I think this engine has a timing belt rather than any chain? The belt was changed at 50k but not the tensioners
Does this mean the belt might be slipping? Sounds dodgy if thats the case and needs looking at sooner rather than later.
Ironically, started this morning and no noise!
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The Endura DI engine has a duplex chain driving the fuel pump, with a short belt off the pump pulley driving the cam.
The cambelt, as on all engines, has teeth that engage with matching teeth on the pulleys. This means under normal circumstances the belt cannot slip.
If the belt tension is set too loose, it is possible for the belt to "jump" teeth, or if one of the pulleys seizes it can strip the teeth off the belt. However in both cases you would know about it. In the very best case scenario the engine would run so badly it would be undriveable, but more commonly the engine would stop (and need extensive rebuild work before it would start again) Your cambelt is not slipping.
AFAIK, cambelt tensioners normally squeal or "chirp" if they are on their way out. I had an issue with the auxiliary belt "chirping" on cold starts on my TDDi, but that was unmistakeably a belt type noise. A new tensioner fixed it first time and it never reoccurred.
Cheers
DP
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Cheers for the info folks.
I would guess DP is right - if the belt had slipped I would certainly know about it!
As for the filter, I've used third party filters on every car I've owned for years and never had an issue like this, my understanding was these days the filters are basically made by a handful of companies and branded OEM or other afterwards.
Still not sure whats causing the ticking noise though - the oil and filter were only changed 2k ago so I'm not ready to do that again just yet. Perhaps this will be another intermittent fault to live with, like the sticking throttle, squealing fanbelt, water leak etc etc!!
I guess I'll have to wait until it does it regularly enough so that a garage can hear it.
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are you sure your man is using 5w/30 oil ?
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are you sure your man is using 5w/30 oil ?
That was my original thought, but if its only happenning when hot and not when cold then its due to the oil running away form the tappets and takign time to filll up once the engine is restarted. If the oil was too thick then this would give problems on cold starts more than hot ones.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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AFAIK, these engines use conventional tappets with shim adjustment as opposed to hydraulic lifters. Certainly that's true of the Endura DE on which it's based (and a few other contemporary Ford units), but I suspect you might be on to something by suspecting engine oil.
I wonder if it's anything to do with the fuel pump drive chain. I had an almost identical problem on a motorbike engine with the timing chain ticking for a few seconds after startup and then going quiet.
It sounds EXACTLY like a tappet. In the case of the bike, it started after I used a different brand of oil to normal on an oil change. I put up with the noise for about a week, and then drained it and refilled with the usual brand. The noise has not reoccurred since.
Obviously a very different engine, but the symptoms are the same. I don't know how this chain is lubricated and tensioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if it runs in some kind of oil bath.
I will do some research (my Fiesta manual covers this engine)
Cheers
DP
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I'm not 100% sure what oil went in, I would hope he put in the recommended 5w/30 but you never know!
I suppose another oil & filter change with specified oil might be worth doing, the wrong type of oil will only cause more problems further along the line.
If Ford Rapidfit do it for £30, then thats not too bad, I pay £25-30 anyway at an independant! (Presumably £20 for the oil and filter change, and £10 to wrestle with the engine undertray!)
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I'd say it was the filter, Ford (Motorcraft) filters came out well in some tests (previously mentioned on here somewhere) and have a good quality non-returne valve. Some of the others tested had poor non-return valves which leaked. I had the same symptom on a Mondeo 1.8 petrol where I had fitted an own brand filter from a well known motor accessories chain (and I had used the same brand before with no problem), on the next oil change I used a Ford filter and the noise didn't re-occur and I've always used the Ford ones since on subsequent Fords I've owned. IMO the other branded ones tend to vary in quality more than the originals. I'd change the filter, no need to change the oil again yet, just top up to replace what is lost from the filter change (which won't be much if its got a poor non-return valve), what have you goot to loose, about £8 for a filter.
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I keep reading this about ford filters more than any other make.
Ford dont make their own filters, they buy them in. I believe they source them from more than 1 supplier too.
As long as you are fitting a quality oil filter from a reliable supplier then you will have no problems. Brands I would use include Mahle (the best?), Bosch, Fram, Wix, Crossland, Coopers, and Blueprint for Japanese. others too but I cant think of brands off top of head.
In my umpteen years of fitting 100's (even 1000's) of filters I have never had a faulty one yet. I really dont understand how other people seem to have had so many faulty ones!
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to be fair robcars we arent saying faulty we are saying that sometimes an original oe filter is better than a locally purchased one as there are so many copies about these days its easy to get fooled by a copy (not so long ago i saw some plugs that said something like ngp on the side)
ive had many cars over the years that an oil and filter will get rid of a noise that could kill an engine or a sale, particularly bad for this death rattle are vauxhalls and the filters for these are pennies if you are a trade club member of your local dealer,also the specified oil for this car is dear even to me so its not something you want to slop around like acup of tea with a cheap tea bag.....
no offence meant.....sorry.........
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Got no problems with your comments.
personally i will always use a mahle filter if available in preference to any supplied by a dealer. have you never been to a dealer for a filter, to be told its out of stock, and will be in later in the day.
on return its a non "genuine" part they have bought in locally and passing off as a "genuine".
Have seen parts fitted on cars other than filters too that have been bought in locally.
Thats the main reason I won't buy from a dealer unless I have to. if its ok for them to use other parts and charge their own prices then I would prefer to buy quality parts direct.
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Mahle make pistons, not filters. I wonder if you mean Mann (as in Mann & Hummel) which came out best in my tests?
659.
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With good humoured respect, on the vast majority of engines, you would never know if the filter you fitted was good or bad.
If an engine has a timing chain which is hydraulically tensioned by the oil pressure, it will rattle on start up if oil pressure build up is delayed. A screw on oil filter needs an anti-drain valve for these applications (and should have one anyway for the benefit of the bearings) unless it is installed open end up.
I had such an engine which was very prone to this type of rattle unless either an OE (original equipment) filter was fitted, or a few others. As used oil filters are free from my engineering friends, I set about the messy task of sectioning them.
The differences were amazing. Many filters were poorly made (one rattled) with a thin rubber washer as an anti-drain valve. Useless with hot oil. It might not be fair to print the results as I did this test some time ago, but the best filter I found, by a long way, was made by Mann & Hummel. This turned out to be the make of the OE filter for my car (Swedish SAAB with B-series engine, duplex chain).
Unless you are as interested in engineering detail as I am, just buy an OE filter.
659.
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mahle the piston company do make filters.
In my opinion the best without any doubt, way in front of others.
they specify exact, and will not guarantee any filter if it has been fitted by cross reference to get number rather than their application.
Try them for BM and Jag filters among others ( they supply many oe by the way).
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Yeah, Mahle are very good filters, and have a manufacturing place in the South of England somewhere (Wiltshire?). Fram also very good so if thats fitted, its as good as a Motorcraft one!
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Thats a lot of information about filters I never knew! I think I'll get the oil and filter changed again, and for the sake of argument use an OE filter and see how it goes over the next couple of months.
I've used non-OEM filters on a wide variety of cars for many years and never had a problem, but there is always a first time - perhaps I simply have a dodgy filter.
Thanks for all the info and advice!
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