No, 40 cycles not required.
Maybe he thought that there was an earthing problem and ran an extra cable to the block - sounds strange though?? I have the feeling that he might be out of his depth....
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, i thought this 40 cycles thing sounded made up and i think you are right Aprilia by saying he is out of his depth.
The wire does look odd, it doesn't seem to go anywhere really, just join to the same points as the existing earth strap..
I had him do an emmissions test after he had replaced the O2 sensor and it all passed well within limits, Lambda was 1.013 i think so i am happy the cat isn't being affected.(thanks for that tip in an earlier post Aprilia)
So how do i read the fault codes myself? is this the paper clip technique? I do trust this guy, but if he is not capable enough to sort the problem i will have to find a Honda dealer.But will they be any better?!
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I forgot to mention, when i first talked to him about replacing the sensor, he said he had spoken to the local motor factors and there were 3 sensors available for my car. I didn't have an opinion on which to use as i don't know which is best, but i have a feeling he may have used a "pattern" part as it was only(!) 150 quid. I have seen these type of sensors go for double that.
I wonder if the cars computer has refused to recognise the pattern part and that is why the light remains on?
Thanks again
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All EGO sensors are basically the same;but there are versions with anything from one to four connecting wires which are to do with earthing instead of relying on earthing thro'the exhaust and also for heating the EGO when you first start the engine to get a quicker response-it's then called a HEGO sensor.There are then versions with different lengths of connecting wire,types of connectors,gold-plated terminals etc. but the sensor part is the same.The only different one was used by Mitsubishi-I think-on their direct injection engine,which was a much more expensive device which did not just signal the module that the mixture was either rich or weak but would signal by how much.
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Thanks for the reply jc. Thats interesting information. The sensor that has been put on my car has 4 wires coming from it i think.
I didn't realise the wires were to do with earthing, the new wire the guy has added makes a little bit more sense now.
Thanks again
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The Honda sensors are different to others, even though they have 4 wires. As a result, 'universal' 4 wire types will not work. I know when I was looking for mine, no local factors could offer anything other than universal (Bosch) ones, and most didn't even have a listing. Honda ones (and the same from Rover) are about £240, but I got one in the end from Fuel parts (thanks Aprilia) for about £70.
Yes, you need the paper clip to get the codes.
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I was assuming the repairer had put the correct lambda probe in. Dave N is quite correct - a Bosch 'universal' one won't work. This is likely to be the problem.
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Thanks alot guys. i am sure this is the problem. I am going to see if i can find one on the web and ask my mechanic to swap it over. Not happy to have unnecessary wires trailing under the bonnet.
Exactly what sensor do i need? It is a 2000 x reg with the 2.0 engine - engine code f20b6 i think.
Thanks
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Your original sensor was a Denso, I think. You need a type 'LB1617' - ring Fuel Parts UK for price and availability (I use them - they are pretty good):
Fuel Parts UK Ltd
Buntsford Hill Business Park
Bromsgrove
B60 3DX
UK
Telephone: 01527 835555
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Thank you very much Aprilia. I will get in contact with them.
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I have been in contact with them and asked for the availability of part LB1617 and here is the reply he gave:
Reference : Lamda sensor LB1617
Part number LB1617 only replaces two Denso part numbers, to check whether
your car is one of these numbers you need to look at the number that is
stamped
around the probe just above the hex on the Lambda sensor.
This number will start 1924 001 *** I need to know those last three digits
before I
can quote you.
Please either Email or call me when you have this information.
Thank you
Lloyd Deakin
Fuel Parts UK Ltd
Buntsford Hill Business Park
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire
B60 3DX
-Obviously i have a problem now in that i don't have the original sensor so i can't provide the number! Is this definately the right part Aprilia? if it is i just want to buy the part and fit it myself. Not too difficult a job i assume?
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I would be unwilling to say 100% that it is correct - but I think it is. Is there any chance you can retrieve to old part from the garage?
Failing that, try to browse around an equivalent s/hand car at your local dealer and get the P/N off that.
It will be easy to fit.
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Thanks for replying. I will talk to the garage asap and try to get the number. But i am pretty sure they will no longer have the part.
Even if they do, they have already fitted a new sensor and they might not be too pleased if i go in asking them to fit a new one FOC...
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just an extra bit of information for you, if you remove the 7.5amp fuse(controls the radio circuit among others be sure to have the radio code first )for about thirty seconds the fault code will be erased from the ecu and the engine check light will go out providing there is no other fault present. hope this helps for future reference.
if it aint broke don`t fix it
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just had another thought, are you aware that there are in fact 2 oxygen sensors fitted to your accord,they have the designation of S1 & S2 ,was the correct one identified & changed ?
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if it aint broke don`t fix it
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Grease Monkey is correct - there is one before the cat (right at the front as you look into the engine compartment. And one after the cat. Its nearly always the first one that goes -it s a fairly common fault on Accords (relatively speaking of course). There is also a 'oxygen sensor system rely' behind the trim on the passenger side.
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The front one controls the fuelling;the second one is part of the engine management system and the signals from it should closely follow the signals from the front;this demonstrates that the catalyst and control systems are operating correctly.
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Upstream sensor informs the engine management system about fueling and the level of oxygen in the exhaust system. The engine should switch between rich and lean states to enable the CAT to operate properly. The rich and lean states are indicated by a fluctuating voltage of 0.1v to 0.9v at 1 cycle per second (approx).
Downstream sensor informs the engine management that the CAT is working properly by signaling at approx 0.6v. If the downstream flucuates similar to the upstream then the CAT is Kaput.
