There's a category of people who think 3 years and 60,000 warranty means no servicing for 3 years
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and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
i agree wholeheartedly with nofm2r's views on this subject.
after all, where are all the broken down cars on out roads - you would see them daily if there are all these scores of people ill-treating their cars as are the subject of this thread, (and there are many that i know of who also do the same).
in fact, nowadays with all the electronic gadgetry, and advanced engine oils, you rarely see broken down vehicles.
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Dalglish, if you neglect them they may well last to the end of the warranty period. But they aren't going to last ten years at 20k miles a year. It's all very well to say, they warranty the thing, I'm going to sell it on anyway, its sickness will be someone else's problem.
But has it not occurred to you that this is on some level an immoral and distasteful attitude?
I don't mean to be offensive. I say this as it were for the sake of argument. But I think it too.
And by the way: suppose your circumstances suddenly change and you have to keep it? Then you'll be sorry.
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Car Mechanics several years ago (1999?) had a story by a independent consulting engineer who acted as an expert witness in court cases. He was engaged by a garage who were being sued by a lady whose new Vauxhall 4x4 had blown up its engine after 2 years and 27,000 miles. He inspected the engine and wrote that it appeared to have never had an oil and filter change and the oil had degraded, the filter was blocked and all the bearings had gone until the engine seized. Lack of maintenance he concluded. Replacement cost £4.5k. (servicing costs saved £500 odd).
The lady involved sued, refused to listen to reason and in court was asked by the defence when she had the car serviced. "Never" was the reply. "I assumed you did that when I took it in to replace the headlamp bulb" (or something equally trivial).
Needless to say she lost her case.
With modern extended service intervals and better oils this may be greater than 27,000 miles now. But I drove an Audi A3 quattro TDI 130bhp which was for sale in December 2005. It had done 59k miles. The last service was at 23k miles. The cambelt should be changed at around 40k miles (it had not been). The engine was very noisy:-). Needless to say I did not buy it and it appears to be still unsold some 5 months later. (which perhaps proves potential buyers are not so stupid).
madf
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>> There's a category of people who think 3 years and 60,000 >> warranty means no servicing for 3 years >> and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
When the manufacturer's maintenance schedule will say otherwise. As they say, ignorance is no defence.
Would you abuse your own body the same way?
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"Would you abuse your own body the same way?"
Look at smokers for a start...
madf
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Look at smokers for a start... madf
I will stay away from that can of worms!
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>> I am with NoFM2R and Dalglish - dealer servicing isn't for >> me. >>
.... I don't disagree about dealer servicing, ....
>>... Three years is much too long to leave a car ...
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i will just copy & paste from the other thread:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=40999&...e
....
first any sensible motorist will check their tyres, fluids, pressures, on a regular basis. and will repair and replace as necessary long before they reach a critical level.
there is no magic about 1 year, or 2 years, or 10,000 miles, or 6,000 miles, or 15,000 kilometres, or whatever figure people wish to pluck from the ether to set their servicing schedules by.
if you were on a planet where the year was 1200 days, you can bet that the scheduled interval for brake fluid change would not have said every two-third year = 800 days = nearly two earth years.
routine servicing intervals are arbitrarily decided by manufacturers based on keen-commercial and conservative-engineering judgement, with a huge safety margin built in while keeping a beady eye on profit and protecting their brand. if you forced manufacturers to sell cars with a free lifetime servicing package, you can bet your bottom dollar that the servicing needs would suddenly become less critical.
as for safety items, the mot is there to test all safety critical components. .....
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first any sensible motorist will check their tyres, fluids, pressures, on a regular basis. and will repair and replace as necessary long before they reach a critical level. there is no magic about 1 year, or 2 years, or 10,000 miles, or 6,000 miles, or 15,000 kilometres, or whatever figure people wish to pluck from the ether to set their servicing schedules by.
As I stated in an earlier post, there are many people who don't ever check anything on a car. The service is the only time (outside of MOTs) when anything gets checked at all.
As you say, there is no magic about the the length of service intervals. As anyone will know who has driven a car for 30 to 40 years, the length of service intervals, in miles or months/years, has increased considerably in recent years. Many cars had 3000 to 6000 intervals in the 60s and 70s. Even in the 80s, 6000 mile intervals were commonplace. The increase is due to the advances in the technology of the car and lubricants (alhtough many in this forum still recommend oil changes at 6000 miles).
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Many years ago I bought an Austin Montego directly from my Brother in Law's company after he advised me that a colleague's company car was coming up for sale at a very good price.
He assured me that the driver had "always kept it looking immaculate"
I inspected the car - the company woudn't let me drive it due to insurance ets - all "looked" okay and of course there was the all important SERVICE HISTORY in the glove box.
I paid (trade price) and took the car away............first time I braked my foot nearly hit the floor, car mad noises every time it cornered. I got the car home and and ended up
fitting new front brakes, new rear brakes, new rear wheel cylinders, new front wheel bearings, all new plugs, filters,oil change etc
I mentioned this to BiL (he's not a car man!) and he said
" Well the guy did have a "scam" going wherby he used to book in the (company) Monetgo for a service and get the bill invoiced to the firm & book stamped etc but the garage actually used to service his wife's Metro instead"
The car had never actually been serviced at all !!
BiL didn't seem to think this was a problem and didn't think it worth mentioning before I bought the thing !!!!!
