Driving in the 90s and 100s - helicopter
No -not mph - years of age.

Anybody else see the BBC 1 documentary last night on the aged drivers.

Some pretty dangerous driving going on IMO and not a lot of seat belt wearing.

I had to laugh at the forgetful but spirited 93 year old very genteel looking grey haired lady who was always leaving her walking stick behind .

I fell off my chair laughing as she was filmed coming out of her house , shuts door , turns deadpan to camera and says 'Wheres my walking stick ?? and returns to house to collect it.

She was later filmed driving off from the hairdressers with her walking stick on the roof of her BMW and being stopped by a lady to return it .

I am all for keeping old folks mobile but surely we should have some sort of more stringent test 's for the over 80's and not leave it to purely to them to decide when it is time to give up.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - cheddar
I am all for keeping old folks mobile but surely we
should have some sort of more stringent test 's for the
over 80's and not leave it to purely to them to
decide when it is time to give up.


Agree 100%, well 90%, I would say for over 70's.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Collos25
And lets get rid of all people under 25 who cause most of the accidents and we could get rid of !!!!!
Driving in the 90s and 100s - cheddar
I wouldn't argue if the min age was raised to 18.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - AR-CoolC
I only saw bits of it as I was doing other things, but it was where the lady in the Polo reverses into a neigbours car and just drives away.

I also saw the old dear leaving the stick on the roof and driving off, but did you notice that when she was getting into her car, the car park next to hers had a good old bash from her door.

Scary to watch at times
Driving in the 90s and 100s - runboy
Yes, I saw that-what an eye-opener:

The oldest lady who has passed a IAM test promptly reverses into another car and drives off without stopping.

I hope the old chap who was shown reversing his Rolls Royce after lunch and saying he couldn't be bothered to look behind him and then subsequnetly hits something (and doesn't stop to look at the damage) didn't drink that whole bottle of red wine he had at the table.

And the old lady with the walking stick who opened the door of her BMW and bashed it into the car parked next to her.

However I did think some of the filming was set up-the frequent overtakes by someone on a bicycle, the film car who was going slow, forcing the film subject to go slow and the susequent tail of traffic which was probably due to the film car!

But 16 miles a year-how does that BMW ever survive!
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
I didn't watch it. Thought it might be a bit near the knuckle.

All drivers under 40 who have not passed the IAM test should carry a huge red P (for prat) on the back of their vehicle, as should all those convicted of a wide variety of driving offences unfortunately not yet on the statute books.

There should be no upper age limit for drivers provided they can see and hear and are not totally gaga.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - GregSwain
All drivers under 40 who have not passed the IAM test
should carry a huge red P (for prat) on the back
of their vehicle, as should all those convicted of a wide
variety of driving offences unfortunately not yet on the statute books.


All drivers over 60 should have to pass a reaction-time test. And they should also revise their knowledge of speed limits. 60mph zone, in nice dry conditions means you should be going faster than 40mph. Another test would be the "getting out of a parking bay without burning out the clutch" test.

IMO, the IAM test is worthless - the last piece of useless advice I remember hearing from IAM was to stay in 3rd whilst doing 30. I think I'm a good enough driver to select my gears myself, I find 4th is usually better personally! ;-)
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Micky
17 year old in a Ford Fiesta 1.25, fully comp insurance = £1.5k, 73 year old in a 2.0 Mondeo, fully comp insurance = £250. Both low risk postcodes. This proves that older drivers are safer drivers, the insurers are never wrong ;-)
Driving in the 90s and 100s - runboy
This programme last night did indicate that insurance for over 70's is now difficult if nigh-on impossible to get....not sure what stats are available.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Micky
"> This programme last night did indicate that insurance for over 70's is now difficult if nigh-on impossible to get....<"

It was on TV so it must be true then ...
Driving in the 90s and 100s - runboy
Phew, thats alright then-I'd hate to spout these comments if they weren't true!

Lies, damned lies, and statistics......someone once said.....
Driving in the 90s and 100s - turbo11
This programme last night did indicate that insurance for over 70's
is now difficult if nigh-on impossible to get....not sure what stats
are available.