The original post mentioned 40 drive cycles. This is the minimum number of drive cycles required to clear a stored fault code and Freaze frame data stored in the Engine management computer as required by European On Board Diagnostics legislation that came into effect for every vehicle produce after 1st January 2001. It may be that the Indie garage didn't have the tool required to clear your fault code and he is relying on the ECU to clear it for him. This could suggest why he didn't charge you. Sounds like a decent chap to me.
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Original post states that the car was connected to a diagnostic computer - so he should have been able to reset the ECU. In any case, I think ECU on these Hondas can be reset by disconnecting battery for a few minutes.
Anyway, there are too many unknowns here to give firm answers, I do worry when technicians start adding extra wires etc. though.
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Thanks for all the replies. The light is still on, i am starting to ignore it now...
In a week i will take it back if it is still on (which i am sure it will be) and see what he can do with it. I will ask if a different sensor can be fitted - even if it is a original honda part. It is clear that although the current replacement works (all emmissions are fine) something is not right.
Thanks again
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Engine management light staying on is a MOT failure even if everthing else is working so it must be fixed at some point and before someone says to take out the bulb,it must come on and then go out to pass.
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I didn't know that! Interesting.
I suppose it makes sense as the light is generally linked to the emissions systems.
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Why not just pull the trouble code and see exactly what's making the light come on? Once pulled, the code will stay there for your man to check.
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Re:Engine management light staying on is a MOT failure
Im sorry JC but that is complete rubbish ! The EML light is not a testable item.There are so many myths about the mot test ,I`ve been mot testing for over 16 years now & thats the first time ive ever heard that one ! perhaps you can post a link to the page on the VOSA website where it tells you about what is & isnt tested in an mot test !! I would really like to read that one !
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if it aint broke don`t fix it
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Maybe he's confusing with ABS light - which IS testable. MIL light is not testable, but obviously the car must pass on emissions, so (in very general terms) MIL on = emissions failure...
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Dave N - I have no idea how to test the fault codes. All i know is it involves a paperclip? no idea where to stick it though...
I did try grease monkeys trick of taking out the fuse for the radio, and the light went off for a short time (enough for me to back the car out and drive 200 yards) then it came back on.
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Not confusing it with ABS but I was getting a little ahead.It's coming with St. III and IV emissions when those cars become testable.
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Well, i am still having problems with this.
The car has gone back in and the garage has effectively admitted defeat and got an auto electrician in. Light still won't go off, and the electrician says the car is still flashing the oxygen sensor fault code.He even mentioned that the ECU might be at fault as it is not "communicating" properly. This is exactly the sort of last resort, replacing random parts rubbish excuse that i didn't want to hear!
I have asked the garage where he got the replacement sensor he used, and he said fuel parts uk. So the chances are it is the right sensor.
I forgot to ask him however if he definately had the right sensor and if it might be the second O2 sensor after the cat, i will ask him today.
I am starting to lose patience with this now,and if the problem is still there at the end of today (they have had the car since friday morning) then i am fetching it and not taking it back.
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Hm.. Sounds like they don't really know what they're doing.
It is not that difficult to check that the oxygen sensors are working - just use a 'scope to probe the signal wire and check that it is 'cycling'.
Frankly I would still suspect that they put the wrong sensor in, unless proven otherwise. Can you get the part number that they used to check with Fuel Parts (Fuel Parts would probably still have the order on their computer and could cross-ref for you).
I wouldn't just to any conclusions about the ECU until you are sure it is getting the correct signals.
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Thankyou very much for replying Aprilia. Your advice really is appreciated.
I still believe they might have used the wrong sensor, as the replacement has ITALY stamped on it.This doesn't inspire confidence.
They did keep the old part and when i asked, i was told it had no numbers anywhere on it. Does this sound wrong/unusual?
They have now said they are going down the route of the sensor being wrong.The odd thing is the sensor is working, as the emmissions are all fine. ( he tested it for me 2 weeks ago).
I think you are right,they don't know what they are doing.
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They did keep the old part and when i asked, i was told it had no numbers anywhere on it. Does this sound wrong/unusual?
Well, ask to have it back.
Yes, they do normally have a long P/N marked on them, together with maker's name or logo.
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A final update.
The sensor from fuel parts uk refused to work, so in the end i told them to get a genuine one from Honda at the pricely sum of 240 quid.I was just tired of taking the car in and catching the bus to work.
They were very good and only charged me minimal labour (20 quid). I think i have been a little bit unlucky, as they said they have had hondas in before with failed lambda sensors and a non-genuine sensor cured the problem.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
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Glad you got it sorted...at last.
Quite often with Japanese cars, it's hard to get pattern parts. There's often no listing, or the listing doesn't quite match the car, and then there's no stock in the country.
With my two Jap cars, I've pretty much given up looking for cheaper pattern stuff, life's too short. Sensors, brake pads, radiators, batteries, exhausts, belts etc. I just go down the dealer and stump up the cash. The parts are available next day, they always fit first time, and most importantly they work.
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Yeah, i agree. I was used to being able to use aftermarket parts on my old car (306), but it seems that with jap cars original parts only will do. At least you know they are of excellent quality.
It hasn't put me off this car or jap cars in general, but it is something to be aware of.
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false info mil light not mot failure in uk
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1013 is high for lambda reading does the engine run ok as ur car has 2 o2 sensors one before cat which controls emissions and would cause running faults and another after cat too monitor emisions from cat, all so was he able too clear the code because i would of thought the light would of gone out at first then returned later and then u would be having this discussion, because most cars reset after 40 cycles and o2 sensor with in limits so maybe he has not got the fasility to clear and is relying on the 40 cycle mallarcy ,plus its all ways better to fit geniune sensoe but pattern can get u out of trouble, think u need a more confident mechanic i would never mug off a customer with 40 cycle story a good garage will sort thuis cheaply
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