Interesting one this is........
I am buying a car through UK-car-discount.co.uk. I got an email today telling me:
"In order to ensure we have as much of the required documentation in your file for when your car is allocated a delivery date by the Manufacturer we would ask you to fax (0161-499-7099 ) or post us the following documents:
1 Copy of your driving licence (both parts if it is the new type).
2 A recent utility bill (Gas,Water,Electric etc.)
Please note these documents are required by the Manufacturer to confirm the delivery address and who the vehicle has been sold to.
Never heard of this requirement before, have you?
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Its the all pervasive 'Money Laundering', or Proceeds of Crime laws i'm afraid. IIRC they don't strictly need to identify you in this way (unless you are paying in used tenners), but they are probably covering themselves as the penalties for non compliance with these rules are quite severe (up to 5 years in prison, i think)
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strange thing is though that I am p/x'ing my car to 90% of the value of the new one. So, it's not as if I am whacking in a suit case load of reddies. I don't mind, I just thought it odd as I have never ever been asked to do this when I have purchased a new car before.
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My thought would be that the car you are PX'ing in could be from the proceed's of crime and you are PX'ing it as a way of adding layers to the laundering so they are still covering their back.
Better to check with everyone and randomly ask people depending o
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Certainly as BH says, with such a high value swap in, it'd be another 'clever' way, of moving £$£$ around, in atempt to conceal its source.
&, of course, there's always the'Computer says so' element - if you don't tell it what it wants to know, you ain't gettin a new motor!!
VB
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I've bought many thousands of pounds worth of goods online and never had anything like this apart from one occasion about three years ago.
It involved a company who bought up pre-used computer equipment and I ordered a 19in monitor on behalf of my son.
To my amazement, even though I was paying by credit card, I was asked to send copies of a utility bill, driving licence and bank statement before the monitor would be despatched.
Somewhat annoyed I telephoned and had what proved to be some very angry words with a dogmatic young lady who stated it was company policy.
I said that under no circumstances would I send a bank statement and that, frankly I saw no reason for concern as I was paying by plastic and shipping was to my home.
In the end she said the order would be cancelled unless I complied so, for the sake of my son, I sent a utility bill.
But even though it was a one-off and no future orders required a similar procedure, I've never used the company again.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Sounds ridiculous. They cannot tax the car without your insurance documentation for goodness sake - surely that should suffice?
Never heard of this before and personally I'd tell them to get stuffed.
As for "these documents are required by the Manufacturer to confirm the delivery address and who the vehicle has been sold to" - sound like twaddle. Why should the manufacturer care - your contract is either with the broker or the dealer - not the manufacturer.
If you are happy for them to see your documents prior to delivery then ok - but personally I wouldn't give anyone copies of stuff that could potentially lead to identity fraud.
Perhaps I'm overly paranoid....
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www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/regveh_howdoi.htm
Documents Required
In order to licence and register your vehicle using V55/4 or V55/5 you must provide, along with your application, either your DVLA photocard driving licence or one original document from each of the lists below. Copies are unacceptable.
Documentation confirming your name
* Current DVLA paper driving licence,
* UK/EU or foreign passport,
* Marriage certificate
* Decree nisi/absolute Birth Certificate
* Birth certificate.
Documentation confirming your address
* Utility Bill valid within the last 3 months ?gas, electricity, water, landline telephone,
* Bank/Building Society statement,
* Medical Card,
* Council tax bill for current year.
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ie: the MLRO (Money Laundering Reporting Officer) of the DVLA doesn't want to go to jail either!
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Thanks for this - looks as though it was I who was talking twaddle - not the broker! I see this was introduced in January 2004 - so fairly recently. It does suggest that the dealer only need see the documentation:
"To alleviate the need for traders to present customer?s documentation at a DVLA Local Office, motor traders who hold a current trade plate licence, are able to carry out these checks on DVLA?s behalf. This will reduce inconvenience to both trade and their customers. It will also enable customers to have their documentation handed back to them immediately"
Although I guess this isn't possible if dealing with a dealer that's not local to you.
Actaully I wonder what you are supposed to do if you don't have any of the required details? If you use an internet-only bank or pay utility bills on line you generally don't get paper copies. What are you supposed to do then?
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Bought a nearly new car last week at a local showroom and had to provide my driving licence,not for money laundering but another way of cross referencing for tax and insurance or so I was told.
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Actaully I wonder what you are supposed to do if you don't have any of the required details?
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in the dvla'a case it is actually easier than with some other institutions. as the dvla link above says, you need either provide a photocard driving licence, or in the event that you do not have a photocard licence, two documents from their list.
( the real nightmare bureacracy faced by the mother of a friend when she was widowed was unbelievable. she had no bank account, no bills, no passport, no driving licence, - everything was in her husban's name. six months after the event, the problems continue. )
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These regulations about money laundering have been implemented in a way that was never intended by the original Act. Because of the potential risk to a company of breaking these regulations, they are now being used for virtually all financial transactions.
Having just had a Chip and Pin credit card cloned and the issuing card company having taken over a £2,000 hit with ATM cash withdrawls, I am very wary about passing any information on to anyone. With identity theft on the increase, the information being requested can help to assist this. It raises the question of do you know how this information is going to be used, how it is going to be stored, and who is going to have access to it?
In this particular case all of the information is being requested remotely and no direct physical contact is possible. Were you made aware of these requirements before of after entering into the contract? Before I would supply any of this information I would be inclined to obtain answers to the questions about the use of the information. It must be acceptable to ask questions as to what happens to your personal information. If the reply is not satisfactory then I would be inclined to cancel the order and go elsewhere.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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I agree with Roger.
At work and home we are told not to provide such details as they cam be used to defraud us or set up a fake/cloned identity.
I'd be rather worried by these requirements.
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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in a trade in situation surely the v5 of the trade in with the same address as is going on the new car would be good enough as insurance has details as well.I have nothing to hide but dont give personal details without good reason ,too many people with nothing better to do than create jobs for themselves
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Thanks for all the replies. All very interesting. One cannot be a cynic all ones life. One would get no where would one?
There is a lot of personal data out there in the public domain (witness 192.com, b4ugo.co.uk, etc) If a dealer/broker misused the data then I expect it would be well advertised (i.e. here!) and the business would go belly-up. So, not in their interest. I expect that, in my case, the broker is doing good business because they are still IN business. Once I get my vehicle, I will let you know how it all went and whether I find out that there is another Tack somewhere in Zeal Monochorum using my bank account.
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It's not money laundering that requires the ID, although if you're buying with cash that may arise. ISTR it is down to the DVLA making sure the vehicle is registered to a real person who will get the fines for SORN, Gatso, ANPR etc.
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If they are trusting utility bills to prove anything then they are in fairy land. Any teenager with a computer, scanner, colour printer and a copy of photoshop could produce a very convincing utility bill very easily. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do photo ids as well. They would be harder but I am sure there are people out there doing them also.
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So what happens if I live in a suitcase, have a full driving license and insurance (at an old address I was evicted from) and said suitcase contains lots of used tenners which I want to spend on a motor caravan to live in!
I end up in the black market and the cash is untracked, and so am I! Another case of the law catching the law abiding and not the criminals!
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