Fight and Flight - top turkey
Hi all.

Just thought I'd share a general observation, which I've become more aware of over recent weeks.

On the daily commute from B'ham to Nottingham, I often ( 2-4 times per week) have cause to either flash my lights or sound my horn, particularly on the motorway. I never do it in an aggressive way I have to say, but simply to make them aware of my presence when they have moved into the lane that I am in and 'cut me up'. I'm always doing 70 max and moving into lane 1/2 when it's clear.

The response from the driver is either a hand gesture, foul language and stamping on the brakes causing me to take aversive action, or the driver just floors it to escape the situation at well above the speed limit. Why can't they just make a 'I'm sorry mate' gesture if it was a genuine error of judgement?

It seems that some people (perhaps the majority of us?) take it as a slight on their whole being when they receive a visual or aural reminder that they've made a mistake.

Sorry to sound like an old grumpy man here!

TT (33 years young)

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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
Fight and Flight - Westpig
Depends on the circs TT,

I get quite vexed when i come down the on ramp, indicate well early and try to merge, when someone already there seems desperate to 'keep me in my place'. Furthermore if that someone is doing dead on the dot 70 in the middle lane and i'm intent on doing more than that i'll try to accelerate away, but find a fair number of them intent on keeping me there as well.

I don't advocate pulling out in right in front of them, but i've seen it happen.

It's a case of two wrongs not making a right.

If someone weants to travel faster, why not let them...can't understand it........or is it the holier than thou element i.e i'm travelling at that speed and so should you.
Fight and Flight - top turkey
"If someone weants to travel faster, why not let them...can't understand it........or is it the holier than thou element i.e i'm travelling at that speed and so should you."

If people want to do 70+, it's fine with me, really. It's not my licence, life or kids they are putting at risk by floorinig it PAST me and heading off into the distance. :-)

I don't think it is wrong to flash or 'honk' when other drivers do such stupid manouveres that it can only suggest that they have made an error of judgement and haven't seen me. As I implied, we all make mistakes at some point. It's just the reaction of most people that I find hard to understand - why one of the two extremes?

Cheers.

TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
Fight and Flight - paulvm
Bearing in mind previous discussion on this topic and the rather unsettled nature of some out on our roads then it is best to avoid any suggestion of annoyance, notwithstanding how bad their driving may have been.
I use horn and flashing only in very extreme and rare cases, and have done so for many years, for exactly the reasons stated, it just winds some people up.
Just keep out of their way, let them go and annoy someone else.
I have decided that it is best to be as anonymous as possible on the roads, just a natural desire to survive I guess!
Fight and Flight - Westpig
TT,

Do you consider it automatically life threatening & dangerous for someone to overtake you at your indicated 70mph?

My satnav shows the indicated 70mph on the car's clock to be really 67.5 mph.

Then there's the differences in technology since the 70mph limit was introduced...tyres, suspension, brakes, even the road surfaces.

various governments have toyed with the idea that an increased limit, in places, could be sensible.

In reality, there's times when 50 mph would be foolish and dangerous and when 85mph isn't that big a deal.
Fight and Flight - top turkey
"Do you consider it automatically life threatening & dangerous for someone to overtake you at your indicated 70mph?"

Not all all. They are welcome to go the speed that they want to travel at. If they choose to increase their risk of a fatal accident, fine, do it away from me, that's all. I don't have a beef with that and don't believe that the flash or 'honk' has any educative effect.

What I do take exception to is a) being cut up and consequently MY risk of an accident is increased, especially when they stamp on the brakes for no reason, and; b) the far from polite response that many give when reminded of the fact that they've made a perceptual error in judging what space is available.

It's not the speed I have an issue with. It's the consequence to my safety that I'm bothered about.

TT.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
Fight and Flight - Westpig
It's not the speed I have an issue with. It's the
consequence to my safety that I'm bothered about.
TT,


If I pass you at an indicated 80mph, i'm really doing about 77mph, you'd be extremely hard pushed to get prosecuted for that. Where's the "consequences to your safety" there?

