always worth checking system voltages. Could be something simple.
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If I'd turned up with cash and the seller hadn't pointed out in the listing that the airbag and service lights were on, I daresay I'd have walked away. Hardly inspires confidence. Does look to be a fantastic car for what you paid for it, though.
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Does look to be a fantastic car for what you paid for it though.
This is my point, sure this particular model may not be the best example to use for ?bangernomics? motoring but there is the possibility that the buyer intended to pay much more for a similar example. That could have been a mistake, as this particular car doesn't seem to be hiding any faults as opposed to a well polished and bodged up car. I could be wrong and it could be that 90% of the faults are hidden and the ones we know about are the tip of the iceberg but I doubt it. It would seem that this car is an example of: 'What you see is what you get, take it or leave it?.
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IME its nearly always the electronics that give trouble on old European cars. If you want a reliable old car then the Jap stuff tends to be a good buy. Odds and ends tend to go on them (e.g. radiators on Toyotas), but the Jap electronics usually soldier on until the bitter end. Its usally something like an engine blow-up (because of lack of servicing or sheer abuse) that kills them.
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I'm afraid that 'bangernomics' and relatively recent BMWs just don't go together. There is too much technology that is inherent to the operation of the car. Take something like the heater unit. It is electronically controlled (both air distribution temperature and motor speed).
These threads always make me think of a acquaintance who bought a not very old 7 Series for £3000. He found the heater was stuck on max temp and was getting quotes of £3000 to fix it (dash out job etc etc).
Last I heard he was driving around with the all the windows open.
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Okay... I've given in today and taken it to the main dealer.
Apart from the "service advisor" who quoted me three different labour rates I'm pretty happy.
The car went on the diagnostics just fine so it looks as though the local garage with their "£10k" diagnostic system are either incompetent or they were ripped off. Luckily they didn't charge me for the privilege of finding that out.
Meanwhile BMW have diagnosed two faulty belt harnesses and a fuse (!)
It's going to cost me £250 (two hours' labour and £60 parts). Not a bargain exactly but an independent would have been no more than £100 cheaper, would have made me wait two weeks to book the car in and I would have spent at least £20 of that in petrol and taxis/trains to sort.
The franchise is 10 minutes' walk from work and the local independents are all in the middle of nowhere.
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That's not a bad outcome then.
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Once I get the car back with no warning lights on the dash, I'll agree with you :-)
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Wait till you have to start replacing suspension parts as you will have to no old 5 series is exempt then your wallet will start hurting, its one of the main reasons why people get shut of them.
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Wait till you have to start replacing suspension parts ...
davidhm: i wouldn't worry too much about that.
cross that bridge if and when you come to it. plenty of 5 series around with a lot lot lot more over the 100k miles on them that have suspension parts feeling just as solid as the day the car was built. now if it was the 3 series, then maybe you would need to worry about suspension parts going soon after 100k.
as i have siad before, i know the heart specialist who is always warning people that everyone he sees has a heart condition, and the spine specialist osteopath who says everyone he sees has a back problem!
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Customer "Are these washing machines reliable"?
Washing machine mechanic "every time i see one its broke"
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I always wonder what makes people who clearly know so little about a subject sit at a keyboard and write rubbish. There was someone recently pontificating about Subaru's running rich and cooling the engine by dumping unburned fuel into the exhaust - absolute nonsense of course. Probably never seen under the bonnet of a Subaru.
BMW 5-series suspension is a very well known weak spot and if I pick up a car at auction with over 100k on the clock then it will either soon need work or will have already had it done. Just like Merc W-202's will wear bottom balljoints or Mk3 Mondeo's will lose their back subframe bushes.
To be fair, if you can DIY, then the BMW suspension work is pretty straightforward. Demand for the parts is strong and hence your local GSF/ECP will have them on the shelf at a reasonable price. The worry comes if you have to pay someone else to fit them. Its not a difficult job, just a bit heavy and time consuming. Make sure they use the OEM parts (usually Lemfoerder) and not the 'replacement quality' items, otherwise you'll be needing the job doing again in 25k miles.
