This is about the USA but I'm sure you guys on the other side of the pond should find it interesting too.
"And under these guidelines by the Environmental Protection Agency, carmakers are allowed to test miles per gallon by running the vehicle not on the road, but on what's essentially a treadmill for cars.
During an EPA spot check, the car ran with no air conditioning, no inclines or hills, no wind resistance and at speeds no greater than 60 mph."
"For example, Chrysler says the four-wheel drive diesel version of the Jeep Liberty gets 22 mpg in the city. Consumer Reports tested it and found it got more like 11 mpg.
Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
Chevy's Trailblazer EXT four-wheel drive is supposed to get 15 mpg in the city. For Consumer Reports, it was 9 mpg.
"It's an unrealistic sales and marketing tool that they are actually using. They are saying you're going to get 35 mpg, and you're really only going to get 21," Champion said."[/i]
More - news.yahoo.com/s/kcra/20060508/lo_kcra/3452610
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Almost looks like the EPA got a nice wad of cash in an envelope for these 'realistic' tests. As for consumer reports, I'd imagine it would greatly depend on driving style.
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True. But im sure consumer reports drives the cars more on the conservative side if anything. I don?t really see them doing a big study like this and having the test drives peal out and redline each gear?
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I dont know if you read the whole article but here is the track details -
"The Consumer Reports' auto test track in Connecticut looks like it could be a new theme park in Orlando."
"First, they put them through a simulated city course. Next the highway -- a real highway. For the third test, they take the car out on a 150-mile day trip throughout Connecticut."
"Carmakers know their number is up. Several have been to Consumer Reports' test track to see how they test real world conditions."
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I do 10,000 miles a year, predominantly single carriageway rural roads and around town. In the 14k miles I've had my latest car (2.0 petrol Focus) it has averaged 37.4 mpg overall. The official combined figure is 32.5 mpg, so I've got no complaints. In fact, with all the cars I've had I've always been able to get better than the official combined figure. I don't thrash my cars unmercilously, but on the other hand I don't drive them with economy in mind either. Judging by the fact that it is nearly always me wanting to overtake someone rather than the other way round (motorways excluded) I would think I drive faster than most.
--
L\'escargot.
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There is no suggestion that the figures obtained in a testing regime can be obtained in use on the road. However if the tests suggest that car A does X mpg and Car B does X+10 mpg, it is reasonable to infer that the 10 mpg difference can be obtained. What is hard to determine is the X bit! Over 2 years I have got 52 mpg in winter and 55 mpg in summer, from a 110 bhp 1600cc Hdi in a 307. Again, these are from the computer, not a manual calculation using brim-to-brim fillups and a calculator! All it proves to me is that I get slightly better mpg in warm weather!
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We have just been told to start getting VAT receipts in order for our mileage claims to be paid. As a result I am now getting a record of the fuel I am using. I've put in 82 litres in the last month and done 784 miles - that's 43.5 mpg. The majority of this is urban rush hour driving to and from work - 7 miles each way (takes up to 30 minutes) and a couple of motorway trips to Sheffield, 40 miles each way. Climate control on continually.
Audi offical figures for urban on the A3 DSG is about 40, so I have no complaints.
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2004 Vectra 1.9 CDTI 150...
I do 20,000 miles a year, mostly on Motorways and I'm getting an average of 49.4mpg of the last 6,000 miles (since I've had the car).
That includes a fair amount of short journeys, town use for the first half hour of the mornings journey and the usual queues on the M6, or M42 depending on which hell I choose that day...
That's a couple of mpg better than the official combined, so I'm happy with it.
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Armitage shanks, I don't follow your logic in your sentence, ''However if the tests suggest that car A does X mpg and Car B does X+10 mpg, it is reasonable to infer that the 10 mpg difference can be obtained''. If car A did 50 mpg in these tests, but only 25 mpg in reality, but car B did 25 mpg in these tests, the question is how much would it do in reality? Using the formula you propose the answer would be 0 mpg, if I understand you correctly. However I think the answer would be 12.5 mpg for car B.
If my logic is correct, their is no X+anything. Rather it is simply a case of cars getting a set proportion of their stated mpg figures, in the example I used above the proportion would be 1/2. I would expect this 'proportion' effect to change for diffrent cars, and how they are used, but can't see how you would get the effect in practise that is required from your formula.
