Rotating tyres at service time - Murphy The Cat
I recentlly put a post on an American motoring forum, asking them why, at service time, the manufacturer insisted that the tyres were rotated each time the vehicle was serviced, whereas in the UK it doesn't appear in manuals and in some instances is actively discouraged.

The Americans who responded to me were really surprised that we didn't do the whole wheel rotate milarkey and that got me thinking.

Is it me ?

Is it us ?

Or is it them ?

If anyone can offer any wisdom on the matter, i'd be really grateful.

I've not rotated the wheels on any of my vehicles for over 20 years and as far as I knew it was a practice that has passed into history.

MTC

p.s. If the answers are applicable & helpful, I'll send a link to this thread to the other forum for the American to enjoy
Rotating tyres at service time - Xileno {P}
No point, tyres last a good length of time these days.
Who's going to do it? If you pay a garage then that's cost. If you DIY, then that's also cost. If it takes me an hour, then that's time I can spend on my business earning money.

I think some people take mainenance a bit far. Aren't our good freinds over the pond still into absurdly short oil changes?
Rotating tyres at service time - Murphy The Cat
I think some people take mainenance a bit far. Aren't our
good freinds over the pond still into absurdly short oil changes?


yep, i think that it's 3000 miles on the 300C Hemi and folks seem to follow it as a matter of course - I'm wondering if the tyre roation is the same thing ?
Rotating tyres at service time - turbo11
I have always rotated the tyres on my cars.To me its just part of my car maintenance regime.Its easy to do and doesnt take long.As for them being rotated when your vehicle is serviced at a garage,maybe the mileages wont coincide,plus they will probably try and charge you a lot for a little work as usual.
Rotating tyres at service time - AR-CoolC
I always ask the dealer to rotate the wheels at service time, the wheels are off anyway, all they have to do is put them back on in a different palce.

I also rotate them myself at regular intivals, I know the advise in the uk is to have more tread on the rear tyres, but I prefer to keep an even wear and replace all 4 together.
Rotating tyres at service time - Adam {P}
Silly question but what abou the balanced wheels? Doesn't that post a problem when you swap them?
Rotating tyres at service time - nortones2
I prefer to follow the tyre makers advice, keep the new tyres at the rear, so don't want rotation until replacement of the fronts is needed! Anyway, I'd rather spread the cost rather than have to buy 4 tyres at a time.
Rotating tyres at service time - Adam {P}
Ordinarily I'd overlook this thread but I have an interest in it.

I have two newish Michelins on the back. They were fitted by Costco and rotated so the backs went on the front and new ones went on the back. Last week I needed (desperately) to put new ones on the front. For one reason or another which I won't bore you with, these turned out to be Yokos.

Now I know it's been wet recently and the roads are slippy - not to mention the fact the tyres are new, but I don't like them. The car doesn't seem anywhere near as sure footed as usuall. Now, rather than being unbelievably grippy, it's just....normal.

Now it's entirely conceivable that it's not the tyres and something else suspension related but I'd be intersted in putting the Michelins on the front and finding out for myself.
Rotating tyres at service time - quizman
I always have the same make of tyres on all the wheels.

Adam, why did you buy Yokos when you already had nearly new Michelin's on the rear? You would be better off with 4 Yoko's and much better off with 4 Michelin's. If I were you I would sell the Yoko's, and buy 2 Michelin's from Costco. You know it makes sence!
Rotating tyres at service time - Lud
Shouldn't they all be balanced, Adam? I used to think only the front ones needed balancing until I drove a car with a badly out of balance rear wheel and poor dampers. Above a certain speed a vibration would set in. The cause was obvious.

Good tyre fitters balance any wheel they put a tyre on as a matter of course. Charging extra for it is a bit distasteful, unless someone just wants to balance existing wheels without buying a tyre.
Rotating tyres at service time - Number_Cruncher
In rare cases, it can cause a balance problem which wasn't there already. However, in most cases, the imbalance within the hub is negligible - the imbalance force (for static imbalance) and moment (for dynamic imbalance) are both proportional to imbalance mass * imbalance radius - so an error at the tread will make much more difference than a comparable mass error in the wheel bearing.

In most cases, the wheels aren't balanced on the car anyway, only the wheel and tyre are balanced as an assembly - although there are balancing machines where you can leave the wheel on the car - these are sometimes useful for "troublesome" wheels.

Number_Cruncher

Rotating tyres at service time - Lud
On one of my Skodas, fitted with a single anti-theft bolt on each wheel, I found that although the wheels were balanced a steering shimmy would still occur. Neither the tyre fitter, who balanced the wheels again, nor I twigged that the problem was the safety bolts: they were around four times as heavy as the ordinary ones. When the penny finally dropped, the solution was to have two safety bolts opposite each other on the back wheels and none on the fronts. Really made me feel stupid.

Doh!
Rotating tyres at service time - Adam {P}
About balancing,

I don't really understand it. I know that each wheel has weights on to balance them. I know that both front wheels have two massively different sized weights so I assume, due to manufacturing tolerances or whatever, that one wheel is ever so slightly lighter than the other but up until today, I assumed that the two fronts were balanced for the front. When I'm typing that out, it sounds ridiculous though!

