Recently my Golf (GTI TDI 150 Diesel 2003 Model) has started pumping out some serious smoke when I accelerate through 1st, 2nd gear and in to 3rd. I have also noticed a drop in MPG. I used to get 520 - 540 out of a tank and now I'm getting closer to 450 miles. It also revs (RPM does not move) when sat idle in traffic.
It has been in the garage and they say that no alarms are showing when they plug the computer in, they thought it was the exhaust valve sticking open and exhaust gasses going back in to the engine which would prohibit combustion, but apparently that is fine. They have also mentioned that it could be the air mass system.
Has anyone ever had this problem? Please help as I am stumped.
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Have you eliminated all the basics like changing all the filters air,oil,fuel?? fresh fuel in the tank etc?
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hi bigtee
yes and no. It has been a probem for about 4000 miles. The car goes (obviously) but aceleration seems to be slower. It is due a service in 2000 miles and has done 56,000 so far.
So petrol has been changed but none of the filters or oil.
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So petrol has been changed
Might be your problem?
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I had similar symptoms( black smoke, loss of power ,rough idle and bad mpg) with my 2001 gt tdi 130 and i replaced the air flow meter which cured the problem( £ 75 FROM EURO CAR PARTS ) . I also believe that the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve can gum up and cause similar symptoms such as this . It can be replaced for about £200 from vw or if you have time can be cleaned if gummed up and you have a hour or two spare time. A number of picture guides are available on freds tdi forum
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Hi Guss
Thank you for this, I will try the air flow meter this week and see how it goes. The garage said that they had tried the EGR valve and it was not stickining open, everything points to the air flow meter.
cheers
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Apparently disconnecting your Air mass sensor and going out for a drive if the performance returns not 100% but it's better than before then you can safely say the air mass sensor has had it. The Bosch AFM are the crap ones i cannot of the top of my head think of the other brand that makes the AFS that are more reliable. Sure someone else will be along with the name.
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You might find the approach in this link useful: tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-8.html
Seems a logical approach, eliminating minor faults first! Dealerships tend to jump into "turbo blown" mode rather than diagnostic mode for obvious reasons.
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A split boost pipe (after the turbo) / intercooler would also give similar symptoms to what you're discribing
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I agree with this. Loss of power on my 110bhp AFN engine despite being diagnosed as gummed up turbo turned out to be the MAF meter. Unplugging it will help demonstrate if it is at fault exactly as Grease Monkey says. Changing it not only restored lost power but gave more power than it had ever had over a wider rev range suggesting that the original had been under-performing for many years.
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despite being diagnosed as gummed up turbo
If I were you I certainly wouldn't use the mechanic that said this again !
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I have a GT 150 Tdi, and was slightly dissapointed with the fuel economy / performance I was getting when I took ownership in Feb. The car had covered 109K but was noticably underperforming compared to the 130 Tdi I had tested recently prior to buy it.
The car had a full VW dealer service history and I noticed it had had one of its turbo pipes changed about 7000 miles before I had it.
I was getting similar symptons to you, reduced economy, slight lack of power at certain revs/gears, smoke under hard acceleration.
Whilst nosing under the car one day I noticed that one of the pipes connection the intercooler ( nearside front valance area) was not fully home. The metal 'U' clip that secures the pipe to the flange was broken allowing precious turbo boost to escape. The clip had been broken prior to fitment, because there was some suble bodge evidence present ! It was obviously coping at lower revs / lower boost pressures, but struggling when demand arose.
Proper alignment and fitting of the pipe and a replacement clip, transformed the car.
Goes to show that main dealers services aint all what they should be.
Cheers
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Thank you to everyone who replied to my problem. I have had the airflow meter changed and the car seems to smoke less but the performance and MPG are not significantly different. I am going to check the alignment and fitting of the clip on the Intercooler and see if it is out.
Again thanks everyone.
If you would like to read Instalment 2 of my VW saga then please read on.......
Had the cam belt changed 2 weeks ago on my lovely VW golf and 3 days after getting it back I noticed some serious knocking sounds coming from the engine at 75MPH on the M25. On closer inspection the engine was basically running very rough at high revs so I got towed to the garage that had recently changed the cam belt for me.
They have inspected the car and swear blind that there is nothing wrong with the cam belt fitting or timing. So the questions asks.......what is the problem?
Well on closer inspection (taking the rocker head cover off) they now tell me that the cam shaft and 3 rocker heads (not sure if this is the correct terminology. Basically the metal part that is pushed down by the camshaft as it rotates) need replacing. What they say has happened is that 3 of the four heads have worn (not sure how) and these need replacing and this wear has damaged the cam shaft which also needs replacing.
Does anyone know this as being a common fault with 2003 VW's Diesel Engines that have done 60k and why the fault occurs? I am just a bit suspicious that 3 days after my car has been in the garage for a cam belt change there is now a much larger fault with the cam shaft and other major mechanical parts, should I be?
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Oh dear, sounds like the wrong oil could have been used
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Agreed, I've read elsewhere that the 150s are especially prone to cam / follower wear if the VAG spec oil has not been used ....
It's just like Triumph Stags in the early 70s, if only people would follow the servicing instructions and use the proper fluids / lubricants ... (this is not aimed at the person starting the thread, but the 150's previous owners)
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Go and have the live date form the temp sensor logged that last one I fixed rose to 65% C then returned a - supercold temp thus the engine effectively re engage the choke parameters, Very common fault. Regards Peter
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Go and have the live date form the temp sensor logged that last one I fixed rose to 65% C then returned a - supercold temp thus the engine effectively re engage the choke parameters, Very common fault. Regards Peter
Peter, I'm trying to check the temperature sensors on a golf diesel without much sucess - all seem to be open circuit... do you have the resistance values for cold/hot conditions and which of the 3 sensors is for engine control ?
cheers
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Thank you for coming back so quickly on this problem. Visiting the garage today and seeing the camshaft and rockers that have caused the problem it definitely looks like not enough or the wrong lubricant has been used for some time. Three of the cams a serious wear and two of the rocker tops (not sure of the correct terminology) have worn through and slid down the rocker shaft.
