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Burnt out pump??
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Measure reistance of pump and report back. Regards Peter
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Chris
Still need the exact year [3 versions of the 1Z/AHU system; pre 8/97 and post 8/99] but given that it has to be somewhere between'95-01, was it between the green-yellow and brown wires that you measured?
If the relay is faulty [and it shouldn't make that noise] then the voltage, when cranking, on fuel-pump fuse 28 should be missing too. [Also check the voltage on fuse 2.] Pop the top off the relay and look for a messy solder joint on its internal board. Can't say why the direct feed route didn't work; but sometimes it's not easy to bridge these systems as it can have unpredictable side-effects.
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sorry 1998 model, the connector at the pump had four bits, but the pump itself only has two prongs so measured the two that would connect to those.
had relay apart couldn't see anything, fuse 28 is missing yes, will measure at fuse 2 tomorrow, for resistance i assume i just measure across both prongs on fuel pump?
cheers
chris
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ok measured resistance across the pins and it's about 160, whats that mean?
chris
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Do you mean 160 Ohms if so, and that really is the pump, then it is far too high a resistance. Are you sure you are not measuring the pins associates to the fuel level potentiometer. If you are sure it is the pump then retry your direct feed. Regards Peter
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well i chucked everything out the boot, pulled off the only wiring connector i could see then measured the two pins that were there, does that sound like the right place?
chris
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Does one wire supply power to the pump and earth thro' the tank and the other the guage also earthing thro' the tank.
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mmm don't know sorry, how would i find out? i assumed it was 1 live and 1 earth
chris
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Chris,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I think you might achieve a better, quicker, and safer result if you were to call in an auto electrician.
Virtually everything you have said in this thread suggests to me that you aren't really comfortable doing electrical/electronic diagnosis.
The danger I see is that it really is very easy to damage electronic units on cars by feeding 12v to the wrong pin, or even cause a fire - which I why I'm particularly concerned if you are feeding 12v into pins in the fuel tank, when you aren't sure what those pins are, and what they do.
With the best of intentions,
Number_Cruncher
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I agree. Stop what you are doing, I thought originally you knew where the connections are but now clearly not and you could damage something or even blow yourself up so Stop. Regards Peter
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Do you have a manual ? is the main pump in the tank, ? is the tank not plastic so there is no earth return. Regards Peter
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You need to measure the voltage between the green/yellow (supply) and brown (earth) wires at the fuel pump. Should be 12V. Fuse 28 should be intact and correctly fitted.
Note that the fuel pump relay also supplies the MAF and other bits and pieces on the engine management (via fuse 29).
If you pull out the relay and put a jumper across the relay (pins 17-23) then the pump should spring into life. If fuse 28 blows when you do this then either the pump is internally shorted or there is a wiring fault.
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mmm main problem is there's no fuse in holder 28 and lookin at it, it only has 1 receiver for the fuse so there is nor circuit for the fuse to complete
chris
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can nobody help with this? the fuel pump only has 2 connections they are for the sender, there are no visible connections for fuel pump wiring. there are no fuses in holder 28 or 29 in the fuse box or wiring provided for them. i have looked all over the internet and can't find one car that matches this setup so anybody have any ideas?
cheers
chris
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Then logically there is no pump in the tank and the fuel is pumped only by the engine mounted pump.
On the russian parts catalogue there is no in-tank pump listed for an AHU.
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Chris
Remember that I asked for the exact year? Three different systems on an 1.9TDi AHU code? Up to 8/97 - 8/97 to 7/99 and 8/99-on? These details are important. If it really is a '98 car, then it's got an in-tank pump; if it isn't, then it hasn't.
Number Cruncher is right; you must have come very close to blowing yourself up and if the tank unit isn't now fried, you'll be very lucky indeed.
The next question is - if there's no transfer pump relay, what's that fizzing relay? The engine control relay? Describe it's exact location and did you check it for a faulty solder joint or [with the early system] the voltage on fuse 3 in that engine bay box?
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ok first things first, the car is an s reg, i beleive it's a 98 plate buthaven't got v5 with me to check, reg is s255kjr if anybody wants to look.
after a long and frustrating call with audi who originally would not help me as the work wasn't going to them i have found out, the intank pump on my car is the sender only, and that the only fuel pump is the one on the cylinder head, after much playing about i have located two fuzzing relay sounds, one is the black box on the fuel pump shown here,
i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/thomp1983/Image012...g
details of parts are, number on pump 0299619715a, 2 numbers on black box s1738 and 2464463268
the other fuzzing sound appears to be coming from the abs unit on the passenger side wing, but ill not worry about that for now.
the relay i replaced is numbered 219 and is located in the relay box on the bulkhead in the engine bay, picture here, it was quite corroded at the pins and not to healthy looking,
i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/thomp1983/Image013...g
also here are pictures of both the fuse box and relay carrier found at the drivers side of the dash inside the car,
i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/thomp1983/Image014...g
i46.photobucket.com/albums/f109/thomp1983/Image015...g
hope this helps you guys diagnose my fault, and thankyou for your help so far
cheers
chris
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the above help anyone to shed any light on things?
cheers
chris
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Chris
I think it's time to start at the beginning again. So far this has all been chasing guesses and red-herrings and the only solid fact known is that is doesn't start.
So: it doesn't start. When/how did you find that? Was it going OK - or did it just cut-out? Was anything done at the time? Could this be an immobilizer issue? Have you tried another key? The odd buzzes etc. could be quite normal - so lets get the basic facts straight first.
