Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Gabe
I'm about to buy a brand new supermini. I want something reliable and fun to drive. I thought about Japanese cars as I've heard that they're the most reliable by far. The problem is that I hate their interior and basically find them pretty ugly. As for German vehicles - well, I can't afford the Golf and have heard that the Polo is pretty unreliable. So, I stumbled across the Peugeot 207. I love everything about it......my only problem is the bad press French cars receive. Not to mention the recent Topgear satisfaction survey - Peugeot came last!! Any suggestions?
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - rogue-trooper
Seat?
Skoda?

Both quasi-German.

I had a 306 from new once and had no end of problems and had to sell before 50k miles. Not sure I am going back to a Frenchie in a hurry.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Brian Tryzers
> my only problem is the bad press French cars receive. Not to mention the recent Topgear satisfaction survey - Peugeot came last!!

I take it you don't live in the West Midlands - Peugeot isn't a popular brand round here these days. >:---(

As for the Top Gear survey, apply the usual pinch of salt. It's a self-selecting group taken from viewers of a programme whose viewership is in any case (see other threads!) scarcely a representative cross-section of the car-buying population. My suspicion is that Top Gear-watching Peugeot drivers include a significant proportion who have been issued with a Peugeot for work and don't like it on principle; the same may also be true of other mass-market brands.

Even if my suspicion is wrong, the survey is not a properly randomized and controlled sample and is at best, one piece of evidence among many. You could take your own sample - of cars on the hard shoulder awaiting the AA. My guess is you'd find a lot of Renaults and a surprising number of Volkswagens before you got to Peugeots.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - T Lucas
207 has ben out since June 06 and the only issue that i know of is the drivers window channel had to be re-aligned on some examples.From my experience they seem to be consistant with the build quality and as French cars go seem to be a lot better than previous models.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - RobC
I have always been wary of French cars with their build quality and reliability issues. However, the recent spate of new models from Citroen, Renault and Peugeot have made me think again.
With the C4, Clio and 207 we have 3 cars that look good, have decent interiors and look built to last.
With the latest crop of new superminis, the 207 is right up there at the top. It certainly bodes well for future models from these companies.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - cardriver
Whilst I agree partially with wildebeest and his Top gear comments, all other customer surveys including Which and JD Power always score the French poorly in terms of reliability and service.
I'm afraid the words French and reliability just do not go together in the automotive world.

I think you are going to have to prioritise your criteria and then decide that if you want reliability then you buy Jap and make do with the looks and if you want fashion then buy European and join a good breakdown club.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - jase1
My take on the whole French reliability thing is that most of it is bad electrics. Renault seem to have had a really bad time with unreliable engines and transmissions a few years back but this may be resolved now. Pug/Citroen mechanicals are fairly robust, not as bad as some make them out to be but I want absolute reliability and find that the Japanese/Korean cars offer something closer to ideal than *anything* European, that goes for German as well.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is just don't buy a Renault ;)
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Avant
Beauty - and ugliness - are in the eye of the beholder, aren't they! Our elder daughter was very fussy about what her car looked like], and dismissed everything except the Yaris. The 1.3 is very lively and great fun to drive. Try one.

Personally I think the 206 and 207 are thoroughly ugly - it's the shape of the rear doors on the 5-door cars that I can't stand (not to mention the horrific blind spot that the design creates).
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Gabe
Thanks for your advice - I'll go and look at the Yaris. Still love the look of the 207 though :)
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Chas{P}
207 was the 7th best selling car in January 07 outselling Megane, A4, Vectra, Clio, Zafira, 307, A3, Jazz, Civic, Mini, Passat, Grande Punto & Yaris in that order.


Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - tyro
Yes - it is true that on pretty well every reliability and owner satisfaction survey, French cars come at or near the bottom and Japanese ones at the top.

But what that means is that (say) 95% of Japanese cars are faultless for the first five years of their lives, whereas only (say) 85% of French ones are. Get a Japanese car, and there is a still a small chance that you could have problems. Get a French one and there is a good chance that you won't.

I drive cars that are pretty near the bottom of the 2006 JD Power owner satisfaction survey
www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=220291# , but I don't have any regrets.

Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Lud
Very sound attitude tyro.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Xileno {P}
French cars can give good service provided the dealer is competent. However for ultimate trouble-free motoring then Japanese lead the pack. Another great benefit of a Japanese car is that when things do go wrong, they are comparatively easy to fix. Lift the bonnet on a Jap car and real thought has gone into the layout making routine maintenance and servicing dead easy (generally speaking of course, there are always exceptions). My Renault, despite being a nice car which I'm very pleased with, is a curse to do almost anything on.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - madf
I echo Xileno's comments on servicing. The Yaris is easy peasy. The Peugoet 106 - old I know but typical - is in some aspects of its design - especially the front disks - and changing side light bulbs - a real PIA..

"Designed for service " is a phrase apparently unkown in French design circles. My local garage agree: they think Fiats and French cars are horrible to work on (vs Ford and Toyota and Subaru..) and they work on anything from a Roller to a HRG...
madf
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - boxsterboy
I have always tended to favour European cars as they seem to have an element of character to them. To me, Japanesse cars lack soul and are merely wheeled white goods.

