Lots of mini-threads seem to be emerging here:
1) I am not Cliff Pope in South Africa
2) I have quite a lot of the tyres on my 2 cars with inner tubes. The Triumph is mostly inner tubed because the old wheels don't seal very well with tubeless. The Volvo alloys were fitted with tubes by the garage, because the man said older alloys get porous. There has been a long thread by people disputing that point, but the fact is a reputable garage advised it, and supplied the tubes free. Also I checked the Dunlop website and they say nearly all their tubeless tyres are suitable for inner tubes.
I think the point may be that low-profile tyres can't take inner tubes, but older sizes (185 R 14, 175R 13 in my examples)can and do.
3)Back to the main thread - I agree some tyre changers appear to abuse the tyre when fitting. It would be interesting to have some observations from a professional.
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I would be interested if someone could confirm the point about legallity of fitting tubes to tubeless tyres. Whether it is true, and if so is a regulation,industry advice or "good practice"
the other thing is that fitting a tube to cure a puncture is not the same as fitting one to cure porous wheels.
Many years ago I took a tyre into a centre to change it as the tube was punctured. I paid for a new tubeless tyre and valve. I had to take it back as it still leaked, only to find the tube still inside. Needless to say, never used that centre again
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Crinkly Dave,
It may be of interest that my brand new motorbike tyres have embossed on the sidewall 'Tubeless - if fitted to a tube-type rim fit a tube' , which does suggest there is no blanket ban on the practice, and I am pretty sure there is no legal issue for cars or bikes.
I think it was mentioned in another thread that some tubeless car tyres are suitable for running with tubes and some are not, depending on the design of the interior of the tyre, so the rule would seem to be to check with the manufacturers first.
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For my part, I don't use the automatic tyre fitting machines even if they are available to me. I find that I can change a tubeless tyre in a similar time to that taken by a colleauge using the machine.
During the time while my father's workshop was still running, I was by far the youngest there, so, tyre fitting and puncture repair fell to me. Only when my tyre fitting duties were finished could I get involved with anything more interesting!
Mending truck tyres with tyre levers follows the same sort of procedure, it is just a lot harder work!
I prefer using the tyre levers and a hammer because you can feel if you are getting it wrong. If the tyre doesn't go over the bead easily, I know that either I haven't got the diametrically opposite part of the bead sat in the well of the rim properly, or I haven't got enough lube paste on the bead. Either way, I can correct it before I strain the bead - I'm not sure how you would prevent this type of problem using the machine.
Number_Cruncher
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"I prefer using the tyre levers and a hammer"
Having followed the procedure as outlined in Haynes (for a bike with steel rims) I understand the bit about the opposite bead in the well and the levers, but where does the hammer come in, please?
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For a bike tyre, I probably wouldn't bother with the hammer at all.
At certain points in the procedure, while removing or installing a car tyre, a light tap on the bead with a hammer while applying some force to the tyre will gain you more progress than a few minutes of levering.
Fitting tyres manually is one of those jobs where there really is a knack. When you get it right, you don't actually need to apply much force at all to the tyre.
Number_Cruncher
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I recently had a set of new boots fitted to my '95 Range Rover. The Pirelli Scorpions were removed and two of them had tubes fitted! I was gobsmacked.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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>>Fitting tyres manually is one of those jobs where there really is a knack. When you get it right, you don't actually need to apply much force at all to the tyre.
Apart from stubborn one`s,where you end up driving front wheel of another car onto sidewall to release it.Did not often happen but was the only way,if you did not have the modern gear at hand
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Steve
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As NC says, knack is important - but make of tyre is just as important when fitting them manually. Of the tyres I use Michelins and Bridgestone are the easiest to fit, Goodyear are usually pigs to remove and fit. I have to disagree with NC on one point though (again) A decent clout with a decent lump hammer is whats needed !
By the way, I know of one blowout caused by a hammer being left inside the tyre. (No, it wasn't me).
As for tubes, the local tyre shop stocks them in a very limited range of sizes - none for low profile tyres. We sometimes have a hire vehicle returned with an irrepairably damaged tyre with a wrong sized tube stuffed into it, in these cases the hirer pays twice - once to have the tube fitted and again to have it removed and a new tyre fitted.
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