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Yes, I've always found the claims that manufacturers in the USA make for fuel consumption to be a long way wide of reality. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4x4 (smaller than the Liberty I believe) and got around 11mpg average. I did better than the 9mpg quoted with a Chevy Trailblazer EXT 4x4 though - I managed 10mpg average! Admittedly this was with a lot of stop start driving. I had both of these vehicles for a period of a couple of weeks each. Although fuel is still cheap in the USA by European standards, it's annoying having to stop so often to fill up.
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Err, not enough.
That does bot really help I suppose. But the Mondeo 1.8 SCi, I have owned from nearly new has rarely exceeded 30 mpg with between 26-28 being the norm. It was at it's worst when doing mainly motorway miles. Which made the poor consumption all the more puzzling as I was never hammering it and never stuck in a stationary position for long as the time on road was very early morning or lunchtime, two not very busy periods.
This was relayed to Ford on many occasions but they were not interested. Having said that I believe this engine has been dropped from the range. Which says it all really. It has been an unreliable lump from the start. Far too many bits going wrong. In fact yesterday, it had the whole timing chain mechanism replaced, sprockets, chain, tensioner, the lot.
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56 MPG without trying. 60 with a light foot.
Megane 1.5 dCi
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being anally fixated with money, SWMBO and I keep detailed records for all our cars - mileage fuel etc.
Peugeot 106XRD 1.4 diesel 54.5mpg (aveage journey length 1.5 miles).
2001 Fiesta 1.6 Ghia - aircon always on average journey length 7 miles - 39.2mpg.
No I don't drive at 25mp but do observe speed limits.
Cars maintained regularly to the book.
madf
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My 2.0 omega manages a fairly consistent 39-41 mpg om my daily commute, 63 miles at an average 45 mph; I think that's pretty close to the official extra urban figure.
It gets an oil change every 10000 miles - ish-, other non-safety related items get looked at if the economy starts to drop, like when my O2 sensor went a few months back.
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4 month old diesel Accord Tourer gets about 40 mpg (now there's a surprise!) - 75% motorway cruising, the rest urban. Not exactly driven gently, but not thrashed either. Climate on almost all the time, and mostly using normal Shell diesel, gets more like 44 mpg on BP ultimate, but I've moved and there's nowhere easy to get it round here.
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Nissan Almera 2.2 dCi 136 SXE - 40,9 mpg over the last 12,000 miles. Despite 6 speed gearbox and 75% of my driving being on motorway it's far from 47mpg suggested by manufacturer. Strangely enough, in my previous Almera (in SE trim) I could easily achieve 49-51mpg...
--------------------
[Nissan dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Audi A3 2.0TDI owned from new. Average since new of 47mpg. Government figure is 50.9mpg.
Driven hard in town = 39-42mpg
Driven normally = 46-49mpg
Recently I've been driving more gently, up to 60mph on 'normal' roads as usual, but limiting myself to 65mph cruise and 70mph max on the motorway, with a resulting average of 59-62mpg. That's not per journey, that's over a tank. I was getting 500 miles tank full to red light, currently I'm on 570 miles since last filled and not down to 1/4 tank yet.
All consumption checked brim to brim fuel filling... go figure. I've never 'not' beaten the book figure in a reasonably high power car and usually make the book figure on a 1.6 or similar.
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OK, but most here seem to be not from the US. The EU testing methods seem to be more realistic as everybody *is* saying they get roughly what the manufacturer claims, or better. The EU got something right! The US has a terrible reputation of protectionism and lobbying all behind a veneer of concern for emissions. Whilst this may be news it is hardly unsurprising. Nothing personal, but US emissions regs/discussions/policy have very little to do with emissions (well not in the good sense).
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Maybe slightly off-topic, but for anyone comparing over-the-pond mpg figures, remember that 10mpg US = 12mpg Euro.
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Bagpuss the Jeep Cherokee is actually a lot bigger than the Liberty. The Liberty is the mini-SUV.