>
Absolute rubbish.My parents both still drive at the ages of 74 and 85.They have no problem getting insurance.My mother(85) learnt to drive during the war on an army jeep.she has never had an accident.My father has had three accidents(2 non fault)in fifty years of driving,all were when he was in his fifties commuting 40k miles a year.I reckon they would pass a re-test better than me.But must agree with some of the other comments about the drivers shown in the programme.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Vin {P}
I think all drivers of all ages should be banned in the name of safety.

V
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
IMO, the IAM test is worthless - the last piece of
useless advice I remember hearing from IAM was to stay in
3rd whilst doing 30.


Aprilia likes people to drive about in the lower gears I notice. Anyway he complains about people trying to drive at 30 in top gear, which most cars will do comfortably on the right terrain (flat or slightly downhill) provided the driver has a sensitive foot and ear.

One of the offences drivers should be penalised for is driving at 50 on open but narrow A-roads, because their speedo says 57 and they are playing safe. Anyone who drives much under a speedometer 70 on such roads should be pulled and scolded, and if they are under 40 banned from driving for two weeks to concentrate their minds.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - stunorthants
What is this rubbish about people not drving at the speed limit? The limit is the speed you should not exceed, not the speed you must drive at.

I dont drive at the speed limit because I drive an old car and it doesnt have the abilities of the latest cars and its 20 years old. I do about 45 on a 60 unless its long and straight and about 60-65 on duel carriageways. I usually edge up to 70 on the motorway.

Theres always the option to overtake for people who wish to drive faster and Ive found that if you drive at about 40 on a 60, it gives drivers behind many more opportunities to pass than by doing 50.

This attitude that one must drive as fast as possible is the attitude that gets 17 year olds wrapping their Novas round trees. Highly irresponsible.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
This attitude that one must drive as fast as possible is
the attitude that gets 17 year olds wrapping their Novas round
trees. Highly irresponsible.



Didn't notice yr very reasonable post before stunorthants. Slow but considerate drivers are no problem to anyone. But one category that gets my goat is the person who slows to 40 for the twisty bits when higher speeds are safe but overtaking needs a Lotus or something, then starts to accelerate when it is at last possible to overtake. And other moving-obstacle stuff.

It is many years since I have tried to drive 'as fast as possible' as a matter of course! Bad for cars and wearing on the nerves.

However plenty of high-mileage Euro and Asioboxes can swim along at motorway speeds and better. There's nothing irresposible about wanting to do the thing quickly and safely. Indeed it is good for the soul.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - stevied
What gear at what speed depends on the car.... my 6 speed is happier at lower speeds in 4th than my old 5 speed, as you'd expect.

I would hope that the IAM are not quite so rigidly prescriptive.

I think the old bloke with the Roller was a nutter! Even his wife asked him at one point what on earth he was talking about, to which he replied he didn't remember anything he'd said for longer than a minute and a half.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - helicopter
Unfortunately , most of the featured drivers never took a driving test because they were driving before the test was brought in.

I remember being concerned over my ( now deceased ) father in law who, although not gaga wrote off two cars in the space of a year when in his late seventies and suggesting gently after the second accident where he fell asleep and drove straight over a roundabot that he take a long hard look at whether he should be driving before he possibly killed someone.

He eventually returned to driving but his last car , a BX Turbo bore the scars of many a minor scrape caused by lack of judgement in car parks etc.

Driving in the 90s and 100s - cheddar
There should be no upper age limit for drivers provided they
can see and hear and are not totally gaga.

>>

I see some elderly drivers around that struggle to meet just one of those criteria.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - cheddar
>>This proves that older drivers are safer drivers, the insurers are never wrong ;-)>>

Ask a friendly septegenarian to hire a car, they might have trouble.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - drbe
>>This proves that older drivers are safer drivers, the insurers are
never wrong ;-)>>
Ask a friendly septegenarian to hire a car, they might have
trouble.


Funny you should say that. I have just enquired about hiring a car and out of interest I entered gradually increasing ages. It wasn't until I got to 101 years of age that the company said that there would be a special rate.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - GregSwain
I see some elderly drivers around that struggle to meet just
one of those criteria.