It might take me a while though. I only have one car jack!
Rotating tyres at service time - AR-CoolC
Adam, the tyre is balanced to the wheel, it makes no difference where the wheel/tyre combo are on the car.
Rotating tyres at service time - No FM2R
Adam - they are balanced so that when they spin they do not vibrate. If there is one part of the rim that is heavier, or one part of the tyre that is heavier, then that will try and spin out from the centre with a little more force than the bit of tyre/rim opposite it - causing vibration,

The wheel is balanced so that if you have a heavy weight, then the bit opposite is slightly heavier and that wieght is there to make the two opposite bits weight the same.

A wheel is balanced to itself, not to the car or to other wheels.

There is more sicence and complication, but that is the core.
Rotating tyres at service time - Number_Cruncher
>>There is more sicence and complication...

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=42...1

contains some of the science and complication - OK!, quite a lot of the complication!


One good straighforward explanation of static imbalance is that the centre of gravity of the wheel and tyre isn't at the centre of rotation - in essence, this boils down to be equivalent to Mark's heavy spot explanation.

Number_Cruncher
Rotating tyres at service time - Murphy The Cat
gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen
Tyre rotating ,as per the OP please !!!!

I turn my back for a moment and its turned into a wobble balancer thread.

MTC
Rotating tyres at service time - Group B
I used to rotate tyres to try to keep the better tread on the fronts (as taught by my Dad - incorrectly it would seem), and also to put off having to buy tyres as long as possible when I was skint. Now I dont bother as my tyres wear out a lot faster due to higher mileage.
Considered doing it on my g.f.'s MX-5 as tread was getting low on the rears, but I didnt get round to it and she's now replaced all four anyway. I think I read it somewhere it was recommended every 5000 miles (?), but can't remember where I read this. May have been in her owners handbook, I will have to check.

:o)
Rotating tyres at service time - Adam {P}
If Murph will permit, thanks for the advice guys. I'll have a look at swapping them over at the weekend.

Thanks,

Adam
Rotating tyres at service time - Murphy The Cat
If Murph will permit,
Adam


Oh, go on then, but make it quick !

MTC
Rotating tyres at service time - Group B
It might take me a while though. I only have one
car jack!


Can be done quite quickly if you've got some axle stands... and a trolley jack?

P.S. Beware of £10 trolley jacks from deleted - DD. Mine leaked and could have crushed me if it were not for the axle stands!

;o)
Rotating tyres at service time - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
I'm interested in the point about having the new tyres put on the rear.

That only makes sense to me if it is a RWD car? I've always had FWD and always renewed the front tyres as they provide both traction and steering, so surely that is the right end to have the extra grip and aquaplaning resistance? If the rears need replacing I put the new ones on the front and swap the old fronts to the back.

Maybe those talking about keeping new ones on the rear all have RWD/4WD cars? Or maybe I have always got it wrong!!??
Rotating tyres at service time - Group B
I've always had FWD and always renewed the front tyres
as they provide both traction and steering, so surely that is
the right end to have the extra grip and aquaplaning resistance?


Thats what I thought too. But: www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf....p
Rotating tyres at service time - mss1tw
Why would you want better rubber on the wheels that don't accelerate, steer, or (to any degree) brake the car? :-S

Rotating tyres at service time - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
> Thats what I thought too. But: www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf....p

Well I never! :) OK, it makes some sense now, and I do think Michelin have more knowledge on this than I do!

Cheers for the link,

Rich
Rotating tyres at service time - Lud
But: www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf....p
Well I never! :) OK, it makes some sense now, and
I do think Michelin have more knowledge on this than I
do!
Cheers for the link,
Rich


Actually all Michelin are saying is that putting new tyres on the back accentuates understeer, which they think more suitable to the average driver than oversteer.

Patronising balderdash to someone of my age, but perhaps those of tenderer years are just used to being nannied and expect it or even feel uncomforatable when no one nannies them.

Actually I feel some former posts in other threads, can't remember which, did sound a bit like that.
Rotating tyres at service time - Lud
Maybe those talking about keeping new ones on the rear all
have RWD/4WD cars? Or maybe I have always got it wrong!!??


There was another thread about that recently. Seemed to me that tyre-makers' advice was contradictory, so the whole thing is obviously pretty marginal. I put new ones on the front and always did, better stopping in the wet once they're scrubbed in, virtually no other advantages or disadvantages.
Rotating tyres at service time - doug_r1
I put new tyres on the back for the simple reason that the backs would fall apart with old age if I didn't, by rotating them I get a full set of tyres of a reasonable age.
Rotating tyres at service time - Dulwich Estate
Have I missed something?

My tyres rotate everytime the car moves.
Rotating tyres at service time - thallium81
The manufacturer of my late lamented car advised changing tyres back to front on same side only every 7K miles, I never did as it would have been every 7 weeks and I could'nt see any useful purpose being served, the tyres used to wear fairly evenly anyway.
 

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