Having just chosen a car for my own 17 y/o daughter for £1,000, I found the Punto to be a good compromise - decent space (esp in rear), parts at scrappies/pattern parts, normal driving characteristics, reasonable ride etc. The budget gave us plenty of choice, and we found a good one. That said a Corsa/Fiesta/106 would be just as competant.
The picnics/beach thing is a bit of a sideshow compared to crashworthiness in my book, as is "image".
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In the extreme cases it's all a bit of a vicious circle - driving 2CVs and Minors and Beetles teaches you about fundamental vehicle dynamics and your own limitations. Today's learners are brought up with servo brakes and steering, ABS, EBD, traction control, ESP, auto-switching headlights and wipers, auto dimming mirrors... (Shouldn't ultrasonic parking sensors now be allowed to be used during the driving test?)
So pretty much "I press this pedal, turn this wheel, and the car will just go round, like on my Playstation, right?"
2CVs wouldn't be all that unsafe if everybody was driving 2CVs. Problems arise when people learn on a benign-handling hatchback with all the driver-aids, then once they've passed, get themselves 2 tons of 4x4 with about as much suspension sophistication as that Minor...
Duchess - I'll bet any amount that you don't actually furnish your daughter with a Challenger tank, so where *will* you draw the line?!
(Myself, I saw a tempting old Volvo 345 advertised the other day)
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Duchess - I'll bet any amount that you don't actually furnish your daughter with a Challenger tank
about 15 years ago, I read someting about somebody in Wiltshire who had bought a Russian tank, which he used to drive around his strawberry farm -- not actually on the plants, I presume.
I don't think it was allowed on the road, and unfortunately they had made him fill up the gun barrel with concrete, which seems to rather take the fun out of it all.
Maybe Duchess's daughter could be equipped with an armoured personnel carrier? There's a few listed at www.milweb.net/classifieds/class2.php?type=1
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Learning in something that doesn't have ABS, power steering etc is probably a good idea, and I'm sure you could sell the 2CV for what you paid for it in 3 years time. As long as it's not rusty, a 2CVs running costs are likely to be cheaper than walking.
I'd consider one, but I'd be scratching my head and try squeezing a Citroen GS engine in for more fun.
Agree about crashworthiness, but roll cages are available from the racing 2CVs and that would probably help out in most cases. I don't subscibe to the "but what if X hits you" because whatever you're in there'll be something bigger on the road.
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Agree 100%. Learn without the things that make life easy (i.e. from first principles) so that nothing surprises you in later life.
It's all very well saying that we have ABS as standard now so why learn on a car without it. But, so away on holiday to a third world country and you may find yourself behind the wheel of a car with the technical innovations that were the in thing 20 years ago.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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But, away on holiday to a third world country and you may find yourself behind the wheel of a car with the technical innovations that were the in thing 20 years ago. --
Or you may choose to drive a classic supercar in years to come and find that it's not fitted!
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I thought myself to drive in a Reliant Regal van, so a 2CV would have been a vehicle of considerable luxury. And as I ride a bike, the fact that my car doesn't have all the latest up to the minute safety gizmos holds no worries.
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as I ride a bike, the fact that my car doesn't have all the latest up to the minute safety gizmos holds no worries.
It's funny people today getting worried about the safety of their beloved offspring in a 2CV. 30 years ago we all rode around in what would today be called death traps, often without seat belts, and our doting parents thought nothing of it.
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So pretty much "I press this pedal, turn this wheel, and the car will just go round, like on my Playstation, right?"
Agree 100% with that. Modern cars make poor cars to learn in. They have no feel what so ever and seem to have some degree of numbness built into them. I learnt in series 2 Micra, which was totally numb, as if the pedals and steering wheel weren?t linked to anything much in particular.
However, I also learned in my 1993 Polo, which far from being unrefined, taught me lot more and taught me far faster too. (No PAS EBD etc, and a 4 speed 'box)
A 2cv would probably teach the learner far quicker, but it's throwing you in at the deep end. Not as unsafe as some would have you believe.
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I don't care much for all this fancy technology...like brakes and seatbelts either but a 2CV?
I was following one one night - couldn't have been doing more than 40mph because I was about to overtake when it went around a gentle bend (I never even eased off) and the entire side lifted up abotu a foot in the air.
I got past it pretty sharpish!
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Adam
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A driving instructor told us once someone in Surrey turned up at the center with a CV6 years ago, the cheif examiner IIRC had a look at it & refused to conduct the test!!!!
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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May be a reason for that apart from the car itself.
I was taking my test at the same time a girl I knew who was taught by her father in an old Austin. The L plate was not vertical and could barely been seen from the road as it was almost flat, stuck onto the bonnet.
The examiner gave them three minutes to sort it and when they could not, he cancelled the test and they lost the test fee and and to re-apply.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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around a gentle bend (I never even eased off) and the entire side lifted up abotu a foot in the air.
They're well known for lots of body roll, but I don't think it would ever roll over? Not like some of the less sophisticated 4x4s or the old Mercedes A Class!
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They're well known for lots of body roll, but I don't think it would ever roll over?
A few years ago, on either Screensport (a now ceased satellite channel) or Eurosport - there was Citroen 2CV racing on a dirt track, with an added bonus thrown in for anyone managing to roll one over. No one managed it.
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Had it gone much quicker around the bend, i'd say it would have gone over. That's my expert analysis anyway.
I had two people in the car and both of them shouted...well - they shouted something when they saw it lift off put it that way.
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Adam
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Adam
If you tried driving a 2CV fast around a corner you would find the body roll to be slightly unnerving at first, then once used to it - it becomes fun. The point is the more the body rolls the more uncomfortable it becomes to drive and you automatically ease off the throttle before you start to lift a wheel. A modern car might stay flat but usually gives no warning as to when it looses grip on the road. Which is more dangerous?
Driving a 2CV, which has a very small engine, you try to keep the speed up as it takes time to accelerate again. This teaches you to anticipate what is going to happen ahead and how to drive smoothly. More powerful cars certainly do not help yo do either of these.
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