If you honk your horn and flash your lights at me i'll get irritated, you may even get a Royal Wave..

but there are some people out there who would take a major exception to your actions and then you really would be putting your own and others lives in danger, inc the cretin who drives poorly and tries to make you brake excessively or whatever else they do.

You need to let others get on with it.
Fight and Flight - Westpig
TT,

Try looking at safespeed.org......... where the author, an engineer suggest the stats show that monotonous same speed journeys are dangerous, because people get bored and don't concentrate enough. If you drive faster you concentrate more.

This is very simplistic and i'm no expert, but i know I concentrate far more at 80-85 than I ever would at 65-70.

Apparently lorry accidents have increased since they've had speed limiters fitted.
Fight and Flight - drbe
>>. I never do
it in an aggressive way I have to say, but simply
to make them aware of my presence when they have moved
into the lane that I am in and 'cut me up'.
I'm always doing 70 max and moving into lane 1/2 when
it's clear.


How does the other driver know that it is not done in an aggressive way?
Fight and Flight - Lud
Although it can be hard to resist the flash or toot either of disapproval or to remind someone courteously that you want them to get out of your damn way because they easily can and should, I find that thank-you waves, mouthings and flashes or toots are better for the soul and better for the general atmosphere on the road.

It's true some people are stupid and paranoid. That is why on the whole I now refrain from signalling displeasure or impatience. Less hassle all round. If you're going to worry about other people's clumsy driving you're going to be a very worried man for the rest of your life.
Fight and Flight - stevied
Good call Lud, and one I shall try and take on board. I am the world's most exasperated person at times, and reading the above made me realise the futility of such exasperation!!! I shall save my rants for pointless authority from now on, and hopefully not become a road-rage statistic!!

Yours chilled to the max

STEVE
Fight and Flight - Lud
Thank you Stevied, but I'm not as chilled as all that. I may not flash, toot or give people an angry stare but I may well mutter a string of obscenities, sometimes offending passengers although they get used to it.

The road is bad enough already though without people making their very real impatience, scorn or disdapproval public. Question of comportment!

Yours, seething secretly as often as not,
Fight and Flight - No FM2R
I am the world's most exasperated person at times


I used to be Mr. Road Rage. THe man most likely to leap out of his car at a traffic queue, cut you up, brake in fropnt of you, gesticulate, abuse and annoy you - anything if you had dared to inconvenience me one iota.

Then I moved around the world and picked up on a few things...

1) Life is too short
2) You can get shot for abusing the wrong people in traffic
3) I don't need to die of a stress-induced heart attack

In the scheme of things driving at 40mph instead of 50mph is just too small a deal to care about. If you want to drive in front of me at 10mph less than the speed limits, do so. I shall probably overtake when I can, I'd appreciate your cooperation in facilitating that, but you won't annoy me, wind me up, or cause me undue stress. The chances of me abusing you, waving to you, or driving inappropriately aroudn you are very small.

Like I said, life is too short and it really doesn't matter that much.
Fight and Flight - DP
Although it can be hard to resist the flash or toot
either of disapproval or to remind someone courteously that you want
them to get out of your damn way because they easily
can and should, I find that thank-you waves, mouthings and flashes
or toots are better for the soul and better for the
general atmosphere on the road.


I couldn't agree more.

Accelerating down a slip road to join the M3 yesterday, an MPV of some description already on the carriageway graciously moved across to lane 2 to allow me to join. I was in a hurry and accelerating hard (for a Mondeo TD), and by the time I got to the end of the slip road I was comfortably in front of him (and hence he needn't have actually moved over). As he signalled to pull back in behind me I gave a flash of the hazards in thanks, to receive a cheery flash of the lights and a wave in return.

Cost nothing, and certainly made my journey a little more pleasurable - hopefully his too.