I'll second that. Flat caps are the biggest clue in my experience. Also, the old dears who drive with their chest against the steering wheel, I've never quite understood that.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - bell boy
I'll second that. Flat caps are the biggest clue in my experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
really?
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Tomo
I believe there is one old blighter around here who is good for a ton and a half, and I hope we do not get rid of him for a year or two yet!
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Stuartli
Truly eye-opening although I should be well aware of the potential in my town, a resort in which the vast majority of the population has been collecting the State Pension for years and years.

Fortunatley they don't have to drive to the Post Office now to collect it - it goes straight into their bank accounts.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Driving in the 90s and 100s - wotspur
I have met several 90+ drivers during my working life, the majority of whom were more astute than many 70 year olds.
When I demonstrated Scooters, to women especially , I always asked if they'd ever driven and never allowed them an 8 mph machine if they hadn't
What I do think needs restricting is an upper age learning limit - it's easier to learn things as young as possible so no one over 40 should be starting to learn to drive
Driving in the 90s and 100s - TheOilBurner
All this talk of restrictions here and there based on age is a bit daft IMO.

You can't generalise that all over 70s have lost it and become dangerous, nor can you say (even tongue in cheek) that over 40s are too old to learn.

Clearly nonsense. Either you're good enough to drive at point x in your life or you're not. The existing driving test can filter out over 40s that can't learn anymore as well as 17 yo's who never will. All we need now is a fair and reasonable method to test over 70s at regular intervals to weed out those that can no longer drive safely and let the rest of the elder population keep their much valued mobility.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - GregSwain
Fortunatley they don't have to drive to the Post Office now
to collect it - it goes straight into their bank accounts.


Having been brought up in Christchurch (Dorset) before moving to the North-East, I understand exactly what you mean. The local paper regularly reported accidents as a result of elderly drivers. One I remember, an elderly lady in her 90s, forgot which pedal was which in her automatic Daihatsu, and smashed into a wall. Thankfully the other motorists on the road were alert enough to get out of her way.

I realise I'm biased, being a younger driver and having only 4 years experience behind the wheel, but I really do believe elderly drivers pose much more of a hazard than younger drivers. While younger drivers lack experience and make mistakes which write off their cars, and hence raise their premiums, they still have a concentration span. I frequently see elderly drivers concentrating intensely on the road ahead, but still only managing 35mph on a rural A-road. I recently read an article in which an ambulance driver voiced his frustration that elderly people were seldom noticed a massive Iveco van with flashing blue lights on their tail. Only yesterday my girlfriend overtook an old dear who was driving along a major dual carriageway, with both wing mirrors folded in. That's a little more dangerous than going 100mph up the M1 in a souped-up Citroen Saxo.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - TheOilBurner
Isn't Chritstchurch a popular retirement location? Hence a larger proportion of drivers are older, and it should come as no surprise that when there are accidents, it is often old people involved. You could equally pick any town with a much younger population, and find, unsurprisingly that all the accidents involve young people instead. It doesn't prove anything, not does the anecdotes about folded wing mirrors etc. I've seen bad driving and poor awareness from all sections of the population, it doesn't stop at old people.

Indeed, some of the real lunatics have already killed themselves (Darwin style) whilst still young and therefore never get to be old drivers, leaving a pool of better drivers behind! ;)
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
I'll second that. Flat caps are the biggest clue in my
experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
really?


Surely you don't wear one om?

Very few hats are anything but grotesque and embarrassing. Baseball caps.... yucksville!
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
Further to some of the posts here, wearing my whippersnapper's hat, I have come across some fairly terrifying, very slow, elderly drivers, who had indeed first got their licences before a test was part of the process (it stayed like that in Ireland until the sixties). One of them, a late aunt of my wife, also used to set my teeth on edge by revving the guts out of her horrid little Fiesta to warm it up from cold. I regularly explained to her that this was very bad for the car, and she would seem to understand, but the next morning the screaming of tortured Ford machinery would roll through the Sussex mist as usual.

I much preferred my cousin's grandfather, a retired army officer living in Ascot in the fifties. He had a pre-Rover 75 Rover Sixteen which he drove everywhere at 50mph; a small man, he could hardly see over the scuttle but nevertheless hurtled cheerfully about with generous swings of the wheel... never hit anything as far as I know.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Ruperts Trooper
IMO all drivers should be re-tested every 5 years, starting at 17!
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Round The Bend
I saw the Onelife programme last night - funniest thing I've seen for some time.
Not sure what is scarier - a 90 year old with (or without) a walking stick or a 19 year old chav out to impress.
_______
IanS
Driving in the 90s and 100s - jase1
IMO all drivers should be re-tested every 5 years, starting at 17!


