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Hi there recently got a xsara 2.0 hdi 90 and basically i feel that its a little unrefined, the throttle sometimes feels like an on/off switch which can lead to a bit of an all or nothing jerky progression, i know that the throttle is electrically wired to the ecu and not a cable that goes straight to the pump (ah the good old days), so its bound to feel different (the old car was a 1.9td xantia, fantastic car!), but i feel as though you have to work very hard with the vehicle to keep it going along with smooth progression!, i mentioned this to my citroen dealer and he agreed with me saying that they are a little that way inclined and that the 110 motor was the better option!. Also the motor seems to lack the flexibility of the old 1.9td, i.e you have to change down a lot more to keep it moving at any great pace, anybody got any views?.
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To put it bluntly my 306 was an unrefined POS. Didn't have the problems you say but it was noisy, pretty slow really and smokey.
Don't understand why they used a CR fuel system in a car without any other performance enhancing things (VVT, intercooler, etc)
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CR fuel systems aren't designed for perfomance per say..... They came about to try and lower emissions and by and large they have. The fact that you can 'tune' more power out of a CR system than say an old style injection pump just happens to be a bonus!
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I've got the 110 HDi in a Xantia and there's no problem with refinement, far nicer than either the old 1.9TD PSA unit (which I've had in four cars) or something equivalent like the VW group TDi.
Not so sure about the comment regarding the 110 being more refined than the 90 either, since they're pretty much the same engine, excepting the intercooler attached to the 110 version. In fact, I've heard that the 90 is actually nicer to drive as, in the Xantia at least, it has better gearing - my 110 has very tall gear ratios, nowhere near as forgiving of being in lower gears than the older TD units were. Doesn't like being in 4th gear at 30mph at all, have to use 3rd for that.
As for acceleration, it's fairly linear and much as on any other car I've driven, maybe there's some adjustment that can be done to reduce the sensitivity of the pedal?
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Doesn't like being in 4th gear at 30mph at all, have to use 3rd for that.
Same car as XantKing.
Second is OK for thirty, doing about 2800rpm@ 28mph. Rapid increase in noise after 30 avoids need for over focus on speedo in camera zones.
Never in fourth much below 40
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Same car as XantKing. Second is OK for thirty, doing about 2800rpm@ 28mph.
!!!!
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My previous car was the Xsara HDI 2.0 estate, and I experienced the same thing. No go at all at the lower throttle settings. You'd try to accelerate away from a junction and there'd be nothing there! Was also a pretty noisy engine.
Other than that it was a pretty good engine, gave good economy, especially on a long run at 50-60mph.
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Have got a Xsara 110 and not experienced anything like that at all, in fact been fairly impressed with acceleration from rest. Have noticed my lift shares head move a couple of times during gear changes- but put that down to my driving rather than the gear change being jerky (have tried to make my driving smoother).
Apart from the mpg being a little lower than expected (47mpg average- own calculation brim to brim) I think it is a fantastic car.
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I tend to agree with Bromp. Mine doesn't like 4th below 40 unlike the 405TD. Also the power seems more linear on the HDi. Can't comment on the 90 but I would imagine it feels pretty weak unless the gearing is a lot lower than the 110 as has been suggested. Are you sure the bottom rear engine mounting isn't worn out, I'm told this happens on Xantias and 406s.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi. - Float on!
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When I first got my Zsara (Estate 110 HDi, 2002), The throttle cable was very ?sticky?. I got a new one from Citroen spares (about £22). It came with some lubricant oil which I used, but after about a month, it became as bad as the one I had taken off. I re-lubricated the cable with a good, thick grease and 30k miles later it?s still OK. Another point, the cable drives a sensor pot that has an internal spring return. I noticed on my car that this was not smooth in it?s operation. My car too exhibits a noticeable ?on/off? power transition from over-run to accelerate. It could be coincidence, but I only noticed it after the dealer upgraded the firmware to cure a keyfob problem. On a general point, the car is quite high geared?you need to change down to third in a 30mph zone, and fifth requires about 45mph to pull smoothly. The engine does not like pulling from below 1300rpm. If you drive with this in mind the reward is, in my opinion, an excellent performance/economy compromise. I don?t find economy suffers if you change down around town. I get a consistent 50mpg (measured over several tank-fulls) on a mix of motorway and shopping runs. Motorway runs are a delight, the engine pulls strongly in fifth from 50mph to well above the legal limit and at about 75 the only noise is from the tyres. The car now has 108k, I?ve had it since 74k and three years old. Despite one or two problems, It?s the best ?drive? of any car I?ve owned.
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I agree with all your points above dereckr, I've had my 2003 HDi 110 Xsara for a week and a half now and have noticed the driveability problem below 1300rpm, something the 90bhp HDi doesnt seem to suffer from (Owned 4 of these in different cars previously).
For a cheap car that is unpopular in the 2nd hand market, its a damn good car. Im getting 52 - 53 mpg from mine which is pretty good. The overtaking ability is top notch too, probably the light kerb weight of 1220kg helps this!
I bought it as my commuting hack and its actually impressed me far more than I thought it would. The only problem so far is knocking anti-roll bar links, but these are a common problem. Its on 55k now, so a good 100k at least left in it.
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Peak torque on the HDi 110 is at about 1800 rpm, and this is also where peak specific efficiency is so that is where you should try and drive it - which should nicely equate to 30mph in 3rd, 40 in 4th and 5th in 5th - as it did in the old TD units - and should give best economy. 1300 rpm and asking it to work is labouring the engine - don't do it please! 30 mph in 3rd also has the added benefit that it helps to stop you attracting the attention of the little men in the white vans with radar traps....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I have driven a C5 HDI 110 bhp automatic and I have to say it was fine. No lack of refinement and performance OK. Can't see how this engine wouldn't propel a Xsara perfectly adequately.
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I'm hoping to have a test drive in a 306HDi 90 this weekend, to determine whether I'm definitely going to buy one in the next month or so and to see what it's like to drive compared with my existing 1.9TD. I know they are supposed to be a lot better on fuel as I've said before. I thought performance wise the former and the latter are much of a muchness, but I want to see for myself.
Martin
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From talking to owners of 306s it sounds like their experience is quite varied. One chap I spoke to sold his 306TD to his father and bought a 306HDi as an upgrade, he hated the HDi and wished he'd kept the TD. Maybe a good long test drive is the answer. I've never been in a HDi 306 so can't really comment. It does sound like a great combination though.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi. - Float on!
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