On a '98 car with 100k+ and a recent MoT pass then I would be sure that suspension work has already been done, so you probably have nothing to worry about.
The big worry on a car of this type is major electrical system failure, which could write off the car if you need to pay someone to fault-find and fix it.
FAB BMW are good source of used E39 electrical parts if you can DIY, but you do need the knowledge to do it of course.
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Thats unfair, I have repaired every washing machine at home. And tumble dryers.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I always wonder what makes people who clearly know so little about a subject sit at a keyboard and write rubbish. ...
he he he he he. there is always one eager to be baited who cannot see the irony in thier post and is deeply psychologically flawed.. . i mean flawlessly superior.
... the heart specialist who is always warning people that everyone he sees has a heart condition, etc. etc. .... the washing machine repair man etc. etc. .... the smalltime parttime dealer cum consultant etc. etc. ...
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>> I always wonder what makes people who clearly know so little about a subject sit at a keyboard and >> write rubbish. ... he he he he he. there is always one eager to be baited who cannot see the irony in thier post and is deeply psychologically flawed.. . i mean flawlessly superior. ... the heart specialist who is always warning people that everyone he sees has a heart condition etc. etc. .... the washing machine repair man etc. etc. .... the smalltime parttime dealer cum consultant etc. etc. ...
Another valuable and informative contribution! Makes a change from posting links I guess....
When I get time I'll post you a link to a picture of the components that wear out (so you at least have some idea of what they look like - LOL!).
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I've got an e39 Touring (2000) with 72k miles and I have now arrived at replacing bits and bobs. Clutch (which not too chuffed about at 72k miles), engine mounts, front and rear suspension bits. Dealer quoting just under £2k (could have bought your 523 for that) but indy is about 25-30% cheaper
are BM's really not good for over 100k for suspension bits and is this to be expected?
was thinknig of changing car before doing repairs, but as the car isn't worth all that much and runs very sweetly, I thought shelling out (lets say) £2k is cheaper than buying another car and taking a hit on the depreciation. Bought it at 10k miles/1year and reckon that it will be good for another 5-10 years
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are BM's really not good for over 100k for suspension bits and is this to be expected?
It's not a case of 'not good for', because 100k is a heck of mileage if you really think about it. But parts go wrong and wear out on all cars and you have to be realistic about running costs and repairs. The problem is that 'enthusiasts' (for whatever make and model) tend to be a bit blind to shortcomings. The suspension parts on the E39 (and also the 7-series) are bit on the lightweight side for the size and weight of the car - that's all. For me its not a big problem because as I said I can replace them easily with a few spanners and socket set. For the owner who has to pay someone else to do the job then it needs to be factored into the ownership equation - or at least be a primary area for pre-purchase checking. Simply saying that they don't go wrong is stupid.
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PS - your rear suspension bits will probably be the subframe mounts - that's a slightly tricky job. If engine mounts are gone then get them to check the gearbox mount carefully, especially as its a manual, because that usually goes first (manual lever bobs about a lot as you ease on and off the throttle).
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Aprilia - that great - many thanks
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"I always wonder what makes people who clearly know so little about a subject sit at a keyboard and write rubbish. "
Former Politicians, maybe?
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Former Politicians maybe?
Is he really? That would explain a lot.
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..before doing repairs, but as the car isn't worth all that much and runs very sweetly, ... ... and reckon that it will be good for another 5-10 years
angelman - you reckon right. as i said " ...cross that bridge if and when you come to it. plenty of 5 series around with a lot lot lot more over the 100k miles on them that have suspension parts feeling just as solid as the day the car was built. ..."
so called experts might post a picture of two of a failed heart, but don't let that worry you unecessarily.
that is my opinion. honestjohn has no rules about who can or cannot use a keyboard. but "the rules" do say this ( i am an expert at posting links so here is one) :
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=33...1
i now wait in anticipation of plenty of e39 owners here to post their sorry sad tales of woe.
come on michaelr, and others, tell us of all the things that have gone wrong with your electrics and electronics and suspensions.
( p.s. the livelihood and manhood of the righteous one is not under threat. )
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>> I now wait in anticipation of plenty of e39 owners here to post their sorry sad tales of woe.
