oops, missed out "petition" Makes a bit of a difference.
JH
|
OK let's look at this the other way.
UK electorate is around 45million (or about 39 million in England). Do we give every pressure group that get get up a petition over a million a veto on national policy?.
|
"Do we give every pressure group that get get up a petition over a million a veto on national policy?"
Of course we don't.
SPECIAL interest groups only require a few 100 supporters..to cast a veto.
It's not the numbers of voters but whether it suits the politicians to believe in their causes..
See the anti apartheid debate: relativley few against.. but a significant impact on policy..
Or as another, the impact of various animal rights groups..or religious groups...
.
madf
|
You know when politicians start off sentences with expressions such as: "the facts of the matter are"..."the truth of the matter is".."the vast majority of people think that.." and similar comments, that whatever people would wish for or want to see happen will very likely never occur.
The power of being able to introduce measures, however unpopular, is a tremendous feeling for such individuals.
Most people are convinced, for instance, that Tony Blair almost certainly acted in such fashion over the Iraq war because it provided him with such a major role in world politics.
The fact that the ordinary man in the street would be dramatically affected by such road policies would never really sink in as such people are far removed from real life reality and, in Blair's case, will continue to be so because of the need for permanent protection.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Looks to me like the thread title has a word wrong. You've put "may" when you mean "will".
V
|
|
Never seen any environ-mentalist petitions getting so many signatures!
|
|
|
Anyone listen to James Whale on Talksport of an evening? Slightly outspoken(!), he voices just how the majority of UK citizens (English more so) are not represented by the current government and collection of MP's.
His advocated approach to all the elected 'deaf' MP's failing to represent the silent UK majority is, I think, to make sure not one current MP gets re-elected next time - showing that Democracy can work. As all current sitting MP's are tarred with a large taint of selective deafness when representing the people, they get turfed out of the trough they're all well-nosed into. In other words, vote for anyone bar the sitting MP in your area.
Sounds good to me - they'll be replaced by similar I'm sure, but at the thought of losing their place on the Westminster gravy train, they may listen to their electors more attentively. Spread the word!!
1 million people cannot be wrong; was it Nelson who said 'I see no ships'?
What petition?
|
|
Erm, shurely shome mishtake , for Sir Francis Drake, was it not he ?.
|
Erm, shurely shome mishtake , for Sir Francis Drake, was it not he ?.
Drake said (on being told of the approach of the Spanish Armada), "There is time to finish this game of bowls and beat the Spaniards".
Nelson said (on being ordered to break off the engagement at Copenhagen), "I have a right to be blind sometimes - I really do not see the signal".
|
|
|
|
|
|
> See the anti apartheid debate: relatively few against.. but a significant impact on policy..
Really? What 'significant impact' was that? My memory is of the Thatcher government in the 80s refusing to impose sanctions on South Africa because 'it would hurt the people we're trying to help', which may have meant the oppressed majority in SA, or the corporations in which she and her party had vested interests. You decide.
As for this petition, come on - one million people can't be wrong?? Come on - more than that buy (I nearly said read...) the Sun every day! All they've done is click a few keys on a computer without even having to leave their chairs. The reason governments take relatively little notice of petitions is precisely that it takes so little thought or effort to put your name on one. A letter to an MP takes more doing, so it carries more weight.
And as for the numbers, more than 2m people came out in 2003 to demonstrate to remind the government that its plan to invade Iraq was morally and legally wrong, so quite why anyone expects half that number of names on an electronic list to prevent it from doing something it's legally entitled to do (leaving aside the question of whether or not it makes any sense in the broader picture, which no-one here has really touched on) is a mystery to me.
|
WDB said: "which may have meant the oppressed majority in SA, or the corporations in which she and her party had vested interests. You decide"
More and more, I'm beginning to suspect that WDB is an official government spokesman.
V
|
> More and more, I'm beginning to suspect that WDB is an official government spokesman
That's a pretty dim assertion, Vin. I've not heard many of those describe the invasion of Iraq in the terms I used, or neglect to kowtow to Rupert Murdoch and his media outlets. I despair of this government's failure to use eight years in which it had a huge parliamentary majority to actually fix some of the problems it inherited - such as the railways the last lot shattered on purpose - and how it managed to waste so much of the resources it's put into health and education on wasteful internal markets and the illusion of 'choice'. Meanwhile we have A-levels where any grade below A might as well be a failure and universities that give first-class degrees to people who don't know when and when not to put an apostrophe in 'its'. And it still can't use any of its expensively-bought influence in Washington to get the US to play ball on climate change.
