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But not everyone has access to the police intarnet, do they. Its all very well the enforcers knowing what the rules are, but there is no point if the enforced dont!
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But not everyone has access to the police intarnet, do they. Its all very well the enforcers knowing what the rules are, but there is no point if the enforced dont!
If everyone knew all the rules, the police would never catch anyone. Come on; be fair.
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City of London Police Orders (published on the intranet,every Tuesday)have lighting up times amongst all the promotions, postings and other blah.
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But my understanding is that lighting up time is sunset.
Is this what they publish?
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>>But my understanding is that lighting up time is sunset.>>
Your understanding is completely wrong...:-)
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When I were a lad, doing 't cyling proficiency test (wonder if that still exists) with PC Partridge (wonder if he's still alive) we were told that lighting up time was half an hour after sunset.
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www.nmm.ac.uk/site/request/setTemplate:singleconte...5
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L\'escargot.
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Lighting up time has become less important (and potentially confusing)since the arrival in the late seventies of the requirement to run dipped lights in an reduced visibility.
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it seems pretty clear that lighting up time is a matter of common sense. We all should be clear when you do and do not need your lights on. As a matter of interest. I think i am correct in saying that it is not an offence to drive with 'sidelights' only at night as long as the area you are driving through is lit by street lamps. Can anyone confirm this?
let me be the last to let you down....
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Can anyone confirm this?>>
IIRC providing street lights are not more than 185 yards apart, but even then it would be somewhat risky.
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>>we were told that lighting up time was half an hour after sunset>>
Oh dear, oh dear...:-)
Half-an-hour BEFORE sunset.
Otherwise it would be completely dark...:-)
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Define sunset.
There are rain forests of discussion amongst ancient rabbis about when sunset actually occurs. Is it when the base of the sun hits the horizon, when it just disappears, at the halfway point, or when it goes so dark that without street lighting you can see three medium sized stars!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Define sunset. There are rain forests of discussion ....
L'escargot's link to the Nat Maritime Museum gives the scientists answers.
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I think it stays light for some time after the sun sets and so lighting up time being half an hour after sunset makes perfect sense. By the way, a useful screensaver which tells you when the sun sets can be downloaded from
www.mapmaker.com/sunclock.htm
BIG
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Don't know why manufacturers don't take some responsibility here and have lights built in to the bikes. In these days of modern technology it can't be hard to produce something, possibly LED based, that fits in the seat piller and front handelbar mounts or wherever, is bright, is charged by the pedalling (like the old generators on the tyre) and ideally comes on automatically at dusk. Even if it's only on kids bikes. Kids like gadgets, it would sell well if marketed right.
Extra cost per new bike a few quid, few years down the line, lives /accidents per year saved = worth it.
Add in making those employing cyclists (newspaper shops, the Post Office) share some kind of responsibility for the fitness of vehicle and some progress might be made.
Probably make as much impact on the accident stats in towns as many other initiatives anyway.
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These are the lighting up times for the Workington area:
www.timesandstar.co.uk/localinfo/update_lighting.a...p
which are near enough to my part of the coast to be acceptable as applicable.
On Tuesday afternoon I went to our Tesco Extra by car and used headlights in both directions (it was cloudy and there was a slight drizzle); I bought cigarettes from the kiosk close to the main entrance before going back home.
My receipt is stamped at 15:25. Lighting up time is approximtely 13-15 minutes later (slightly earlier as we are south of Workington)...:-)
This morning I again went to Tesco (running short of milk despite home delivery yesterday morning) during the period that youngsters are on their way to local schools.
Same situation. Cloudy with odd burst of rain and headlights required both ways because of lighting conditions.
Sunrise approximately 8:02am. Time on receipt 8:51am.
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>>we were told that lighting up time was half an hour after sunset>> Oh dear, oh dear...:-) Half-an-hour BEFORE sunset. Otherwise it would be completely dark...:-) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Well, according to the NMM site linked above: Headlamps are required on vehicles during the hours of darkness which are defined by these regulations as being the interval between one half-hour after sunset to one half-hour before sunrise.
Which is what I, too, always believed to be true.
V
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>>Which is what I, too, always believed to be true. >>
It may very well apply in summer but certainly not in winter.
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>>Which is what I, too, always believed to be true. >> It may very well apply in summer but certainly not in winter.
"Certainly" not? On a clear winter's evening, twilight will actually last longer than during summer. This is because the sun is sliding below the horizon at a shallower angle.
BTW, I'm not suggesting that is the right time to switch on your lights. The question related to lighting-up time, which IS defined as half an hour after sunset to half an hour before sunrise, whether you want it to be or not.
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>>On a clear winter's evening, twilight will actually last longer than during summer. This is because the sun is sliding below the horizon at a shallower angle.>>
Well it certainly doesn't when I take the dog for a walk...:-)
In fact at this time of the year it goes dark remarkably quickly and I have to get off the golf course quite sharpish once the light starts to fade.
However, I've stayed in Wick in the north of Scotland in mid-summer and, whilst enjoying a barbecue on the shore, noticed just how light it can be even very late at night.
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When I were a lad, doing 't cyling proficiency test (wonder if that still exists) with PC Partridge
Cycling proficiency does still exist, normally conducted in Year 6 at our local primary schools. Tends not to be done by PC Partridge and his ilk but by trained civilian instructors.
My youngest went through his earlier this year and passed with flying colours, unusually for this day and age they do actually fail anyone who's not up to scratch! He found it very worthwhile and I appreciated the fact that someone independant was reinforcing the road safety messages I'd been teaching him all his life.
Following on from that he has brought home from school a road safety pack this weekend which includes a copy of the Highway Code. The pack was given to every Year 7 pupil as part of their PSE lesson and their homework is to read it, perhaps we are finally going in the right direction, certainly nothing similar was in place when my eldest went through the same school 7 years ago.
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>>But my understanding is that lighting up time is sunset.>> Your understanding is completely wrong...:-) - - - - - - - - - - -
Thank you for advancing the discussion.
But from a good source.
Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 1796
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_2.htm#(Ti)3interpretation
"Hours of darkness". The time between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise.
"Daytime hours". The time between half an hour before sunrise and half an hour after sunset.
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www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_4.htm
Requirements about the use of front and rear position lamps, rear registration plate lamps, side marker lamps and end-outline marker lamps
24.?(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (5) and (9), no person shall-
(a) use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle which is in motion-
(i) between sunset and sunrise, or
(ii) in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset; or
(b) allow to remain at rest, or cause or permit to be allowed to remain at rest, on a road any vehicle between sunset and sunrise
unless every front position lamp, rear position lamp, rear registration plate lamp, side marker lamp and end-outline marker lamp with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted is kept lit and unobscured.
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Requirements about the use of headlamps and front fog lamps
25.?(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-
(a) during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and
(b) in seriously reduced visibility.
I will accept this assuming it is the latest version of the regulations.
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Just a few points, the street lights locally come on at any time during the day (until 10am then from 2pm) if the light level drops for long enough, It became light a couple of days ago, but rain came in and it grew dark and the street lights all came back on. !!
Can anyone define Serious reduced visibility ?
The only other time I would use headlights if traveling away from the sun for a long period, but this is usually the summer, same with rear fogs if travelling towards the sun.
There are a lot of accidents involving the sun as it sets in the summer when visibility is inpaired due to the angle of the sun.
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