:)
bleeding e39 - wiring harness loom rubbed through and shorted out sending too manyvolts to the injectors blowing all 6 of them £2.1k bill less 40% good-will. Pah - call that German efficiency?
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This is an interesting thread to stumble upon, for several reasons. In 2000 I got taken with the idea of getting a BMW and rather foolishly bumbled into a BMW showroom without really knowing what I was looking for. The end result of this was the purchase of a late 1997 520i with 60,000 miles on it (a 30,000mile a year car in other words). I admit that I was rather seduced by the nice showroom, the smooth salesman and of course the lovely styling of the car. I think I paid far too much for the car (more than I could really afford). But it did feel good driving away in a BMW!!!
The car did not completely live up to my expectations. I made the mistake of buying a manual and the gearbox had a fault on 3rd. Every morning it would crunch when I changed into 3rd. I left things too long before complaining and so when I went back to the dealer they claimed it was wear and tear and not covered by the warranty. The repair was quoted at more than £1200 so I lived with it. A few other things went wrong including the drivers door latch breaking internally and the radiator joint cracking and leaking. I was told this was part of a bad batch and it was replaced for free. The car always had a 'hunt' to its idle and this could never be sorted out, but it was OK once the throttle was pressed a little. It needed several extra parts during servicing including a waterpump and a joint in the steering linkage. After two years I sold the car privately to a fellow from Warrington who wanted one to convert it to LPG. It was a nice car to drive in many ways, but not as special or as reliable as I expected and certainly not cheap to run.
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Michael's vehicle history is well documented on this and (particularly) another forum. He will know what I'm talking about. I also thought Aprilia's comment was at least as applicable to Andy Bairsto, the world's most negative man. No doubt he'll be along to tell me that my car is only worth £800 at auction.
To be fair I've priced the suspension bits in case anything starts giving trouble and have a pretty good idea of what my mechanic would charge me. If and when they start giving trouble, I'll cope with the likely cost. The parts are marginally cheaper than the equivalent ones on my Pug 306, which I did have to pay for. So far everything's fine and my very thorough and extremely cheap mechanic has been under the car and checked it over as part of a service.
(He's cheap enough that he's supplied and fitted parts for me on occasion for less than ECP's retail price of the part alone).
As for qxman... third gear is perfectly smooth, the driver's door latch is pretty happy and the car really doesn't appear to be losing any coolant, nor does the idle hunt at all. So either those problems aren't typical or I am lucky, touch wood.
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David,
Enjoy the blinking thing, take each day as it comes don't be put off by too much pipe sucking.
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David Enjoy the blinking thing take each day as it comes don't be put off by too much pipe sucking.
Ehh bah gum YOu were lucky, I had reynault once , it exlploded and took out the entire street it did.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I was not seeking to alarm anyone, but just reporting my experiences. I am sure others will have had better luck than me!
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i now wait in anticipation of plenty of e39 owners here to post their sorry sad tales of woe. come on michaelr and others tell us of all the things that have gone wrong with your electrics and electronics and suspensions.
Touch wood, I've not had any electronic or suspension issues yet.
I've had 3 issues with mine:
a) Transmission replacement under warranty as box was slightly stiff getting into 5th
b) Propshaft replacement under warranty as centre bearing was worn slightly (only symptom was a 'tink' as you pulled away)
c) Replacement radiator
The first two were, I suspect, my local dealer taking advantage of the genoristy of the BMW warranty department. And hey, who is going to say no to replacement major parts for free? I've had all the bushes etc inspected by the main dealer who noted they were all fine.
All in all, I adore the car. It's absolutely fantastic.
It's a 2001/51 530i Sport Manual for those who don't know, with the odometer reading the wrong side of 100k ;)
I'm under no illusions as to the complexity and the potential for disaster that come with E39 ownership. I have a reserve budget for repair costs for this very reason.
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..I'm under no illusions as to the complexity and the potential for disaster that come with E39 ownership. I have a reserve budget for repair costs for this very reason.
and that is just what every prudent owner of a car with over 100k miles should do, whether it is british, german, french, american, italian, spanish, korean, chinese, or even, dare is say it, japanese.
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