Drink-driver, 14, flies into rage after sentencing
A 14-year-old drink-driver punched a prosecutor and threw a jug of water at magistrates as she was jailed.
Leanne Black, of Thatcham, Berkshire, flew into a rage at Newbury Youth Court after being told she faced four months behind bars for driving offences.
Before the drama, the court took the unusual step of saying Leanne could be named due to public interest.
When she was 12, she is thought to have become Britain's youngest drink-driver, and was disqualified for two years.
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That makes me sick.
Some scumbag of a kid drinks and drives and gets 4 months?
If I down my bottle of Southern Comfort (and lived) and then drove to my mates and got caught, I'd get banned, (possibly prison) fined etc etc and this pathetic excuse for a human being has done it twice already?
Not to mention the assault. I don't know why I'm surprised anymore to be honest though.
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I rather think that she has problems and issues of a magnitude not likely to be helped by jail.
I also think that at 14 it is probably not her fault that this is a "pathetic excuse for a human being" and you might want to be a little more thankful to "the grace of God".
I am sure her parents/homelife/environment would make an interesting study.
Out of interest, what do you think prison is for ?
Rehabilitation ?
Punishment ?
Revenge/Retribution ?
Removal ?
And, bearing in mind your choice, how then does prison help the child ?
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Hold on Mark.
I can't for one minute claim to be in the right in calling her scum. And I'm sure that she has home issues that haven't helped but sometimes, I think that excuse is rolled out a bit too often. I know someone who's got fantastic parents. His two brothers and sister have grown up to be very nice people but he's a loose cannon. He's a loony and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get locked up sometime. It's not always the parents.
All I know is, if she'd have mown someone down the second time there'd be uproar.
I'm probably wrong but I'm young, opinionated and I know that I instantly don't like this girl.
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>>Rehabilitation ?
Punishment ?
Revenge/Retribution ?
Removal ?
And, bearing in mind your choice, how then does prison help the child ?<<
Removal...possibly punishment. Certainly not rehabilitation.
But in the kid's instance, it gets her off the road and might possibly make her think again.
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>>Certainly not rehabilitation.
>>might possibly make her think again.
??
More generally, its a 14 year old kid. Very rarely are children born evil - perhaps never, not certainly not often. As a 14 year old child she needs help, not prison - although that help may have to come from some kind of a detention centre.
Now, prison for the parents ? That might well be a more fruitful discussion.
From time to time I also live in San Mateo County in California. Should your child be an offendor there, they will take away the parent's driving licence. And in the States that makes life pretty damned tough.
It works in SM County. I'd like to see it tried here - albeit that a licence is not as important day to day here as it is in the US.
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I've seen enough parents at their wits end thanks to outside influences, drugs and drink only being a couple.
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"outside influences, drugs and drink only being a couple."
Theres others? Prey do tell - what I have missed out on.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Oh must you be right ALL the time? ;-)
By make her think again, I mean she might not do the exact same crime again. I'm sure she'd still be a criminal and commit other crimes but not that exact one.
Let me ask you a question. If this girl was a boy and he was a rapist, would you be so quick to say "But prison isn't the answer"?
I do agree though - perhaps detention and some form of help. But certainly something more than a driving ban for her which won't mean anything.
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>>If this girl was a boy and he was a rapist, would you be so quick to say "But prison isn't the answer"?
No. But then I might be talking about removal as the first priority and rehabilitation as the second. I'm pretty sure that throwing them in a cell and chucking the key away wouldn't be the answer, even then.
Now if it was an adult, then shoot the rapist and lock up the drink driving girlie forever. But we're talking of a child.
And whilst I take PU's point, I rather think that in this case the parents are some considerable distance from blameless.
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After what's been said about the parents, I'll concede that yes - the parents probably aren't blameless. I also agree that something needs to be done rehabilitiation wise but somtimes when people say "Prison isn't the answer" it annoys me. People get off with far too many things nowadays. Bring back the chair I say.
I also seem to be losing this argument in a rather ugly way so I'm going to do what I do best and withdraw hastily.
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"Now if it was an adult, then shoot the rapist and lock up the drink driving girlie forever. But we're talking of a child."
What about an adult with the mental age of a 14 year old - And yet you say capital punishement for rape (based on age and offence one assumes). Shoot first, ask questions later ;-) ?
At 14, she knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong; what's childish about that?
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"Very rarely are children born evil - perhaps never, not certainly not often."
