Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Surrey_Scientist


Was wondering if anyone who's owned/driven one of the current shape (2003-) onwards Toyota avenis give me their opinions/experiences of their car so far.

I am interested in the 2litre 2.0 D-4D diesel engine. I know there are 2 versions of this engine one 110Bhp which the car was launched with, and a later Euro IV compliant 116Bhp (?) engine which is marginally more powerful, but cleaner (Is that right ?). It is these engines that my budget can probably extend to, much as I like the sound of the new 2.2 D-4D or 126Bhp 2.0 D-4D they have just launched - I won't be able to afford one that new !!

At the moment I have an old '94 Corolla 1.6i petrol which is too small, although with its 110Bhp is rather quick....... I need a larger car, probably will be looking at an estate version avensis, and also maybe towing a caravan I am able to borrow at times.

Can anyone tell me what the performance of these engines is like - they have same Bhp as my old Corolla, but it is a bigger car, although there will of course be loads more "grunt" from a diesel ?

Does anyone have experience of chipping the two earlier engines - what was the outcome and which chiping service did you use. Which insurer have you got and how much did they increase your premium (assuming you told them.......) ?

Can anyone give an idea of high-mileage longevity of the engine and rest of the car - what's the oil consumption like as mileage increases, and what engine, or other problems have needed sorting ?

My experience of the old corolla at 110,000 miles and 12yrs old is so far only ever wear/tear bits , always passs MOT, and touch wood never let me down. Will I have the same experience ? !!!

Thanks in advance !!

Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Surrey_Scientist


2 days and no replies.......

so I can take it this is not a popular car then ?

Is there a reason for this ?

- are these really bad and people don't them.... or just too boring to pass comment :-) ?

Any info if anyone has any would be great !
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - mlj
Have a look at the road tests section. The car was tested by HJ, quite favourably I think, when it was first made. I have aa Avensis 1.8 petrol. Beware you don't overlook this option: I lose about 8 mpg but the car was £2.5K cheaper to buy in the first place. There is also a Toyota owners forum that has a useful Avensis section. I think the consensus on the D-4-D is that Toyota set it up for refinement rather than outright performance. No major drawbacks as far as I am aware.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Xileno {P}
I drove the D4D and liked it. Very comfortable and refined but I just can't learn to like the styling so it's off the shopping list. Otherwise nice car and being Japanese likely to be very reliable.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Aprilia
I think the 110bhp was the 'old' Avensis and the 116bhp is the new one. Its essentially the same engine though and Toyota use the Denso CR system - which is better than the DDS (Delphi) used, for example, by Ford. Qaulity of the electrics, connectors etc looks better.

Personally I'd go for one the 1.8VVT petrol models. Seems to be a smooth engine. Pay a little more in fuel, get the car a little cheaper, and cheaper bills if something does go wrong with it.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
and Toyota use the Denso CR system - which is better
than the DDS (Delphi) used, for example, by Ford. Qaulity of the electrics, connectors etc looks better.


Where is the evidence for that Aprilia? After all the Ford TDCi 130 is more powerful, more refined, much more torquey and just as economical and does not suffer connector related failures!

That is the point I would make, while I dont really like the look of the new Avensis the main issue is there are more competitive diesel engines out there than the D4D 2.0. The 2.2 136 is a bit better though less economical, I am planning to drive 2.2 177 to see if the reports that say that it lacks torque below 2000 revs are true.
Personally I'd go for one the 1.8VVT petrol models. Seems
to be a smooth engine. Pay a little more in
fuel, get the car a little cheaper, and cheaper bills if
something does go wrong with it.


So if you want an Avensis I would go with Aprilia's suggestion re a petrol one.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - blue_haddock
During my time at Toyota i drove an Avensis D4D on quite a few occasions, personally i'd have the diesel over one of the petrols any day of the week as to get the best out of the petrol you really have to rev them whereas the power delivery of the diesel starts at a lot lower revs.

I wouldn't worry too much about engine longevity - there are loads of these being used as taxis so if they think they are up to the job i wouldn't worry too much about it falling apart under general family usage.

If you are looking for a diesel estate version you'll be paying quite a premium as they are fairly thin on the ground, it may be easier and cheaper to buy a 1.8 but if you are towing a caravan with a fully laden car i think it would be stretching the engine to it's limits.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Surrey_Scientist


Thanks for the advice so far.....

Speaking to a caravan dealership, they say really need to buy a diesel these days as modern caravans are very heavy (the no. of mod-cons fitted as standard) and that most modern 16v petrol engines produce their power too far up the rev range to tow well, even if they are quite high power-output.