And all I can say to what you guys have written is I just don?t get it. There have been 3 or 4 people saying they get around 40 mpg?!?!? I can?t think of a single car sold in the USA that gets that kind of gas mileage! Maybe the Prius or something would make the claim and then be more like 35 in reality. And the manufactures don?t even try to clam the cars do that well. Even the little 1.5L Mazda's etc here would get 30 to 32 max!! How on earth are you guys getting 45mpg from a 2.0L?? You guys must get some kind of miracle gas or something!
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P.S. the 1.5L Honda Fit which is just going on sale here for the first time lists as 38 MPG and this is one of the most fuel efficient non-hybrid cars sold here! Again how can you claim to get 40+ out of a heavy 2.0L Audi?!?!
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CTGD. The Audi 2.0 litre petrol is given figures of Urban 24.4, Extra urban 46.3 and Combined 34.9 (in UK Gallons). The 2.0 litre diesel has 36.2/62.8/49.7. Which Audi's 2.0.l figures were you doubting? The petrol is close and the diesel does it easily. I don't know what a Honda Fit is but all the 3 small Hondas sold in UK (Jazz, Civic Hatch and Civic Saloon) return 48.7 mpg or better, on the combined cycle.
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The honda "fit" is the same as the Honda "jazz" and Honda says it does 38 MPG here. So something is not right. You guys must have bigger "gallons".
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P.S. the 1.5L Honda Fit which is just going on sale here for the first time lists as 38 MPG and this is one of the most fuel efficient non-hybrid cars sold here! Again how can you claim to get 40+ out of a heavy 2.0L Audi?!?!
As Andy T says, remember 1 UK gallon = 1.2 US gallons. So for the Honda Fit, 38mpg US equals 45.6mpg UK.
My old-tech Saab 9-3 2.2 diesel will do 50mpg if I drive it carefully, but convert that to US gallons, and it only comes out at 41.6mpg.
Other factors may increase mpg also such as fuel quality and octane number. I believe regular gas in the US is 87 octane? In the UK standard petrol is 95 octane, which can contribute to better mpg, improving it more than just the result of the 1.2x gallon calculation.
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Yes we have 3 grades here 87 - 89 - 91. I always pay the extra 20 cents per gal for the 91. Also and this is new (well new in that its really being pushed everywhere now) the middle grade (89) is 10% ethanol but has the same price as the 87. That way they advertise that you are getting 89 gas for the price of 87 gas and helping lower our dependency for oil by using the 10% ethanol (corn) fuel.
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Also and this is new (well new inthat its really being pushed everywhere now) the middle grade (89) is 10% ethanol but has the same price as the 87. That way they advertise that you are getting 89 gas for the price of 87 gas and helping lower our dependency for oil by using the 10% ethanol (corn) fuel.
Thats very interesting, is the 10% ethanol fuel widely available? Sounds like the US is further down the road of using renewable fuels than we are in the UK. The UK Govt. like to talk about it, but seem to be doing nothing about increasing availability of renewable fuels.
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Also bear in mind that US octane ratings are not measured as RON, they are (IIRC) half way between RON & MON. So 91 octane US gas is more like 96 octane RON here.
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We do!
Maybe slightly off-topic, but for anyone comparing over-the-pond mpg figures, remember that 10mpg US = 12mpg Euro.
Posted earlier today
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Since this is obviously a group that like to really dissect a topic answer me this- How do they get those octane numbers? What does 91 mean? It?s not a percentage is it? We know it?s not 91% octane! Is it a parts per gallon count? Because if that?s the case it would make your octane #s higher for the very same gas. Kind of like the difference in MPG #s on cars because you have a bigger ?gallon?. There would be more parts in the larger gallon. If you understand what I?m asking. I have no idea how they get that # does anyone else?
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Forget what I said earlier about our fuel being higher octane, I just read this and our fuel seems to be different because it is measured differently:
www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.ht...l
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Petrol
Octane Number
Octane is a measure of resistance to knock in a spark ignition engine on a scale where iso-octane is taken as having a value of 100. It is a measure of the speed of spontaneous combustion (not spark-ignited combustion) - higher octane means lower spontaneous combustion speed. Research Octane Number (RON) is used to identify a grade of fuel at the dispenser and is often associated with performance. Higher compression engines give a better performance and/or better fuel consumption than otherwise identical lower compression engines but require a gasoline of higher octane quality. The fuel itself doesn't contain more energy per kg than a lower octane fuel but does require more energy to manufacture.