Agree 100%. All this talk of retesting 70-pluses etc is ageist.

As I've said on many occasions, a good driver will not fear such a test.

BUT I think that the "retest" should not be a traditional driving test. It should simply consist of examiner getting into your car, saying "right, today I want you to drive to town x 20 miles down the road and back again" and let the driver get on with it.

The driver has already proven he can do the manouvres etc, this would be more real world -- and drivers with dangerous bad habits would be filtered out, regardless of age.
Driving in the 90s and 100s - drbe
>> I am all for keeping old folks mobile but surely we
should have some sort of more stringent test 's for the
over 80's and not leave it to purely to them to
decide when it is time to give up.


I am all for getting young folks mobile, but surely we should have some sort of more stringent tests for the under 25s and not leave it to them to decide when it is time to start.

No, not totally ironic. It seems that the young (very young?) and the old (very old?) have accident rates higher than the norm. The old may be because of deteriorating physical health and the young because of immaturity and aggression.

Not all young drivers are immature and aggressive and not all old drivers are in poor physical health - but you are just as dead id you are killed by a driver, whether they are young or old. So how are we going to sort it out?
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Round The Bend
Just wondered - what is average age of people who drive down motorways in the wrong direction?
_______
IanS
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
Just wondered - what is average age of people who
drive down motorways in the wrong direction?
_______
IanS


25 years and three months. They are trying to escape from the police.

;o}
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Waino
I trust that all petrol-headed, geriatric-bashing backroomers will be able to recognise when their time has come - and hand over the keys to their motors without a fight ;-)
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Bromptonaut
How much safe, or at least averagely competent, driving ended up on the cutting room floor to make what was probably a half hour show?
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Robin Reliant
How much safe, or at least averagely competent, driving ended up
on the cutting room floor to make what was probably a
half hour show?


Exactly. TV shows about driving standards are pure rubbish. Stick a camera in a car for forty hours and then pick the ten minutes that make the driver look a complete fool, with out of context comments that make it look even worse.

None of us could survive that without seeming incompetant and dangerous. A few years ago one of the driving instructor organisations advised all ADI's not to participate in theoe learner driver programmes that bacame popular for just that reason. So called near misses were proven to have been staged to make good TV and the object of the shows was all to do with providing good television at the expense of accuracy, which in TV terms is rather boring.
--
Driving in the 90s and 100s - PhilW
Thing that struck me (and this has nothing to do with age ) was whether these people really needed the "freedom" of their cars. The lady with the BMW used it once a fortnight to go to the hairdressers - wouldn't a fortnightly taxi be far more convenient? Same went for some others - old bloke with lovely Roller, get taxi to pub for dinner and enjoy the whole bottle of Chablis? Old soldier - drove to pub, had a beautiful pint of bitter then had to switch to orange juice - get taxi and enjoy 2 pints!

--
Phil
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Micky
Independence. And trying to stay young(ish).
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
Forget categories - chav, wrinkly, illegal immigrant. Are they dangerous or threatening? Have they come to official notice for that reason?

If the answer to one of these questions is yes, then home in and take a closer look by all means, make sure it was just a bad day or whatever.

Otherwise, none of anyone's damn business how old you are or what your reaction times are. I have said before on this site that a lightning bad reaction is much worse than a leisurely correct one.

It isn't a question of lightning reactions at all actually, but of rhythm and elegance energetically adapted to the constantly shifting background. I agree this is an attitude difficult to maintain in today's conditions. Indeed caught myself screaming imprecations three times on the way across town yesterday. But I don't suppose any of the objects of my oaths noticed and I certainly didn't frighten anyone or get in their way. And of course never needed a quick reaction throughout, it's a once in a blue moon thing and then you're lucky if you get away with it.

Yes or no, TVM for example?
Driving in the 90s and 100s - cheddar
>>>> Otherwise, none of anyone's damn business how old you are or
what your reaction times are. >>


It is in all of our interest to ensure that fellow road users meet certain criteria, that includes poor reactions, uncorrcected myopia etc.