I have owned a number of Citroens and Peugeots that have never let me down. By far the worst car in recent memory was a VW Sharan. I was glad to be rid of that!
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - jase1
Another great benefit of a Japanese car is that when things do
go wrong, they are comparatively easy to fix. Lift the bonnet
on a Jap car and real thought has gone into the
layout making routine maintenance and servicing dead easy (generally speaking of
course, there are always exceptions). My Renault, despite being a nice
car which I'm very pleased with, is a curse to do
almost anything on.


Totally agree with this. My dad's Laguna, for all that it has been reliable and has only gone wrong once, the complexity of that car is totally unnecessary. Compared with my two Nissans, or indeed the Hyundai I had until recently (which is very similar to a Mitsubishi), these cars are simple to a fault, and I don't care how "boring" people say they are, the fact that they (a) very rarely go wrong, and (b) are dead easy to put right when something does break, means I'm unlikely to buy anything else.

I very nearly did buy a Citroen (Xsara HDi), but the thought of having to change the cambelt 10K later put me off completely. On the Hyundai, this is a straightforward job and will cost about £80 at a backstreet garage. On the HDi, you have to replace half a dozen other bits and it's a hell of a job, so it ends up costing closer to £400. I can see a lot of these cars being trashed early because it isn't worth changing the belt, so they're allowed to run until they go. Shame.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/11/2007 at 18:35

Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - PhilW
"My dad's Laguna, the complexity of that car is totally unnecessary. "

Why does it matter if "it has been reliable and has only gone wrong once"??

"On the HDi, you have to replace half a dozen other bits and it's a hell of a job, so it ends up costing closer to £400"

Odd that, because we had the cambelt done early on our Xantia HDi, because our local independent said he would do it for £120 while it was in for service.

Incidentally, on 6 Citroen diesels we have had (since 1987 and up to 170k miles) the only other work apart from cambelt changes we have had done on the engines is a few (2 sets of 4) glowplugs.
I guess we must have been very lucky 'cos the only electrical faults have been a new starter motor on a 120k BX (£12 from scrappy, fitted by me outside the scrappy so I could exchange old one!), a few bulbs and a fault with rear lights cured by unscrewing the earth lead from body, squirt with WD40 and retighten the earth lead.
Ah well, must buy Japanese next time for extra reliability, and forget the advantages of that fantastic Citroen suspension over half a million miles.
--
Phil

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/11/2007 at 18:35

Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - jase1
Why does it matter if "it has been reliable and has
only gone wrong once"??


Because eventually something is bound to go wrong (inevitable in any car), and I'd rather have a car where there is less risk of a repair being expensive.
Odd that, because we had the cambelt done early on our
Xantia HDi, because our local independent said he would do it
for £120 while it was in for service.


Yes, but from what I was told the HDi needs various other parts replacing at the same time (water pump, tensioners etc) and that if the cambelt only is done, a failed water pump can still trash the engine. These problems do not afflict the engines in the Hyundai/Nissan (and the Nissan is chain-cam anyway).
Incidentally, on 6 Citroen diesels we have had (since 1987 and
up to 170k miles) the only other work apart from cambelt
changes we have had done on the engines is a few
(2 sets of 4) glowplugs.


The fact that I nearly bought a Citroen must demonstrate that I don't disrepect the cars' reliability. In any case, Citroens from about 5-10 years ago weren't loaded with unnecessary electronic gadgetry in the main. I'd have a new Citroen (they're cheap and relatively simple compared with some other French cars), but I wouldn't give you a thankyou for a Renault.
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - PhilW
Well, I don't intend falling out with you about this jase, and I am only going on personal experience which may not reflect general experiences by others. However, we have had cambelts repelced on our high mileage Cits(twice on the 170k one, once each on the 140k one and once on the 95k HDi) and I can't recall anything in what was said or what appeared on the bill that suggested that any water pump or tensioners were replaced. Maybe the tensioners were included automatically but I seem to recall, from far more knowledgeable people than me on posts here, that tensioners, water pumps and belts on XUD and HDi engines are not known weaknesses.
As for your statement that "eventually something is bound to go wrong (inevitable in any car), and I'd rather have a car where there is less risk of a repair being expensive.", I have to say that in my experience there ain't much point in thinking like that. All our Cits have been traded on before that "expensive" repair occurred - and since they have done the mileages quoted above they have served us well for minimal cost (and that superb ride!!)
As for "unnecessary electronic gadgetry", even our 1983 BX had electric windows, central locking, alarm etc, and my wife's 2000 Xantia HDi Exclusive has more electronic equipment than you could shake a stick at! (auto wipers, heated seats, all windows/mirrors electric, climate control, sunroof, CD changer, headlamp washers, and probably some other things I have yet to discover) - and all still work!
Anyway, we all make choices for different reasons, and I have no intention of suggesting that my choices are more valid than yours!
Enjoy your motoring!
Cheers
--
Phil
Peugeot 207 (French Cars) - Welliesorter
I was under the impression that the Peugeot 207 was made in Slovakia and the Toyota Yaris in France!

I had a 207 as a courtesy car recently. It feels much more solid and spacious than you'd expect. I disliked the whiny engine noise (not sure which one it had) and I couldn't make head of tail or the computer - I'm usually comfortable with gadgets.

Its best feature was plenty of space for my size 12 feet. If I were looking for a new car I wouldn't now dismiss it out of hand.
 

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