Markets with several grades of fuel usually differentiate these by octane, eg a 91, 95 and 98 RON fuel. In Europe, the 95 grade has become the standard or premium grade. In markets with only two grades, surveys are carried out to determine the minimum acceptable quality of the higher octane grade. The lower grade is self-selecting.
Octane is also measured using Motor Octane Number (MON). RON measures knock resistance during acceleration and hill climbing and MON at high speeds.
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Two cars, each doing 12K p.a. pf mixed driving - suburban crawl, open roads and motorway. Aircon always on:
Seat Leon 1.6 does 34 mpg on normal unleaded, 37 on optimax.
Honda CRV petrol does 24 mpg on either.
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46 mpg from my Peugeot 406 2.0 HDi diesel - mainly highway miles but at least one traffic jam every day. That's a sedan about the size of a Chevy Cobalt.
That equates to 38.30 miles per US gallon in everyday use.
Easy conversion method - type x miles per imperial gallon in miles per gallon into Google and it does the conversion for you.
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406 HDi (90)
Winter: 52mpg UK = 43.3mpg US
Summer: 59mpg UK = 49mpg US
2/3 very careful motorway driving, the rest in heavy traffic.
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Even the little 1.5L Mazda's etc here would get 30 to 32 max!! How on earth are you guys getting 45mpg from a 2.0L?? You guys must get some kind of miracle gas or something!
Pretty close at a guess - at least half of the improvement is because we're good with using Diesel in our cars as well as our Trucks. Our diesel is an order of magnitude lower in sulphur than your diesel so there aren't the same emissions problems and we have pretty stringent regs on diesels to reduce emissions. Some people still see a smoke problem with them but this is becoming more rare and largely a result of deposits in the exhaust.
Our gas is not only higher octane but also lower in sulpher again, and as you mentioned some of your blends of gas are 10% ethanol, which would get lower gas mileage too as there is less energy in the fuel.
I made a note of some of the milages I've gotten out of cars I've driven at work and some of them are pretty close to what you're quote to be honest:
Audi S4 4.2v8: 24mpg (20mpg us)
Audi TT3.2: 35mpg (29mpg us)
Audi A4 3.0TDI (diesel): 50mpg (41.5mpg us)
Audi A8 3.0TDI (diesel): 42mpg (35mpg us)
I guess most of the difference is down to what we drive, how we drive it and so on. Those are the only cars I made note of the figures I got, as most cars you can only go by the trip computer rather than brim to brim filling. All those figures are also obtained doing distance driving rather than town driving. Drive the S4 in town and you soon see 10mpg (us)...
Regards
Chris
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>how many MPG does your car really get ?
skoda octavia 1.9tdi, mainly urban driving,
47.95 mpg over the past 38279 miles
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Go on, get out of the car...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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>how many MPG does your car really get ?
skoda octavia 1.9tdi, mainly dual carriageway, some urban but also some with caravan (30ish mpg)
54.8mpg over nearly 65000 miles
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Interesting that the last two posts have been back-to-back with two owners of identical cars in each but significant variations in economy (and I was happy enough with mine, to be honest.)
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I don't know anymore. When I did the test, low twenties but I've tried to blank that experiment out.
I put 20 quid in when the light comes on and I'm happy. It helps insulate me from the cost of petrol too. Try it - you don't feel like you're putting much in and you can play games to see how far on the red light you can drive it. You can try and beat your last score every time!
Great fun.
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you can play games to see how far on the red light you can drive it. You can try and beat your last score every time!
Sounds like a relatively harmless version of Russian Roulette! But one day, Adamski, one day ........ !
--
L\'escargot.
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One day there was actually a bullet in the chamber Snaily!
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Panic not Adam. I still get low twenties too. Recently have got up to 27mpg, but it won't last. Even my colleagues F reg Cavalier 2.0CDi get 30 ish - the git.
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The great thing about mine Alastair is that you can drive it as hard as you want or as gentle as you want and it doesn't seem to make the sligtest bit of difference.
So technically, I'm happy.
Technically.
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The great thing about mine Alastair is that you can drive it as hard as you want or as gentle as you want and it doesn't seem to make the sligtest bit of difference.