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Some BiL. Still on friendly terms?
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Reading some of these posts reassures me that buying new is the sensible thing to do. At least it won't have been wrecked by lack of service.
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I recently bought new for the first time simply because it needs to survive 35k a year and I can't afford it to be off the road for minor repairs in a bangeromics style.
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I recently bought new for the first time simply because it needs to survive 35k a year and I can't afford it to be off the road for minor repairs in a bangeromics style.
Buying new wont make sure that does not happen, and try getting a loan car at short notice when yours has gone bang....
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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True, there is no guarantee. I'm also trying to make sure that it won't happen by going with Honda. It's no guarantee, but the statistics are with me that eveen if something needs doing, then it will be minor enough to be planned for and not a catastrophic event like I'm used to. And for routine stuff, the dealer network are happy to supply a courtesy car FOC to keep me mobile. Clinched the deal for me.
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"buying new is the sensible thing to do"
Nah - nearly new is the way to go. Massive drop in value from new, but bought just before the first service is due - can't go wrong!
:)
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but check the brokers wont do new for the same cost. Heard Quentin Wilson on the radio a while ago, he said buy from brokers or pre-reg from supermarkets and sell on private at 6-9 months.?
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I'd agree, sort of, but the lowest monthly payment I could get was buying completely new thru a broker on PCP. Nearly new wasn't so good on a month by month basis, which for the moment is more important.
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So which cars can best-stand not being serviced properly???
I'm thinking maybe an older model diesel can stand long oil changes, and maybe a vvti petrol can't??
Any ideas
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I think an old model NA diesel made with new machinery and modern day tolerances could.
Also, any single cylinder Honda engine!
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No, No, No. Buying nearly new does not solve the problem buying a quality car that's cheap.
The fact that cars lose so much value in their first 6 months is that all the 'Lemons', that is cars with faults get sold on in the second hand market. Therefore the prices reflect the risk of something going wrong in nearly new cars.
Likewise cars with no service history could just as well be considered bargins, by the right people. By the right people I mean people who are knowedgable about the machanics of cars.
The debate all circles about the type of cars being sold on the second hand market and characteristics of people who buy second hand cars. Homo or hetrogenouse, for the buyers of cars in the risk adversity / information? Do the sellers of cars know if the car their selling is a 'lemon', or not?
If we could get someone that is knowledgeable about the second hand car market and economics that may answer the questions on wether nearly new cars are 'value for money', and wether cars with no service history are 'value for money'.
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Not all cars being sold on with a year are lemons, though. The national hire fleets dsipose of cars within 12 months, for example, as do the manufacturer's own internal fleets. OK, hire cars perhaps will have been thrashed a bit, but not the entire time. Leasing cos. also get cars returned to them which are sold on.
A one year-old car with 15-20k on it could make an excellent long-yerm ownership proposition, IMHO.
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>>>A one year-old car with 15-20k on it could make an excellent long-yerm ownership proposition, IMHO
I was looking for a Golf TDI SE. Several 55reg cars on VW's website with 10000 miles were priced at £14995. On drivethedeal.com a new one is £14910 inc. metalic paint and taxed for a year.
Which would you buy?
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Indeed, but all that's telling you is that the older ones were over-priced. The market will have caught up in the end.
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Indeed, but all that's telling you is that the older ones were over-priced. The market will have caught up in the end.
Yes, but this situation appears to have been the case for a fairly long time.
If you don't have a trade-in, buying new seems to be the best bet almost every time.
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"A one year-old car with 15-20k on it could make an excellent long-yerm ownership proposition, IMHO."
That's exactly the kind of car I was talking about.
Preferably 12-18 months old, ex-fleet, ideally registered to the manufacturer etc. You don't find many privately owned cars for sale at that age, the ones that are could well be rejected lemons.
I'd avoid them like the plauge.
If I could have found a brand new car with the _same_ spec as the ones I buy at 18mths old with around 15k miles for half RRP of new, then trust me, I would. :)
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I bought a 12 month old 307 that had been registered to Peugeot and had been driven by a member of their staff - and it was definitely a lemon! No guarantees of a good car that way...
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"I'd avoid them like the plauge"
Nice word, that. Must use it one day ... :o)
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Well, my last car but one (Mitsubishi Galant 1989 vintage)was bought by me with 45000 on the clock, 4 years old.
I ran it for 7 years/100,000 miles.
Changes the oil once. New exhaust and one set of spark plugs.
That was it.
I knew I was taking a risk running it in this way, but my thinking was that it was a fairly cheap car (4k), it had a good reputation for reliability, and I may well get away with it.
As it happened i did. If I had spent say £300 a year on services, that would have cost me £2,100.
If the car had exploded after a couple of years, i would have had only myself to blame, but it didn't, and I ended up with very cheap motoring indeed. I think it is ofter a false economy to buy a cheap car and then spend a bomb on servicing.
Not a trick I would try with a new car though, if only because It would invalidate my warranty.
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So if you didn't have it serviced, how were you able to ensure that your car was roadworthy? When were the brakes checked for example?
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Just bumped into a guy at the car wash driving a reasonable condition J reg VW Golf GTD (Mk2). He has owned it from new and it has done over 200,000 miles and sounded very smooth even for a petrol.
Servicing? Oil change and other checks every 5,000 miles.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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