Think you may wish to enlighten yourself and spend a day in a youth court....
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"Think you may wish to enlighten yourself and spend a day in a youth court..."
Are they full of evil new born babies?
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>>Think you may wish to enlighten yourself and spend a day in a youth court....
I think BBD said it pretty concisely.
Further, I studied law and part of those studies were to spend an awful lot of time in court; it was usually pretty sad, especially where children were involved - either as victims or perpetrators.
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Alright alright! I get the idea! I retract my comments!
I'm almost in tears here!
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Adam, I do hope you are joking ;-)
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Doesn?t sound like she?s had much joy in her life. Shame really.
My 14-year old niece rides horses and spends half terms in science camp.
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I feel she would laugh at your "sympathy" BBD. She undoubtedly gets kicks out of doing what she does, and laughs in the face of those who represent the law (and assaults them as well it would seem).
They flout the law as they believe they will get away with it - a view that is underpinned by the support for her and those like her, in this thread.
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I?m normally the first person crying for these people to be napalmed but it doesn?t take a professor in child psychology to see that this girl is disturbed. Normal 14-year old girls are drooling over Robbie and aspiring to be Brittney.
She needs to be removed from her moronic family and placed where she has some chance of flourishing. (Speaking in my wisdom as a designer).
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Let me tell you - Dave is full of wisdom. I'd listen to him.
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In my rare moments of sobriety, and when I?m not getting hookers pregnant, I can be very, very wise indeed.
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Very very wise.
This bloke gets through 2 books a weekend.
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Loaded and FHM?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Equally concisely and not being over-literal in interpretation....
"At 14, she knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong".
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Leanne's mother, Nora, was among those shouting in the courtroom. Earlier, as she arrived at court, Mrs Black stuck out her buttocks and said to camera crews: "Film this if you like."
Quote Mark: "I am sure her parents/homelife/environment would make an interesting study."
Hmmm Less of a study more of a Horror story?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Where were the parents when all this was going on, the drinkig, the driving, the court appearance etc? Whose car was it? So many questions that we don't get the answers to in the sensationalist media coverage. Reading between the lines in other reports one can see a total lack of parenting, either lack of it or lack of skills. EG "The body of 14 year old Joanna was found in a ditch by a policeman. Friends said that she had decided to walk home from a pub on her own after a night out and she had left at about 1am." I have seen reports like this and one has to ask:- 14 year old, in a pub, walking home at 1am. The mind boggles!
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It was her Dad's car and they called the Police when she stole it.
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And further details of this charming individual
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/4850164.stm
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and even more details
www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=7&n...2
I wonder what the FULL picture is.
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Note that the Defence Solicitor din't incurr her wrath.
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Immediate euthanasia, and then use the cadaver as heating fuel for hard up pensioners.
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Immediate euthanasia, and then use the cadaver as heating fuel for hard up pensioners.
-I agree, but they should do the parents as well.
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Well now she has made the National press a couple of times perhaps we should nominate her for Celebrity Big Brother.
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Couple of points-
How does the 3 year ban work? This young lady is 14 so does ban come into effect when she's 17? Or does it start now? If it's now the she is free to drive at the legal age.
At 14 I did not have a clue how to make a car move so who showed her what to do?
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Sorry Adam but I agree with 2FMR's points in your discussion together.
A little more compassion is needed here.
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Numerous 17 year olds charged with more heinous offences "cannot be named for legal reasons". What possesed the magistrate to make an exception to the usual rules for this rather sad case?
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So what is the solution guys? Plenty disagreeing with Adam but what do you mean by "Sorry Adam but I agree with 2FMR's points in your discussion together" and "As a 14 year old child she needs help, not prison - although that help may have to come from some kind of a detention centre." And what specific offence have the parents committed to get " prison for the parents? That might well be a more fruitful discussion."
Not trying to provoke an argument - but what is the solution to persistent offenders like this - and the appalling parents?
(I gather in China that you need a licence/permission to have kids!!!)
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Phil
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I agree with Phil....
...who has actually just become my new best friend.
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>>but what do you mean by "Sorry Adam but I agree with 2FMR's points in your discussion together>>
Well that means exactly what it says. (I normally agree with Adams wisdom but not in this case)
Not rocket science.
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">>but what do you mean by "Sorry Adam but I agree with 2FMR's points in your discussion together>>
Well that means exactly what it says. (I normally agree with Adams wisdom but not in this case)
Not rocket science."
