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what other newish car bodies other than the v/w passat are galvanised. why is this not a strong plus point when buying a used car
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It seems to be just German metal thats galvanised IIRC.
It is a strong point in resale - its part of the reason that most wermacht wagons command a high resale value - cos you know it wont rust.
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It's not just the Germans - the Fiat Tipo body was heavily galvanised - not to mention the Citroen XM and other French cars of more than a decade ago. Don't think you'll find many rusty examples of either. Tends to shoot down the value proposition, n'est-ce-pas?
I think they didn't advertise this as heavily at the time as some other car makers.
David
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Volvos too, my 10 year old 940 has much less rust than a 10 day old rover / MG product
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I saw a Tipo with rusty sills a while ago. I suspect Italian galvanising is not quite as good as German - or maybe it had been accident damaged. The trouble with galvaising is that you can only do the whole bodyshell - any subsequent repairs are non-galvanised and will rust. My Audi Coupe is galvanised - not a spot of rust at 12 years old.
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There are two types of galvanised cars. One's where the parts are galvanised and then welded together which provides good protection. If you want to go one further you build the whole car and then dump it in a bath of zinc.
Most cars fall into the former category and it works pretty well (it's a long while since I saw a modern car rust, except an escort) I believe the original Espace was the first car to be entirely hot dip galvanised. Apparently Renault were able to offset the extra weight against the stronger structure gained through this process.
Now try to imagine a bath of molton zinc large enough to take an espace..
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Actually, it was just the chassis that was galvanised - the body is plastic (which doesn't rust much either, of course). Zinc needs careful painting, though - my Audi has some amateur paint on it that has blistered horribly, but the whole car is still utterly rust-free and about to celebrate its 13th birthday...
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The other trouble is that it adds a great deal of weight.
modern treatments are lighter,cheaper,easier to replicate on repairs,and sufficiently durable.
I have never seen the point in making a vehicle body capable of withstanding casual abuse for more than 15 years.At that point 99% of vehicles are a danger to their owners and other road users,if only because they are dynamically worse than the average member of the traffic stream.
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The new type Clio's are galvanised, apart from the front wings being made of plastic.
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Robin
Most drivers are dynamically much worse than the car they are driving. How many drivers get anywhere near exploring the handling or braking limits of the vehicles they drive? I realise you are keen to see all old vehicles banned (judging by some of your previous posts), but this is something of a red herring. My 15 year old Golf 1.8GL (recently sold to a work colleague, still going strong) would outrun a friend's 5 year old Golf on any twisty road, without even trying, and the brakes, steering and general handling never felt anything less than totally reassuring. Or perhaps this car represents the other 1%?
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The Focus (and Mondeo?) are galvanised.
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About 3 to 4 weeks ago SWMBO collected a dent in the back of the Xantia (99 model). Not her fault, but some dozy parker's.
The crease has exposed bare metal that still shows no sign of rust. I didn't think Citroens were galvanised, but if this is just electrophoretic treatment then it's very good.
Must mend it soon.
Ian
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phil
Galvanised cars:
Current model Astra and Corsa.
BMW I believe.
I'm assuming these are built of galvanised steel, rather than galvanised post construction.
regards
john
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Skoda
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Even more important than a galvanised coating is the scrap content of the steel used to make the car - blast furnace manufactured steel was smelted at far higher temperatures ( with more of the scrap content being burnt off ) than the the steel produced by today's methods (cheaper, lower temperature electric arc). If there is remaining contamination inside the new metal, then no amount of galvanising will stop it eventually bubbling through the paint to the surface.
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Full galvanising is all very noble but the two BXs we've just retired at 11 and 12 years old hadn't a spot of rust between them, either on top surfaces or the underbody.
Good design of the body sections and proper convertional treatment seems to have worked.
David
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From memory, at least until 1998, most models sold in UK were galvanised except for Rovers and Hondas. I seem to recall from a previous thread on this subject that HJ said new Hondas are now galvanised. That leaves Rover as the only make that may not be galvanised.
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I recall that in the old British Leyland days, when they got their raw material from Pressed Steel Fisher, that PSF offered a ready-galvanised steel sheet that was weldable (the usual stumbling block) and BL turned it down flat, on the grounds that they didn't want their cars to last any longer! Presumably, it didn't occur to Lord Stokes that having cars that lasted might make them more desirable...
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Nowadays, with most modern cars, the deciding factor on when to scrap a car will not be rust - but it will instead be the cost of replacing/servicing ABS, airbag-systems, and all the other electronics and safety systems, at 10 years plus. I believe airbags+systems need replacing at 10 years.
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I'm sure there was more substance to the claimed BL rejection of pre-galvanised steel than simply body-life against cost.
In galvanising -- which is actually a misnomer since no galvanic (electrical) action takes place -- sheet steel is given a protective coating by fluxing then hot dipping in molten zinc. The melting point of zinc is about 420 degrees C and it boils at under 1000 degrees so spotwelding, which requires a temperature at the weld of 1600 degrees or more, is unlikely to be viable.
The zinc in the area of the spotwelds would (a) impede the integrity of the spotweld, (b) evaporate to cause a serious health hazard and (c) leave behind bare steel. Braze welding or mechanical fastening (e.g. nuts and bolts) could be used with pre-galvanised steel but this is not economical or desirable for major car body structures.
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A couple of the Fords that I owned in my younger days e.g. Mk1 Cortina, had "shelves" around the headlights that used to collect mud, resulting in the wing rusting out PDQ.
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When the column first began an older reader took me to task for mentioning galvanizing. He even sent me two bits of metal to illustrate the difference between hot dip galvanizing and electro galvanizing. Hot dip is much more durable but leaves a rough surface which cannot be smoothly painted, so is fine for a vehicle with plastic outer panels like the Espace. Electro provides a smooth surface for outer body panels, but not the same level of protection. The way to tell if a car is galvanized or not is to check its no perforation body warranty. 6 years or less and it isn't galvanized (Hondas fit this category). 8 years and it's FIAT electro galvanized. 10 years or more and it's properly electro-galvanized. Even Citroens are these days.
HJ
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HJ
Vauxhall claim a 'fully galvanised' bodyshell (undoubtedly electrogalvanised for the reasons you mention) on the current Corsa & Astra but the bodyshell anti-perforation guarantee is only 6 years.
regards
john
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My family (and later me) had an '86 Toyota Carina II. At 4 years old my mother ran it through a gatepost and scraped a stripe an inch wide across the rear wheelarch. This remained untreated untill I sold the car at 12 years old. At this point the scratch had nothing more than a light coating of rust.
Says something for building the cars out of good quality steel in the first place.
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Its surprising how progress creeps up on you unnoticed.
My 7 year old 405 estate was pretty well as good as anything when I bought it new,yet the Xsara estate it shares the drive with handles better,stops better,and does more mpg.it also feels more solid,much more solid,no doubt due to the fact that its 60Kg heavier.And you can hardly call it state of the art.
The new 307 estate probably is,but when I see its weight i probably wont beleive it.I bet it will need the 2.2 engine ,chipped,to keep up with an xr3i.
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It does,in most areas it represents the other 1%.
Provided it has sufficient engine.
we had a coevel Gti for some years,it was dynamically excellent,but noisy and unrefined to an unecessary extent.For all the fuss you would expect about 150 bhp,not the already only barely enough 112.
But at least it did not have the two hundredweight of unaccountable extra weight of the mark 3.
or the american suspension pack.
or the no extra room.
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