Heard any of that from a government spokesman recently?
|
" Meanwhile we have A-levels where any grade below A might as well be a failure"
Typical Mail reader statement. I suggest you actually look at the level of study required to achieve an A-level today. I studied my A levels at Grammer school in the 60's and my daughter is currently studying for hers and I see very little difference in the (large) amounts of work required. If you want to throw insults about, do it about a subject you have some knowledge of.
|
> I studied my A levels at Grammer school...
Bet you're wishing for an Edit button now, Lord W! (Unless Grammer was the town you studied in, in which case my apologies.) Spelling aside, you've missed the point. I'm sure A-levels are a lot of work now, and I can from the teenagers I know that we're working our schoolchildren harder than ever, certainly more than I had to in the 80s. (My five-year-old gets homework, for heaven's sake.) But that doesn't mean the work is more useful or the qualifications it leads to are any more rigorous; quite the contrary in the case of many recent graduates I've worked with, whose ability to construct a verbal or numerical argument is deficient to the point of being embarrassing.
Still, there can't be many here who've been accused of being a government mouthpiece and a Mail reader (both wrongly) in the same morning!
>:---)
|
|
LOL-so much for a grammar school education! I was irritated to see what I perceived to be an attack on modern education as I'm currently watching my eldest daughter studying incredibly hard for her A levels at a school with academic standards at least as high as the one I attended. I take on board and to a large degree accept some other points you make.
|
Might just be having some effect if this is to be believed:
tinyurl.com/yq24fo
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
"A letter to an MP takes more doing, so it carries more weight."
I wrote to mine on Iraq.. and received a dismissive letter 3 months later.
Frankly the political system is designed for political parties to do as they wish and damn the electorate wishes.
And the plans for public transport improvements are?
Nile..
It's political lunacy...
madf
|
|
No harm done, m'Lord. I didn't mean to disparage your daughter or anyone else at the student end of the system. My concern is that however hard they work, I think the education system could be doing so much better for them and I think society will suffer in the long term. This discussion probably belongs somewhere else, though, so I'll stop there.
|
On A Levels - they are not worth what they were, and are getting easier year by year (I have two "children" who went thhrough thed 2 and 4 years ago- betweeen the two what was covered changed!. They have to be easier because the standard of teaching is so abysmal!
On rod pricing - the best one I have heard is the regional trials - just how far out of the West Mildands do you have to live not to be involved in the trial, and how accurate is it if you take the local traffic off the M6 (because they have to pay) but not the long distance traffic (because they don't live locally)
BNRR will be rubbing their hands together!
|
Why not start your own petition?
petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?cat=521
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
"Hey Alastair, things are really are getting seriously hot around here what with the cops breathing down my neck and the plebs getting restless! Got any ideas how we can spin our way out of this mire and keep hold of all our self awarded perks for a bit longer ?"
"Got just the thing Tone - stick a petition section on yer website and watch the masses fall for it. They'll all sound off like so many bleating sheep but not actually do anything meaningful. The best bit is that they'll feel so good afterwards they'll forget not to vote us out at the next election ;) LOL"
|
Why not start your own petition? petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?cat=521
I think the biggest message the government will get from reading these petitions is that the education system is a failure!
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
"I despair of this government's failure to use eight years in which it had a huge parliamentary majority to actually fix some of the problems it inherited - such as the railways the last lot shattered on purpose - and how it managed to waste so much of the resources it's put into health and education on wasteful internal markets and the illusion of 'choice'."
OT I know, but very well put, if I may say so. I largely agree about the A-levels too, but as my older children sweated blood over theirs, it's not a comfortable debate.
WRT road pricing, it seems to have escaped our Great Leader's attention that we already have it in the shape of 80% fuel tax! Of course, that doesn't help him track our whereabouts, which is the real purpose...
|
JBG. The last sentence of your post says it all! Control freaks the lot of them!
|
|
Apparently Tony Blair is going to e-mail everyone who signed the petition to tell them why they're wrong- should keep him busy. Also shows the contempt this Government has for the electorate.
|
>>Why not start your own petition?
>>petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?cat=521
Wow, just done a search of the site, some real gems there, suprised no one has started a permission insisting it is made possible to nail jelly to the ceiling:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Make it a law that managers or anyone reviewing employees work must give praise
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Make the teaching of Anglo Saxon (Old English) compulsory in all schools in England from the age of 7
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to promote the learning of the guitar via the use of online guitar tablature by working with the National Music Publishers Association (NMPA) and the Music Publishers Association of the United States (MPA) to provide viable online resources following the recent wave of website closures
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to release a Christmas single
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Introduce a system voting which gives additional votes to more deserving people and removes votes from the anti social, the politically unaware and stupid
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to turn a mid atlantic island into prison
|
|
|
|
|
|