Cheers
DP
Fight and Flight - artful dodger {P}
On Saturday I was driving down the A21 to go to Bodium Castle. For about 10 miles I followed an old Fiat Punto who thought 40mph (maximum) was an acceptable speed, whereas most traffic would drive this section at a steady and acceptable 50mph. The queue behind me was probably about 50 vehicles as there was no really safe place to overtake due to the amount of oncoming traffic.

Finally we approached a roundabout, the woman driver indicated right and pulled to the outside lane of the 2 lane approach, with me behind. Great, at last I can drive at a more acceptable speed as the next section was dual carriageway.

Shock horror she decides to go straight across, staying on the A21, but in the outside lane. The car on the nearside was not fast off the mark, but the Punto them became a mobile road block (with her left hand indicator still on).

I could see she was in deep conversation with her passenger. Flashing my lights made no impression to make her pull into the nearside lane. I tooted my horn - nothing. Tooted again - nothing. Finally I left my hand on the horn for about 10 seconds, she then slowly pulled into the nearside lane about 2 miles after the roundabout.

Both my wife and daughter stared at them as I was finally able to pass, what was most surprising was there was no reaction from this driver - she was still in deep conversation with her passenger. Surprisingly there were 2 young children in the back, that I had not noticed until we passed.

Normally I am a very patient driver, but this driver was completely oblivious to the needs of a huge number of other road users. I did become a grumpy older driver and was glad when I could finally drive at close to the speed limit for a few miles, until............................



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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
Fight and Flight - Westpig
I for one cannot abide undertakers (the car drivers not the men in black), but with idiots like that you can see why some people get tempted and it seems to happen more and more now
Fight and Flight - Altea Ego
Now let me see.,

I travel about 350 motorway miles a week. Some of the worse motorway miles - the M25

I got tooted or flashed about once every 4 weeks., I get cut up about the same and resort to one toot or flash about once every 4 weeks.

So may I ask, why are you appearing to get a disproportionate amount of flashing, tooting and being cut up?


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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Fight and Flight - PoloGirl
"So may I ask, why are you appearing to get a disproportionate amount of flashing, tooting and being cut up?"

I was about to ask the same thing! I do a lot of motorway driving, and can't remember the last time the flashing and tooting was done to me, or the last time I did it to anyone. Fact is I wouldn't do it to anyone because I share Mark's phililosphy on driving (much to the disgust of my partner who will sometimes reach across me, beep *my* horn at someone, and get a slap for it from me) but that's by the by.

Could it be that instead of them cutting you up, you're failing to anticipate their movements, because your eyes are fixed too firmly on your own speedo, making sure you stick to 70mph? Are you in fact holding everyone else up, and they're merely trying to get round you (especially if you're sticking to 70mph in lane 2)?

Just a thought...




Fight and Flight - type's'
I do like your 2nd paragraph pologirl.
I used to complain alot about other peoples driving incompetence and then realised one day that the common denominator in all those instance was me.
I too now try and accomodate as many people as I can when driving and all of a sudden I'm off the valium !

I do not drive many motorway miles but I thought the days of the sales reps flashing headlights in the 80's & 90's was well gone - I have not noticed it at all recently.

The standard of driving is definitely getting worse though - on my way to work with a mixture of single and dual carraigeways (A+B roads) the number of people who feel the need to nip out in front of me later and later when I approach their junction on a roundabout is disturbing as is the number of people who go through red lights seconds after they have changed to red from amber.

Fight and Flight - likerocks
Sorry guys, the answer is in the Highway Code.

The only legitimate use of a flash of the lights or sounding the horn is to alert another road user to your presence.

A retrospective flash or toot serves no purpose in terms of road safety. It only winds people up. If someone is oblivious / thoughtless enough to have caused you to take evasive action in the first place, do you really think that your "reprimand" is going to be well received?

When confronted by an aggressive or short-tempered retrospective horn blower, I always wonder how brave the same individual would be if someone (say) spilled their pint or pushed into the supermarket queue?