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ok, basic facts, wouldn't start one day after work, ran battery dead trying to start it, after jumpstarting for half an hour it came to life, ran absolutely fine for the 40 miles home. next morning wouldn't start again, has been like that since. only have the one key and the immob light goes out as normal. at time i knew there was an issue with the coolant temp sensor, this has now been fixed still no starting.
where would you start next in diagnosing this?
chris
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Chris
The simplest way is to get a mobile guy to come and read the fault-codes etc. As this is exclusively a starting problem; I'm wondering about glow-plugs/feeds or the fuel shut-off part of the immobilizer unit in the pump. There's no easy way to check that without a code-reader.
Alternatively; this could be a fuel-feed or drainback issue. Tried giving it a sniff of Eezy-Start? Do you get any smoke from the exhaust when cranking it?
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right i have now finally ran vag com on the car using the autoscan function and it reported the following,
VAG-COM Version: Release 311.2-N
Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,25,35,45,55,56
Address 01 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: OBD-II/EOBD, KeyWord:8AC0
Address 03 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 8E0 614 111 AB
Component: ABS 5.3 FRONT D00
Coding: 0273004281
Shop #: BB 24548
No fault code found.
Skipping Address 15-Airbags
Address 17 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 8D0 919 910 K
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D09
Coding: 00440
Shop #: WSC 00000
IMMO-IDENTNR: AUZ7Z0W0566157
1 Fault Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent
Address 25 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: Bitte Adress
Component: e 17 eingeben
No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error ocurred
Address 35 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 8L0 862 257 H
Component: ZV-Pumpe, DWA D05
Coding: 00266
Shop #: WSC 06335
8 Faults Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
35-00 - -
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch: Driver's Side
35-00 - -
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
35-00 - -
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
35-00 - -
01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
35-00 - -
01366 - Opened Due to Crash Signal
35-00 - -
01360 - Switch for Anti-Theft Alarm: Open
29-00 - Short to Ground
Address 45 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 4B0 951 173
Component: Innenraumueberw. D03
Coding: 00101
Shop #: WSC 06335
2 Faults Found:
01377 - Ultra Sonic Sensor for Alarm System: Left (G170)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01378 - Ultra Sonic Sensor for Alarm System: Right (G171)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
End -------------------------------------------------------
does that help anybody in diagnosing my problem or is there any other test i can run with vag com that will help diagnosis?
cheers
chris
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Chris
Nothing obviously significant in that lot; [looks as though you have fried the fuel level sender] - except what's missing. Why hasn't it read the engine and immobilizer ECU's? Can you read any live-data from address 01?
Can you just confirm your earlier reference to "replacing" the 219 relay? Was that with a new one? Was/is there an ignition-on live feed to fuse three in that relay box?
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fuel sender still reads fine. sometimes when i run the auto scan it comes up with can't sync baud rate for address one, does that bear any sgnificance?
can i scan address one using the select control module functon?
also do you know how i reset those fault codes? im usng vag com 311.2
thanks for all yur help so far
chris
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Chris
Sorry; I've never really got on with VAG-COM, so I've no idea exactly how it works. I like scanners that automatically look up any codes and then talk to me in plain English. [OK; they're fifty times the price - but you pays your money...]
Where did you buy it from? Try here for details of using it.
www.onboarddiagnostics.co.uk/diagnostic_tools/vag-.../
What was the answer to the relay/fuse question? That could be crucial.
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relay was from a scrapped w reg audi, ill check the feed first thing tomorrow morning
chris
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right i have been out and measured of ignition on readings in the fusebox on the bulkhad in the engine bay results were,
big 80 amp fuse reads 11.5vots then drops to zero when relay pictured on fuel pump clicks off
25amp fuse read zero full stop.
50amp fuse reads 11.5 then drops to 9.5 whilst relay on pump is clicking away then goes back to 11.5 when relay clicks off
hope this helps in diagnosing my fault
cheers
chris
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Chris
...and the blue 15 amp one?
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sorry,
measures 11.8 then goes up to 12 when relay clicks off
chris
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Chris
That 15A fuse is the feed to the engine ECU. [If you haven't already, pull it out and check it's connexions.] The fact that it's live means that the engine control relay [219] is working OK.
The other fuses are the glow-plugs and the coolant heaters; they're reading broadly as expected. The voltage recovery after the glow-plug timer cuts off, indicates that the plugs are drawing substantial current; so they should be servicable too.
The next test is to try a bit of Eezy-Start. Follow the instructions on the can. I'm edging towards a faulty shut-off solenoid; but it's early days...
Now we know that it should have a feed; any more joy on reading the engine ECU? Might also be a good idea to have a good search for any broken brown earth wires anywhere on the engine.
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can any one help me i have a 1995 audi a4 1.8 petrol the car died on me sound like a fuel problem i replaced the fuel pump relay and fuel pump still dead voltage at fuse his fine but i have no voltage at pump does that mean a broken wire from the fuse to the fuel pump
Edited by stalling on 12/01/2013 at 12:45
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Presumably the fuse is OK? I know it’s a daft question but you never know. The fuel pump fuse for a 95 A4 with an ADR engine is number 28 in the dash side fuse box. The wire you are interested in is a green/yellow at the pump connector pin 1 and this runs through the car to the left front A pillar behind the kick panel trim to a blue 6 point connecter at position 3 and this point can get corroded due to the A4’s propensity for water leaks into the passenger’s side. From the connector it runs uninterrupted to the fuse box at fuse position 28. Check with a multimeter the continuity from point “a” at fuse 28 to the A pillar connector and if that is OK, to the fuel tank connector from the A pillar. If these prove to be OK and power is getting to fuse 28 from the relay then it is probably a faulty fuel pump.
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