X-reg Nissan Primera 1.8S hatchback, QG18DE engine.
OK, here goes.
Primera needed a new clutch, as it was dragging (difficult to engage gear when stationary). Got a quote from my usual (reliable) back-street garage, £280 inc £140 for the part.
Anyway, I instead bought a clutch mail order from a motor factor in Wakefield. This is a Comline part. £80 saved, thinks I. Hah! Hands the car over to the garage, they fit the clutch. All simple enough so far.
Phone them up this morning, the whole thing has gone pear-shaped. They say they fitted the clutch, drove the car a couple of hundred yards down the road, all OK until there's a loud "ping" and the clutch is U/S. They're not going to know what the problem is until Tuesday when they can get hold of another clutch and see what the problem is with the car. However they're speculating that it's the cheap pattern part that's to blame, either one of the springs in the flywheel or one of the fingers on the pressure plate has sheared or otherwise popped out, preventing the clutch from functioning. There is now apparently a rattly sound coming from the unit, although I haven't heard this for myself.
This has left me in a slightly awkward position because I'm going to end up having to pay for two lots of labour, and two clutches, and claim back on the dodgy one, assuming it's that -- of course it could be the gearbox that's gone but I really don't want to think about that right now.
Couple of questions:
1) What is the likelihood of something like this happening? I'd have thought that if enough pressure was placed on a clutch to force something to break, it's more likely that it's been fitted incorrectly. Proving that is going to be hard I would imagine.
2) Comline's warranty excludes labour charges, but I think they are liable if there is a manufacturing defect severe enough to cause the whole thing to break within a mile of being fitted. I'd have also thought that something like this would be common knowledge if it's a problem with the pattern part, yet thousands of these things are sold.
Nightmare. Why did I have to break the Hyundai?
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Firstly, this is always the danger when you supply parts to be fitted; you have to stand the warranty cost etc. If the garage had supplied the parts they would be responsible for their costs.
Secondly, until the clutch is out and investigated its difficult to say what/where the fault is. They are not the worst car to do so would doubt if its a fitting error but it is possible. If in doubt, when the "faul;ty" clutch is out take it for a 2nd opinion at another garage/motor factor.
Thirdly, if the unit is "faulty" then I would think you have some claim against the supplier but really don't know what your rights are. Others may be able to help better.
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As Yorkiebar says, you will have to pay the garage for the labour, then try and persuade the clutch manufacturer to pay you. They'll give you the old 'we've got to send it away to the manufacturer for inspection' line, and you'll either never see or hear about it again, or they'll say there was nothing wrong with it.
I used to have this all the time when doing a/c repairs. The customer would turn up with the parts, sometimes they were plain wrong, or were cheap pattern parts that weren't quite right and were a pig to get to fit. Plus, of course, I would make money on parts I supplied, so I would have to put up the price of the labour to cover the reduced profit on the whole job. If the part failed shortly afterwards, they'd get the right hump when I'd wash my hands of it, or charged them some labour for a half completed job trying to fit a part that wasn't quite right. The you'd get into a slanging match with the suplier over whether it was fitted correcty, even if it's plainly obvious that a brazed joint has failed of its own free will.
In the end I refused to fit anyone else's parts, it just wasn't worth the hassle.
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I still happily fit other peoples parts but ALWAYS advise them before I fit them that they have to pay me to remove and refit them if there is any warranty problems.
Keep us informed what happens etc?
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Thanks for the responses. I'm a reasonable bloke; I understand that they have to cover their costs, and that ultimately it's my own fault for being a tightwad. Hopefully they'll have fitted the clutch correctly and then it should be obvious that it's the manufacturer's fault -- this garage have been there for years and the mechanics are experienced, so the chances of the part being incorrectly fitted are small.
This has taught me a lesson anyway -- not worth the hassle buying parts, unless they're stuff that is not labour intensive to pull apart again. Just have to hope that either it's a clear-cut mis-fitting, or it's an obvious break that has clearly been caused by bad workmanship. I suspect though that the truth will be somewhere in the middle.
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A small independant just down the road from me which I have used over the years. The owner was only telling me a few days ago that he will never use parts supplied by the customer as it wouldnt be fair on himself or the customer.
Supplying parts myself he said means that everything is down to me to sort out if something goes wrong. Using parts from a customer makes for bad feeling between them as the customer expects him to still sort it with whoever supplied the parts.
I fully agreed with him.....
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There's a good chance that the replacement clutch was actually a 'recon' part and the lining has ripped off the centre plate or rivits have broken. The diaphrgam could have cracked.
The golden rule with parts that are difficult or time consuming to fit is that you should always use OE (or equiv) unless you are immediately going to get shot of the car.
The clutch supplier will probably refund you - but you have zero chance of compensation for the labour - this has been tried and test over the years. Even the best clutch manfrs exclude labour refunds or consequential loss.
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Potential grief vs cost saving. I'm happy to pay a premium for a garage to take the full risk, but not too much of a premium obviously.
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I agree with the other posters that it sounds like the parts were faulty/not up to the job and because you supplied the part then you are going to have to cover the extra labour costs. It could be a damn sight more expensive lesson learened so look on the bright side.