Technically that's because when you pussy foot an engine it's working at a lower efficiency and therefore a higher fuel draw so if you ultimately demand the same total power output from the engine over time it will use more fuel, since when you drive more gently you ask for slightly less power it works out about even as you've seen. Friend has a 1.6 Escort and drives it more or less like you describe your driving and he gets 32mpg on average from it.
It's all about the anticipation - I try and do a journey from uni to home (135 miles) braking only twice, both times for traffic lights. I usually manage it, even in rush hour.
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Used to get 40ish from a G reg Cav 2.0 CDi if I drobe like a vicar!
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Yes but one was 'mainly urban' and the other was 'mainly dual carriageway'. Shows that a nice steady speed, even quite a high average, is better than a lot of stop/start and wasting fuel by braking etc.
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Interesting that the last two posts have been back-to-back with two owners of identical cars in each but significant variations in economy (and I was happy enough with mine, to be honest.)
The significant difference in the use probably accounts for it, one being mainly urban driving and the other mainly dual carriageway.
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'99 Primera 1.6. My typical is around 37/8mpg. So far lowest was 31mpg (2 X 8 mile daily runs, much in urban jams, with some aircon). Highest 47mpg (2 X 32 mile daily cross coutry town to town on A-roads). Duration spent in congested stop/start traffic is the key factor. Stationary means 0 MPG.
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hyundai terracan 2.9 manual diesel. mainly motorway - 25 to 27mpg
------------------------------------------------
Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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I never bothered to do any calculations on our Xantia 1.9 TD, apart from noting how far it travelled on a full tank. This was invariably around 600 miles or more, which worked out to about 42 mpg, over the 12 years we had the car.
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Dont know how accurate the trip computer is , but the average for the last 1700 odd miles on my 51 Reg 1.9 TDI 130 bhp Passat shows as !58.9 mpg!!
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VW Trip computers are a little optimistic. I just completed a run of 520 miles, filled up with 50 litres of diesel and achieved 47.3 mpg by my calculation = 520/(50/4.54)
The Trip computer thinks I did 50.2 mpg.
-------------------
VW Bora (51) 2.0 SE
VW Touran (54) 1.9 TDI
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My Skoda Superb 1.9 pd 100 is a little pessimistic by 1-2 mpg. It usually reads just over 50 mpg but actually does 52mpg.
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My 99 1.6 primera would never beter 27 to 28 around town & i never got better than 39 on a run
Interesting note over the last 15 years since i met mrsmm we have regualry do the journey Bangor Gwyned to Gt Yarmouth to visit her family & vice versa the fuel consumptions for various cars may be of interest
1984 Passat GL5 Est 37 MPG
1986 Golf 1.6 39 MPG
1988 Golf 1.8 41 MPG
1992 Granada 2L Est 33 MPG
1994 Passat 1.9 TDI 47 MPG
1999 Primera 1.6 Est 37 MPG
1982 Range Rover 3.5 16 MPG
1972 vw Type 2 Camper 32MPG
1989 Renault Traffic 2.1D Camper 31 MPG
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Forgot to mention present car
03 Rover75 2.0 cdti Tourer 43MPG
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1993 Polo, 1043cc, 4 speed, 111500 miles:
Last seven calculations gave:
53.9
43.1
46.6 Head gasket failed
42.1 2 Garage visits (wouldn't start/run properly)
56.5
44.2 Holidaying (fully laden over N'Yorkshire moors)
40.4 See above + town driving when we got back
Average: Rather disappointing 47 mpg (39 US mpg)
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Toad the Supra is not a winner here; still, he does get into double figures, on his occasional outings. And I once had a Mazda RX4 rotary which passed to my brother, who made the mistake of checking mpg; he got about 13!
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My brothers 1993 VW Passat 2.0 CL estate gets a remarkable 43-46 mpg on a daily 50 miles commute. Amazing for a 2.0 litre petrol.
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On the subject of total number of miles, I fill up the Passat with approx 56 litres,when the fuel warning light flashes and then drive on about 650-690 miles until the warning light again flashes, so really quite good.
Mind you, this is nearly all motorway miles though.
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L Reg Audi 80 2.0 (113000 miles)
66 litre/14.5 gal = 430 miles (31MPG) 50% m'way/50 urban
Ive just learnd to live it, love the car though
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