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often it is to do with time consuming jobs that the average person can't do themselves so things like welding, installing new copper brake pipes etc. Cost of the pipes or welding patchs isn't a great deal but they are not quick repairs so if your paying to have the work done it will be costly.
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These days it seems that older second hand cars are worth effectively nothing and so when your otherwise prefectly fine car needs 4 tyres and an exhaust for the MOT and this runs to say £400 then its cheaper to scrap and get a car with 12 months ticket from the auctions for £150. Most usually have 6 months tax as well...
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a slight digress..Haven't scrapped a car for many years, so my question is what is the procedure nowadays? what's involved? what do you do with the new style V5 and is it free?
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For Imagos:
www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/regveh_whatmustido.htm
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Anything which costs more to repair than the car is worth, I suppose. It used to be rust, but my cars these days seem to fail on things like brake problems, suspension joints etc. Electronically controlled emissions / fuelling stuff will also be a difficulty, I guess.
I'm currently on a 10 year old Pug 306 diesel - very basic with no electrics for locks or windows. It's got 186k miles on the clock, and is in decent condition with 2 owners from new. However, with its value currently at a few rounds of drinks, surely I'd be a fool to spend more than £100 on it come MoT time? Seems a shame (and a bit wasteful?) to throw away a mostly OK car...
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Built in obsolence is what kills cars.
In my (amateur and unknowledgable opinion) the car manufacturers could easily build a car that lasted 15 - 20 years and never broke down (Well OK not never but you se what I mean)
They have the technology nowadays, not just in design and manufacturing but also embedded, e.g. it would be simple to lower the rev limit while the engine is cold but I've only heard of one car that does this (I forget the name, a BMW or Porsche I think. Also, maybe have a 'Fifth gear' reminder (Yes some people STILL forget to use it!) Although the new variable service indicators seem a good idea, taking into account stop start journeys etc.
You see what I mean. But then they wouldn't make any money selling spares, etc.
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Anything which costs more to repair than the car is worth, I suppose
More correctly - Anything which costs more to repair than a replacement would cost. +/- scrapping cost/handout.
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"Built in obsolence is what kills cars. In my (amateur and unknowledgable opinion) the car manufacturers could easily build a car that lasted 15 - 20 years and never broke down (Well OK not never but you se what I mean)"
Yes but the initial purchase price would go up, and most customers would not buy the thing. Sales seem to be very price sensitive, except perhaps in the prestige market. I would presume that prestige brand cars such as Jags tend to last longer, but that's just a guess.
One good thing this government are doing is to factor the cost of recycling a car into the purchase price, which might lead to increased longevity, or at least increased recycling of components.
Leif
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Just scrapped SWmBO's long and trusty servant, 14yo BX 19TGD Estate. Failed MoT on steering rack (£600), several other incipient failures listed as advisories.
The car was bought as a 40k mile two year old so we knew all it's history etc, but is was worth around £150 tops. Nonetheless if it was just the £600 I think we'd have paid up and kept it on. To us it was worth much more than it's market value because we knew it history.
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Even if oil changes are forgotten, and it hasn't had its oil changed every 3000 miles with the latest semi-synthetic or whatever oil(as so many advocate), it is rarely the engine that sends a car to its automotive grave.
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often wondered this and have put it down to 'keeping up with the Jones's'
I thought about changing my girlfriends 8 yr old Rover 214 as its cost a fair bit this year (£900 replacing head gasket, radiator, starter motor, 4 tyres and brake pads and discs). Then i realised that even if it cost me this much each year and even more on top, I would still be better off than paying depreciation, dealer servicing and interest on finance. Also, even relatively new cars need tyres and pads etc that are deemed as 'wear and tear' and not covered by warranty.
Even if the car is worth only a few hundred its still worth repairing IMO as it is far less costly in the long run....shame she wants something much newer 'cos all her friends have new cars and hers is now 'old'.
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....shame she wants something much newer 'cos all herfriends have new cars and hers is now 'old'.
I'm sure you will have fun watching her make her choice and sorting out her funding. Please tell me you'll be watching her make her choice and sorting out her funding?
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I presume cam-belt snapping damage to engines has killed off many early/mid 90's Vauxhalls...
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"I thought about changing my girlfriends"
Me too, but likely to be expensive. An apostrophe would make a difference, though... :-)
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it is rarely the engine that sends a car to its automotive grave.
I reckon my mum's 106 will go out with an engine problem eventually. The head gasket's bust and the throttle body has jerked the car along like a kangaroo since we got it.
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Mike Farrow
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I've never understood the argument of scrapping a car just because it will cost more to fix than its market value. What is important is what the car is worth to you. If the rest of the car is good, why not spend the money?
How absurd it is that a good car like a Mondeo or Vectra could end up on a scrap heap just because a wear and tear item like a clutch has worn out. Particularly when doing that job on a Sierra or Cavalier was child's play. Is this progress?