Your condescending reply is much appreciated Imagos. My "not rocket science" point was really to try to get you to suggest an alternative form of
"Rehabilitation ?
Punishment ?
Revenge/Retribution ?
Removal ?"
which might help to solve the very serious problem that this young lady has.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to put forward some suggestions.
Please don't make them to complicated.
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Phil
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Your condescending reply is much appreciated Imagos. My "not rocket science" point was really to try to get you to suggest an alternative form of "Rehabilitation ?
I think she needs a guiding hand at impending Adulthood. Someone to rehabilitate her too and some time away from her parents and in particular her peers.
So the secure center may do her some good, even with her temper tantrum in court she may realise after a while this 'could' be what she needs. You never know she may enjoy it and learn a great deal.
Believe it or not i wish her well.
I guess Phill you do not have a teenage daughter?
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"I guess Phil you do not have a teenage daughter"
No I don't - she's 26.
"Someone to rehabilitate her too and some time away from her parents and in particular her peers.
So the secure center may do her some good, even with her temper tantrum in court she may realise after a while this 'could' be what she needs. You never know she may enjoy it and learn a great deal."
Haven't they tried this already? And isn't this what they are now doing?
"Believe it or not i wish her well."
So do I - let's hope she learns from this and becomes a well balanced adult.
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Phil
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Well, I do notice that in one of the reports it does say that
"an eight-month detention and training order was also imposed.
Leanne was told she would be spending half of the term in secure accommodation,"
and
"This offence (this year's drink driving) took place while you were just three months into a supervision order. You wilfully and persistently broke court orders."
"Leanne was convicted of other offences, of an anti-social nature, last summer"
and
"On how her on-going community-based punishment was going, she said: "I'm working in groups and stuff and trying to make my own decisions and that, difficult to explain really."
so it does sound as if several other "measures" have been tried and she has been given a lot of help in various ways until the court has finally lost patience.
I just wonder what other measures are possible apart from the "jail" sentence - by the way, the magistrates don't seem to mention "jail" in the reports, is "secure accommodation" the same as "jail"???
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Phil
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I'm almost lost for words, and just grateful that mine didn't have the same sort of problem. I incline to sympathy - kids are supposed to be immature, but they need support, guidance, and some clear limits at times to keep them out of trouble.
That said, she's done it - twice - and there have to be unpleasant consequences along with the sympathy and support, not least to encourage the others.
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I'll make a bit more of a sensitive post now that I've calmed down a bit.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting we throw kids in jail for making mistakes. God knows I've made a few in my time (and still do) but there's a limit.
At what point do you stop trying to rehabilitate someone? If I went and shot me old pal BBD dead (sorry Dave), then lets say I get rehabilitated. I'm "reformed" and then I toddle along and whack RF. Should I be rehabilitated again? Thrown in jail? Can I still blame it on my parents? I'm 20 and still live at home so have known nothing but their influence.
As Manatee says, there needs to be a point at which I need to be locked away. Ok - this girl never hurt anyone (despite having the potential to do so) but, and it's a big but I know, but what happens if they punished her in the same way as previous occasions and then she went out and did it again but this time, mowed someone down.
I was probably a little hasty before in calling her the scum of the Earth as I know nastier people but sometimes, I think we're a little to ready to just write it off as being "well they're only young" behaviour.
Would it be any different if the circumstances were identical but she was my age?
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"I know nastier people"
not sure I want to be your "new best friend" any more!!
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Phil
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At 15 years of age I used to go to pubs. We (me and two mates) had the use of a motorbike and sidecar.
Not one of us had a license or insurance. The person who had drunk less Watney red barrel (at least three pints) drove back, to where we hid the bike in a shed. We did this every weekend for two years. I knew it was wrong but hey to a 15 year old you think its just being slightly naughty - Consequences? to a 15 year old? whats that. I was more worried about being caught by my old man.
So my crime spree is not tooo far removed from hers, except I never got caught.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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But would you have behaved like that in court?
(Be careful how you answer - I don't want any illusions shattered)
And Phil - don't worry - I know nastier people - I don't associate with them though!
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It's all sad. And, as has been pointed out, much of it comes back to her home background.
But surely I am not the only person here who is wondering about her mother's home background.
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I think this subject has run it's course.
Most people have had their say and voiced an opinion - most of which is more related to parenting and discipline rather than motoring itself.
Also, the people concerned have already had their 15 minutes of fame elsewhere in the tabloids, etc...
so, Thread Locked.
DD.
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