Sorry to sound like a novice but what lubricant should be used to prevent this happening again?
Could it by any chance be this compartment not being supplied with enough lubricant as it does look like the two rockers closest to the cam belt have suffered more than the others?
Peter - could you please explain more.
Thanks
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The oil needs to be to vw 505.01 spec i believe either in long life form (20k) service intervals or the type for standard 10k services. Too many garages seem to put in the standard 10w 40 turbo diesel stuff. Basically the valve operating cams are very narrow on this engine to allow space for the unit injector operating cams which leads to very high contact loadings and the need for a specialist oil to prevent excessive wear.
With my own car of the same type the cam close to the cambelt is showing some signs of wear ,so perhaps lubrication is marginal at this end. I would be interested to know how much a new camshaft is if it's only available from VW themselves.
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Sorry to hear that, it sounds very expensive. Regards Peter
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As dieselhead said, VW PD motors MUST / MUST have oil to the VAG spec 505.01 (10K change intervals) or 506.01 (long life service).
No matter what anyone may try to tell you, even the most expensive full synthetic (Mobil 1 etc) is NOT good enough if it doesn't state 505.01 / 506.01 on it.
This stuff has special anti-scuff additives to protect the cam and followers because of the huge loadings on them. The cam actuates both the valves and the injectors, and the injectors generate nearly 30,000 psi (or 2000 atmospheres) every time they squirt.
If it's any consolation, even the dealers didn't always know which oil to use in the early days following the introduction of the PDs.
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I'll second that - only to add that 507.00 oil is also suitable for these engines.
I have a B5.5 Passat clone with a PD engine. The service documentation is an absolute model of muddled thinking and confusion - no wonder these engines are "abused" unintentionally. It's absolutely extraordinary that there is no clear distinction on the engine between a PD type and the earlier varieties, with an appropriate warning on the engine itself as to oil types.
The use of a technical oil spec number such as 506.01 to describe oil bought and used by the public is a further recipe for disaster - as we have seen. If Ford or GM had come up with this design, it would have said "PD oil only" in big letters on the engine and "PD"oil would be in clearly labelled cans from the dealer.
VW have shot a really good engine in the foot by doing this - the German mentality for adherance to technical specifications won't work in the real third world here. As has been said, even the dealers get it wrong.
659.
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Thank you all for coming back on this one and confirming my suspicions. Once the cam shaft and followers (I have now found out that they are called followers and not rockers) have been changed I will make sure that the correct oil is used and will change the oil and filter regularly.
A new cam shaft from VW was approx £315 and the followers are £22 a pop. This is approx pricing because the garage odered them and I have not seen the bill yet as the work is not finished so I am working from memoy on what they told me.
Again cheers to all.
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Rather concerned as to where all the worn away metal went. We would all like to think that the filter collected the debris. But a very close look at the cam bearings would be well advised. Regards Peter
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daniel
Catastrophic cam follower failure is a known fault with the ARL 150PS engine - even if it's been religiously filled with the recommended oil.
Only use the latest-spec VW/Quantum Longlife service oil - NOT the Quantum PD diesel oil - and change every 10,000.
As well as a cam-belt and water pump; you'll need the injector rollers too and the sump removing for a full clean-out/flush to get all the hardened frag out.
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I agree with 659FBE on this one. There should be a notice in the engine of PD engines telling you which oils to use. Of course most of us in the HJ forum know you MUST use oil to the new spec 507.00, which used to be 505.01/506.01 in PD engines. Quite clear as mud, which ordinary punter is bothered about all this? They ought to make it more simple.
It would seem that your previous garage used the wrong oil, do you have a claim against them? Are you sure that the repairing garage will use the correct oil, you must know that most mechanics know much better than any notice or manual and will use the oil from the barrel in the corner.
I agree that you should use the VW/Quantum longlife or Castrol Edge 5W/30, you can get it from Halfords. Yes it is dear, but cheaper than a broken engine!
A pal of mine has had his Passat 130 TDI serviced at a independent Ford garage against my advice, the bill was about £90, I just know they will not have used the proper oil. I am waiting to see what will happen.
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Ford used this engine in "their" Galaxy model (mostly developed by VAG) so it's just possible that a mechanic in a Ford dealer might recognise it and use the correct oil.
On the other hand, I wouldn't bet on it....
659.
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I agree with 659FBE on this one. There should be a notice in the engine of PD engines telling you which oils to use. Of course most of us in the HJ forum know you MUST use oil to the new spec 507.00, which used to be 505.01/506.01 in PD engines. Quite clear as mud, which ordinary punter is bothered about all this? They ought to make it more simple.
The oil grade is written next to the oil filler cap.
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It isn't on my PD 130.
659.
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Nor here, just a dire warning against overfilling (which the VW main dealer ALWAYS manages to do)
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You are correct, my 115bhp PD has no sticker, but my mk3 tdi has the sticker on the camcover, both have the warnings about over filling etc
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Mine hasn't got a sticker on either.
If my independent garage serviced a Galaxy, it would have the same 10W/40 that everthing else has! I have argued with the boss and he will not believe all this 506.01 stuff, his oil has superceded all these specs he tells me. I have stopped taking the Passat to them, I have found a good VW independent who uses the correct stuff, I have checked!
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