They said the only petrol engines good for towing are very big ones (over 3litres), which obviously have a bit of a drink problem, or those with a low-pressure turbo to give plenty of power at low revs, which again can be thirsty.

They also said diesel doesn't seem to suffer quite such a comparitive %drop in fuel consumption when towing - perhaps as it has to be revved less to get the whoel shebang going.

I also am told the 1.8 avenisis VVTi engine has an oil-consumption problem over 50,000 miles - seems to afflict a lot of engines, and leads to early cat-failure.


Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - 659FBE
I think the caravan dealer gave you very sound general advice. Of the diesels available today, the VW PD unit is still a clear winner in terms of specific fuel consumption, low speed torque and durability, with the exception of the cambelt. If you can arrange to have this, the tensioner and the water pump replaced every 4 years, these engines will achieve very high mileages with almost no other attention than the odd MAF sensor.

I think the jury is still out in terms of the long term durability and efficiency of Japanese diesels. My view is that they haven't quite got there yet.

659.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Aprilia
The VW PD does make quite a lot of sense. Most of the advantages of CR without quite as much complexity. Stangely enough I got offered a PD Passat yesterday morning. 150k on the clock but very cheap. The snag is that its pressuring its cooling system a little bit - so I think the HG may be blowing......shame.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Collos25
Dealer I know took a batch from lease could not sell them or took a long time reason being they are ugly sells lagunas and mondeos all day every day.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - machika
I had a look at an Avensis 1.8 T3-X auto the other day. It was an 03 model having done about 45K and I was not impressed with the way the upholstery had become very tatty in such a short time. There were creases in the cloth covering the driver's seat, plus a small pull in the fabric, which looked like developing into a tear, and a generally discolouring on several areas of the fabric. I would think the car will not sell at the asking price of £8.5K.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
The VW PD does make quite a lot of sense.
Most of the advantages of CR without quite as much complexity.


More complexity perhaps, depends on how you look at it, rather than one high pressure injection pump PD uses a small one for each cylinder, these are driven off the camshaft thus putting additional load on the cambelt, not the most logical of designs IMO, on the other hand it is efficient in operation if not that refined.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
I think the caravan dealer gave you very sound general advice.


Agreed!
Of the diesels available today, the VW PD unit is still
a clear winner in terms of specific fuel consumption, low speed
torque and durability, with the exception of the cambelt. >>


There is no real foundation for that, the pre PD VW TDis last well with regular cambelt changes though the PD pumps put more strian on the cambelt, I know a couple of pre PDs knocking on 200k however the Ford/Jag Duratorq TDCi has better specific fuel consumption, produces more torque, has a cam chain, is at least as durable and is MUCH more refined.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - 659FBE
The pre PD VW diesels are not available today.

The two innovations which give the VW PD engine its edge (admiitedly with downsides such as the need for special oil and high cambelt repacement frequency) are the variable geometry turbocharger and the very high fuel injection pressures, approaching 2000 bar which this system allows. As with any machine, one has to decide whether that particular design compromise is acceptable - I think that particularly as a tow car engine, it is.

The fuel injection equipment used by Ford/Jag is, in my view, of much lower quality than the Bosch equipment fitted to the PD engine. Japanese diesels generally have their fuel injection equipment produced locally, under license from a European company, often Bosch. I have not generally so far been impressed with the results.

For a cheap tow car with a pre-Euro IV compliant PD engine, there are wonderful bargains to be had if you choose your bonnet badge carefully.

659.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
The two innovations which give the VW PD engine its edge
(admiitedly with downsides such as the need for special oil and
high cambelt repacement frequency) are the variable geometry turbocharger and the
very high fuel injection pressures, approaching 2000 bar which this system
allows. >>


Many contemporary TDs use variable vane turbos!
The fuel injection equipment used by Ford/Jag is, in my view,
of much lower quality than the Bosch equipment fitted to the
PD engine.


Though it does a better job, it provides more torque and much greater refinement. You comment does not make sense.

Japanese diesels generally have their fuel injection equipment produced
locally,


By Denso.

Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - GenevaJohn
".....I also am told the 1.8 avenisis VVTi engine has an oil-consumption problem over 50,000 miles - seems to afflict a lot of engines, and leads to early cat-failure...."

Does this also apply to the post- 2003 model (ie new model) Avensis ???

Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - IanJohnson
My first thought was that I had not driven one, then after a few minutes I realised that I had, for two days about six months ago when the Honda was getting a minor bump fixed.

Must have been a memorable drive ............

