Should it be possible (with servo assistance) to push the brake pedal right down to the floor with a bit of effort? Was bored while sitting at traffic lights and gave the pedal a good shove, and distinctly felt it hit the stop.
Brakes feel as sharp as they ever did. Car is a Citroen Xsara. Can't remember ever changing the brake fluid as have had no problems with the brakes.
Have never put on the brakes as hard as I can before, so don't know if this is normal for the car. :)
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Just a thought - if there are flexible hoses in the system they might be swelling under pressure and giving increased pedal travel. I don't think the brake pedal should ever reach the floor.
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Should it be possible (with servo assistance) to push the brake pedal right down to the floor with a bit of effort?<<
No, this should not be possible - not even with gritting your teeth and pushing as hard as you can, the seat back should fail before the pedal hits the floor !
It's not just the brake fluid, but flexible hoses, seals etc.
I would check your brake fluid levels before driving again - perhaps you've dislodged something ?
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Good news. It's not actually hitting the floor. There is a sort of click in the pedal under really hard pressure, and I thought it was hitting the floor. Under grunting seat-bending pressure it stops about 3/4 inch short.
My tame mechanic has taken a look and is of the conclusion that there may - possibly - be an absolutely tiny leak in a master cylinder seal, but since the pedal can't be made to sink with the engine off and substantial pressure, it's nothing to worry about.
Also inspected my warranty book and the master cylinder is covered, he said that if I wanted to change it, they would go ahead, but he would leave it and just keep an eye on things - which I agree with!
Cheers for the advice,
David.
PS - brake fluid levels are completely normal.
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This is perfectly normal behaviour on some braking systems.
I could do this on the Laguna and on My VW touran.
The goona would sink slowly all the way to floor with gentle sustained pressure. Read gently - do it hard and it wouldnt do it.
I got Renault to test the brakes and a mechanic came out with me
we did an emergency stop and its head through the screen time so they work ok.
The Tourvan will sink to within an inch or two of the floor with gentle pressure and then stop. Again hard sudden pressure locks it up.
Both with the engine on of course. Both fitted with ABS. The Goona with EBA (and the van i think! that or it has EBFD)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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...possibly - be an absolutely tiny leak in a master cylinder seal,
but it can only get worse (not better)!
Remember fluid levels are only a measure of external loss, not of leakage back past the mc seals.
If you have a warranty, and you are going to keep the car beyond the warranty it must make sense to change it, providing it is a reasonable excess. If it continues to happen after it has been changed, you at least know it is probably a "characteristic" or you can start looking for other faults.
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pmh (was peter)
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pushing your foot to the floor in a minute of boredom is not to be recommended as the next time something may well go bang just as the lights change to red
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I'd rather it went bang at the traffic lights than in an emergency stop on the motorway.
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I'd rather it went bang at the traffic lights than in an emergency stop on the motorway.
Agree with David. Trying to find a creak in the driver's seat I split a rusty brake pipe on Mrs H's Singer Chamois many years ago. Mug-full of brake fluid on the drive, relief that it happened to me rather than her and new non-rusting pipes all round. Never found the cause of the creak though.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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pushing your foot to the floor in a minute of boredom is not to be recommended as the next time something may well go bang just as the lights change to red
With true and prolonged brute force it's also possible to force fluid round the brake slave cylinder seals. Or at least it was on a 1980 Mini City.
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Hi Peter,
If I'd noticed this a week ago I'd have had it changed, but am driving back up to Leeds on Saturday and would prefer to have it done at my local independent, rather than trying to find someone up there.
There's also the possibility of the garage taking the whole thing apart and not finding anything wrong with it, at which point I'm out 200 quid that the warranty company won't cover... though I suppose if asked nicely the garage might tell the company that it was knackered.
Will think it over and get it done this summer when I'm home again if necessary. Warranty runs until November anyway.
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pushing your foot to the floor in a minute of boredom is not to be recommended as the next time something may well go bang just as the lights change to red
With true and prolonged brute force it's also possible to force fluid round the brake slave cylinder seals. Or at least it was on a 1980 Mini City.
Looks like it's the same on a Xsara too.
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Doubt it. No fluid loss.
I know it's totally irrelevant to this thread, but on the subject of brake fluid loss I'd like to share an experience I had on a low-mileage 306Xsi.
I was having to top up the brake fluid reservoir at the rate of about 0.3 litres per week. My Peugeot dealer looked at it (under warranty) and said it was OK because there was no external evidence of a leak ~ which I knew anyway ~ and that I should monitor the situation. They said the drop in fluid level must be due to brake pad wear. I got my calculator out and estimated the amount of brake pad wear that was necessary to account for 0.3 litres ~ it was greater than the total thickness (when new) of all the brake pads! I know a bit about the design of brake master cylinders and servos and I came to the conclusion that the fluid must have been leaking past the master cylinder seal and into the servo. It was the only possible thing that could have accounted for the symptoms. After a few days I went back to my dealer and told them my opinion. They topped up the reservoir and requested that I brought the car back to them a week later, with the instructions that I was not under any circumstances to top up the reservoir myself! I drove around on tenterhooks for a week (with a bottle of brake fluid in the boot just in case!) and of course the leak continued. Luckily I survived the week without the reservoir becoming completely empty. At the third visit I insisted that they remove the servo and look inside it. When I picked the car up later they sheepishly admitted that I had been right and that brake fluid was sloshing around inside the servo. Surprise, surprise!! They said that they had fitted a new master cylinder and servo. Boy, was I pleased to hear that!
So be warned. Just because you can't see a pool of brake fluid on the garage floor it doesn't necessarily mean that you haven't got a leak!
--
L\'escargot.
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I certainly wouldn't be happy if my brake pedal went to the floor under any circumstances.
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Under grunting seat-bending pressure
I wouldn't recommend doing that. That's the way to break or permanently bend something ~ seat frame, brake pedal, master cylinder pushrod, etc etc. Car components don't have an unlimited strength.
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L\'escargot.
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