Why not just take satisfaction in your superior anticipation skills and keep the superfluous and cowardly gestures to yourself?
Fight and Flight - turbo11
The older and wiser I have got has generally made me chill out when people make errors.Where their actions are deliberate,unfortunately I bite every time(guess its just in my nature-described to me as that of an alpha male).when driving down my road and giving way to oncoming traffic which has pulled out on to my side of the road due to cars parked on their side-not a wave or thank you.That really winds me up,like people not thanking you for holding open a door.Maybe I am old fashioned but manners cost nothing.Anyway thats that off my chest.Hope you all have a nice chilled weekend all BR's.
Fight and Flight - mr.freezer
Only my opinion but...... to me the proportion of toots and flashing rises during the weekend and on bank holidays as people not used to road etiquette and looking for justification for spending a fortune on something that sits on the driveway all week drive along in a world of their own or think it is their devine right to sit in the outside lane.

I drive 40 to 50 thousand miles a year as do many of my colleagues. The vast majority of us never really use the horn and I would never flash my lights aggressively.

If we got upset at every dodgy event that unfolds infront of us on the road we would all be on beta blockers
Fight and Flight - bell boy
mmmmmmmmmmmm beta blockers........... :-)
Fight and Flight - Lud
Of course mr f, we British hardly touch the thing although foreigners do a lot of beeping...

are you all right om? Bad things those...
Fight and Flight - Altea Ego
Beta blockers?

Is that the new name for Lancia body filler?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Fight and Flight - y2k+4
I must admit Wednesday I got a touch of the road rage about me. Having sat for 2 hours on the M42 barely moving, and having got off onto a dual carriageway, I was toddling along in the left=hand lane when I saw a Citroen Xsara estate heading toward the slip road ahead of me. So I moved over to let it in. Only rather than actually look around the driver decides the left-hand lane wasn't good enough (wants to overtake a lorry some distance ahead presumably) and literally pulled right into my path, causing heavy braking. Anger overtook me. Having sat patiently for the last 2 hours, something just took over. I honked the horn to let her know her mistake and she pulled back in once she was in front of the lorry (she never went above 60-65). And then I did something a bit stupid - I got ahead and did the same to her, I pulled in fairly close in front of her she moved into the right-hand lane again, and I moved over there... before taking off.

I almost wish I could say I regretted it. But I don't...she deserved to know what it was like. Do I feel bad I did it? Yes...but my hand was forced. I think it was the same mentality that tells me I can undertake people in the middle lane who aren't overtaking anything and then (assuming there's no traffic) move back into the middle lane and then back into the slow lane. Generally, it must be said, they seem to follow...
Fight and Flight - PW
Must have been unlucky recently but had a few times when been cut up, and beeped the other drive (twice to avoid accident, twice instincts took over, but didn't really need to do it). Bizarre thing is, every time have had a smile and wave of apology, which I returned. If going same route both of us then took extra care over driving to make sure was perfect (looking for moral high ground I guess).

Amazing how quickly an apology difuses a situation.

Fight and Flight - bignick
No journey is sufficiently important to get wound up over (ambulance drivers excepted).
No one deliberately drives dangerously (I hope) so it can only be an inadvertent mistake, which we will all have made occasionally, I know I have and probably will again.

Wonderful quote from my driving instructor back in the '70s when I was cut up at 8.00 am on a major road,
"I never understand someone who is prepared to take those sort of risks to get TO work"
Fight and Flight - Gromit {P}
"No journey is sufficiently important to get wound up over (ambulance drivers excepted). "

What's more, they're trained not to get wound up - after all, a crashed ambulance isn't much help to anyone! But I say that tounge firmly in cheek...its hard not to get annoyed at other drivers from time to time (and yes, I'm sure some of them get annoyed at me too!)
Fight and Flight - oldgit
Propranolol and Diazepam in my case and has been now for thirly odd years - in fact very odd years.
 

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