Can't actually remember if it was good, or bad (it is an 04 and is still one of the pool cars at work).
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Marc
Colleague of mine has one as a company car on an 05 plate in T Spirit spec (it's the 114 BHP diesel). I've been a passenger in it over about 800 miles in two days. I was really impressed with the ride quality and general comfort of it - it's great as a motorway cruiser if you can put up with the bland exterior looks. He gets about 48 mpg I think. He likes it so much he's replacing it with a new one with the 150 BHP diesel, again in T Spirit spec.

However another colleague test drove one against the Honda Accord and picked the Honda because of the better engine. He reckoned the Toyota engine was slow. For the private buyer I would say the Avensis is much better value than the Accord.

I personally reckon this car looks better as a saloon than a hatch.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - mlj
VVT-i engines between 2000 and 2002 affected. Post 2002 are fine. But to further put your mind at rest Toyota have/are/will replace engines and cats of cars affected up to five years old. So don't worry.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Surrey_Scientist

thanks for the info so far everyone....

I wondered if the 116bhp was underpowered, sounds like it might be.....

I actually quite like the look of the new Avensis - it is understated, and doesn't shout money come and steal me.

I may consider one of the newer 2.2D-4Ds if I can afford it.... has anyone driven one of these engines yet ?

I like the look of the Honda Accord, and it looks very classy, but it is a really huge car, and I do a lot of driving in London and parking it may be a prob..... Most of the time I don't need the huge size, but do need some pulling power for the caravan.... ALso HJ breakdown reports the Honda as drinking oil and low fuel economy...
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
>> I may consider one of the newer 2.2D-4Ds if I can
afford it.... has anyone driven one of these engines yet
?


No though as I say I am planning to drive one to see if the reports that say that it lacks torque below 2000 revs are true.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Chad.R
I may consider one of the newer 2.2D-4Ds if I can
afford it.... has anyone driven one of these engines yet
?


See HJ's roadtest here -

www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=228
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
I may consider one of the newer 2.2D-4Ds if I can
afford it.... has anyone driven one of these engines yet
?
I like the look of the Honda Accord, and it looks
very classy, but it is a really huge car, and I
do a lot of driving in London and parking it may
be a prob..... Most of the time I don't need
the huge size, but do need some pulling power for the
caravan.... ALso HJ breakdown reports the Honda as drinking oil and
low fuel economy...

I'll share my limited experience so far. Picked up my new facelifted 2.2 D4D (150) T3-X last Friday. First brim to brim fill tonight (524 miles between fills) works out at 50.03mpg, trip computer shows 47.6mpg for 575 total miles so far - i know this is too short a distance to be truly indicative, but it's looking good so far. Very happy with the performance, it cruises nicely well below 2000rpm, but there is noticably more shove between 2000-3000rpm (the max allowed under HJ's running-in advice!).

The gearbox felt notchy and awkward at first, but seems much better now, very easy to use - but that could just be me being used to it rather than it loosening up.

I had an extensive test drive in the Accord, but would say that the Avensis is the better motorway cruiser - quieter with better ride quality, the Accord never felt quite as 'settled' to me. Both are great cars though, in my opinion. The Toyota seems better value wise too, I managed a 12.5% discount (as a private buyer), having waved a drivethedeal printout in front of the salesman. That's on top of what I already considered to be a very reasonable list price.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
I took an Avensis D4D T180 for a drive today, intersting, I will post details when I have more time.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - Altea Ego
500 miles? 3000 revs? get that rev counter to within 200 revs of the red line at least once every next 50 miles.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
500 miles? 3000 revs? get that rev counter to within 200
revs of the red line at least once every next
50 miles.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >


TVM, is that right? Have I been too gentle on the thing? Grateful for your reasoning/advice on this, as I have now done 700 miles and not been beyond 3000rpm, perhaps a couple of hundred more, but that's it. Does running in too gently do harm in the long run?

Cheers,

Rich

PS - I was going by Honest John's FAQ on running in a diesel:
"For the first 1,000 miles do not exceed 3,000rpm, but make sure you reach 3,000rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 2,000 miles) do not exceed 3,500rpm, but make sure you reach 3,500rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 3,000 miles) do not exceed 4,000rpm, but make sure you reach 4,000rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 4,000 miles) do not exceed 4,500rpm, but make sure you reach 4,500rpm at least a couple of times a week. After that, no limit, but make sure you continue to hit 4,500rpm through the gears several times a week. The benefit of this is it helps to self clean the injectors, it blows any accumulated soot out of the exhaust system and it helps to free off the piston rings, making the engine more efficient and less likely to use engine oil. "
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - cheddar
HJ's advice sounds fine to me, you are not doing anything wrong.
Avensis D-4D Diesel - Opinions/ please ! - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
HJ's advice sounds fine to me, you are not doing anything wrong.


That's reassuring to hear, cheers Cheddar.
 

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