The garage were willing to supply a clutch for the car for £140 and there wouldn't have been much profit in it for them. The clutch that you got hold of was only £80, so not quite but getting on for half price. Look at it like that and are you surprised that the new component failed prematurely?
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jase1,
Sorry to hear about this... I bet it seemed a good idea at the time.
I'm another who stops this ever happening by refusing to fit any parts unless I supply them.... whatever the apparent quality or source.
The modest parts profit I make is good value for the owner in ensuring my warranty to him is parts and labour if anything were ever to go wrong.
As a matter of interest a clutch is a part I will never ever skimp on due to the effort of taking the whole lot apart again.
DW
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Yup, the whole thing has taught me an important lesson -- don't get cheap when it comes to cars.
From this point onwards I'll be getting the garage to buy in the part, and insist on manufacturer's or equivalent parts wherever possible, especially when it comes to mechanical parts like this.
It's made me stop and think. What if that "cheaper" part had been a brake pad, and what if it had broken after I'd been given the car back? I shudder to think.
Clearly there is a lot of crap about, and here was me thinking they all had to comply with standards. If it does turn out to be the clutch I think I'll be specifying "no Comline" in future, whatever the component. My faith in that company is now totally shot.
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I wouldn't worry too much about the quality of spurious parts, they aren't all that poor quality like the 'comline' clutch you have experienced. As long as the components are from a reputable after market manufacturer then 99% of the time they are fine. Garages normally have a good idea of who makes decent value for money spurious parts and thus next time I would listen to their (experienced) advice and fit the parts recommended by your garage, whether the parts are after market or original equipment.
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Well the problem gets worse.
Apparently (and I won't be able to see for myself until Wednesday now) a part on the clutch has broke, and punched a hole in the gearbox casing. They're suggesting that they can weld the hole shut, but if that were to fail I'd be talking hundreds to get the whole thing repaired.
The motor factors are suggesting that the manufacturer will most probably pay up in full, but I'm loathe to spending too much in case CTL don't pay up and I'm left with a huge bill on a car that's only worth £1500 anyway.
This really is the most expensive £80 I've ever saved :(
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Sorry to hear that Jase. You should be able to pick up a s/h gearbox for a couple of hundred quid from a breaker and get it fitted (with a new quality clutch), I guess it depends on how much hassle (read : ££££) welding it up would cost.
As the old gearbox would have to come off anyway to do the clutch, there's probably not much extra labour charges involved in putting another 'box on, though I think I'd be inclined to let the garage handle sourcing the new one for you, given the circumstances.
yours,
a fellow Primera P11-144 1.8 owner
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I'm guessing that the hole is in the bell housing rather than the 'box itself. You should be able to get a s/hand bell housing cheap. Even if its the gearbox itself that is damaged then a s/hand one should be readily available for a couple £100's.
Take plenty of photos of the damage and keep all the bits and then take supplier to Small Claims Court. Failing part is one thing, but failing an wrecking a 'box is a bit too much to bear.
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Take plenty of photos etc as above, and written details from your garage/mechanic.
But talk to supplier before small claims court please.
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>>>>Apparently (and I won't be able to see for myself until Wednesday now) a part on the clutch has broke, and punched a hole in the gearbox casing.....
Well that's unusual..... I think we will all be interested to hear exactly what has failed here to do such damage.
DW
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I would want to be there when they dismantle it and with somebody who knows the score if your not ofay with the problem,it seems to me that the chances of the clutch being faulty are almost nil and assuming the pressure plate was tightened down nothing can escape.I would wager they have forgotten to tighten all the pressure plate bolts backand one has flown out damaging the bellhousing but if you are not there you will never know.
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Had a look at this today.
One of the rivets holding the pressure plate in place seems to have broken off, and the plate it was holding down is what has done the damage. Pictures below:
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freeimagehosting is playing up this evening, if these are no good let me know and I will re-upload. They are all there though.
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Ouch, nasty! Definitely looks like failure of the clutch itself. Gearbox appears scrap though. I can't see that went 'ping' though - must have made a right racket! You've probably got a good case for reimbursement of the expenses, but you may well need to pursue via the small claims court....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Why is the gearbox scrap at worst it needs a new bellhousing the damage is only cosmetic.
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Just smooth the sharp edges on the bellhousing;if there is a hole in it;just leave it or put some body filler in it.
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There is a lot of bell housing and only a very little hole!. I think I would just reuse it!
The damage does not appear to be a hole punched in the housing just abraided by a rotating protrusion on the clutch housing. That is if I have interpreted the pictures correctly.
Did it actually go 'BANG'??????????
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pmh (was peter)
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A chemical metal type of thing would be preferable.There is also a method of 'welding' aluminium with a blowtorch and a special rod,more like brazing I suppose,can't think what is called at the moment.
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Looked to me like there was g/box oil spread around, hence my assertion the 'box is scrap. Maybe not.....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Well I took the box to a specialist this morning, they're sure it's weldable. The reason for the oil is that the hole is in the worst possible place, ie where the main bell-housing meets the oil containing part. The cost will be around £100, because the bell-housing will need to come apart to be welded properly since the speedo gears are the other side of that piece of aluminium.
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