>>I have said before on this
site that a lightning bad reaction is much worse than a
leisurely correct one. >>


No, they are equally bad depending on the precise circumstances though the former, a matter of judgement, can be corrected by training.


Driving in the 90s and 100s - helicopter
I know the site has a no swearing policy so I would point out my original post has had the meaning altered by deleting the extremely rude adjective used by the little old lady when asking where her walking stick was.

It made me laugh because she swore like a trooper all the time and was completely unexpected from a 93 year old.

In answer to those who say the BBC staged the worst bits - do you think they deliberately encouraged at least two of the drivers not to wear seat belts to get a 'better' programme? I think not .

Driving in the 90s and 100s - daveyjp
Saw this last night. Really enjoyed it - the swearing of the oldies, the ex con who learnt to drive by 'borrowing' London Standard delivery vans when just 14, but never passed a test as he was a wanted man so wouldn't reveal his identity to anyone, the woman who did just 16 miles per year, old style hand signals, the couple with their Roller was like something out of 'The Fast Show' - brilliant.

They asked about the seatbelts and the drivers said they never wore them! The queue of traffic shots could easily have been staged as they were filming from the vehicle in front - slow the camera vehicle down and a queue will form , so what it's TV! From the interior shots the woman in the BMW certainly didn't appear to be afraid of getting her foot down.

Driving in the 90s and 100s - Stuartli
>>the woman in the BMW certainly didn't appear to be afraid of getting her foot down.>>

Was she "driving in the 90s and 100s" then...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Lud
No, they are equally bad depending on the precise circumstances though
the former, a matter of judgement, can be corrected by training.


Do you mean they MAY be equally bad cheddar? If you do then I can agree, otherwise I don't. I think your determination to join issue on this non-question is just a bit, well, cheesy....;o]
Driving in the 90s and 100s - Martin1981
My late Grandad was driving up until the age of 88 when he was forced to give up after an accident (albeit someone else's fault) got the better of his immaculate Honda Civic. He was very reluctant to give up and was insistent on buying another car and carrying on drving, but was strongly advised not to. One Life the other night certainly took me by surprise- particularly the guy with the old Rolls Royce and the 100 year old with the Robin Reliant. My personal opinion is that anyone over the age of 80 should be made to undertake some sort of driving test every couple of years to determine whether they are fit enough to carry on driving or call it a day.

Martin
Driving in the 90s and 100s - LeighB
It is my belief that drivers eyesight should be checked regularly, and not just by the "can you read that numberplate" method. Particularly with elderly drivers vision may deteriorate in a number of ways and yet pass the numberplate test. Loss of most peripheral vision can occur without a) affecting that test and b) with the driver blissfully unaware.
I have quite often failed drivers who came for a HGV medical (which does have more stringent requirements) but whose vision was far worse than the standard test. In most cases they just need to get specs.
Curiously in this country even if you need glasses to satisfy the test you are not required to wear them !! (Unless you are driving an HGV)
A normal licence is valid until age 70, but to renew, you don't need any examination, just sign a statement that your health and eyesight are OK, how many elderly liars are driving around?
Insurance companies used to require older drivers to have a check up at 75 or 80 depending on the company, and then annually, but most seem to have abandoned this practice.

The other failing as we get older is reaction time, I agree that only competition drivers need "lightning fast" reactions, however an average reaction time is important for the safety of other road users. If it is slowed to 3 or 4 times longer than average - not that unusual - you may well fail to stop in time in an unexpected emergency. The classic child runs out into the road scenario.
Average reaction time is about 3/10s of a second. At 30mph you travel 13feet before you even start to respond. If 3 times slower you will travel another 26 feet, could be the difference between life and death?
Reaction time can be measured in a fairly simple way using a 12" ruler. Hold it vertical with the bottom between the index finger and thumb of the examinee. Tell them to catch it when you let go. Should be easy to stop within 3 - 4 inches. I had one elderly driver who missed it altogether and complained I had let go before he was ready!! I repeated the test - so he could practise - but the results was unchanged. You cannot "train" a lost reaction time.
Sorry for long post but I feel it is an important issue.
 

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