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>>I've never understood the argument of scrapping a car just because it will cost more to fix than its market value. What is important is what the car is worth to you. If the rest of the car is good, why not spend the money?
Because you can buy a whole new car for less than what it will cost you to repair the old one. Now, if you believe that your car is worth more than its market value as perceived by others, then that is up to you!
If you have an ancien Vectra that is going to need £300 to put a new clutch in, but you can buy a new Vectra for £150, then why bother paying the extra?
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A colleague has bought a succession of cheap cars ,taxed and tested; latterly an Audi 80 and before that a Sierra. He never services them - merely topping up the oil. The engines have not been the reason for scrapping eventually. The Audi needed expensive suspension repairs for the MOT. Another Audi has just hit our car park for less than half the annual depreciation on my VW.
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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>>>> If you have an ancient Vectra that is going to need £300 to put a new clutch in, but you can buy a new Vectra for £150, then why bother paying the extra?
True. The only reason is that the replacement Vectra might also need a new clutch in it, whereas you know that yours has been done.
I suppose that's partly about knowing the history of the car though, as said above
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Capitalism finishes cars off.
We expect to earn high wages, by implication putting up the cost of repairs and parts. Even cheap imported parts still need distributing/selling/fitting.
We, as yet, have no real concience about dumping(getting rid of, not abandoning) a car/washing machine, TV, etc and buying another, because the cleft stick of capitalism means that the supply of new(er) cars,TVs, etc is abundant. The rate at which old fridges built up a couple of years ago before a "clean" method of disposal was found bears this out.
WEE and RHOS directives will have some impact on this, but not much.
When supply of either money or goods tightens up, and it will,(see thread on the trade being quiet) there will be changes.
Before anyone asks, no, I am not a communist, but not totally capitalist either.
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People tend to want to update to newer cars, which is good because otherwise car design would have progressed much slower and we wouldn't be where we are today.
cheers, SS
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Today's cars could well reach a point in their lives where they are scrapped because the cost of replacing the ignition key is twice what the car is worth.
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(a) I've never understood the argument of scrapping a car just because it will cost more to fix than its market value
(b) Because you can buy a whole new car for less than
what it will cost you to repair the old one.
Now, if you believe that your car is worth more than
its market value as perceived by others, then that is up
to you!
The quotes above highlight the philosophical difference between "bangernomics" and "buy newish and run it into the ground". Both are perfectly valid but different ways of getting value from older vehicles.
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If you have an ancien Vectra that is going to need £300 to put a new clutch in, but you can buy a new Vectra for £150, then why bother paying the extra?
MM - you're conflating the value of your car with the value of the potential replacement car.
The replacement Vectra is priced at £150 to reflect the risk that its clutch is about to go. Your Vectra with a new clutch is worth more, but only you know that. Hence your valuation of the car is higher than anyone else's and the rightful owner is therefore ... you!
It's a reflection of what you keep telling us about bangernomics - condition is everything!
you can buy a new Vectra for £150
Wow. I knew Vauxhall's discount were good, but £150?? ;-)
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>MM - you're conflating the value of your car with the value of the potential replacement car.
Conflating or confusing? Whatever, that is why I wrote: 'Now, if you believe that your car is worth more than its market value as perceived by others, then that is up to you!'
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>>The replacement Vectra is priced at £150 to reflect the risk that its clutch is about to go. Your Vectra with a new clutch is worth more, but only you know that.
No, they are both worth exactly £150 because of the risk that anything might go. Replacing the clutch does not make your car any more 'reliable' than the car I suggest you should buy.
As the Prince of Wales might say, 'Reliable; whatever that means.'
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>>I've never understood the argument of scrapping a car just because it will cost more to fix than its market value. What is important is what the car is worth to you. If the rest of the car is good, why not spend the money? Because you can buy a whole new car for less than what it will cost you to repair the old one. Now, if you believe that your car is worth more than its market value as perceived by others, then that is up to you! If you have an ancien Vectra that is going to need £300 to put a new clutch in, but you can buy a new Vectra for £150, then why bother paying the extra?
Because you have,presumably,kept the old car well maintained.When you buy a'new'one at the sub £1000 level you do not know what may need doing,service history does not apply.
I recently looked over a J reg Primera for someone,it needed new pads,discs , rear wheel cylinders and shoes.He did not want to spend that much money so got rid of it and replaced it with an S reg Fiat Marea,he asked me to have a look at that,can you guess what needs doing?
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Also, maybe have a 'Fifth gear' reminder (Yes some people STILL forget...
What - some sort of widget in the dash that goes 'beep' at 8:30 on Monday?
Mustn't miss VB-H! ;-)
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If you need say a new clutch and a few other expensive changes and can - in our throwaway society- buy a perfectly good replacement car (often newer , safer and to a better spec) for roughly the same money, the LOGICAL choice is to scrap and replace.
Car buying and logic rarely meet but at the bottom end of the market where money is tight then logic often prevails.
SWMBO's Peugoet 106 is 13 years old and well maintained (by me:-). If it was trashed tomorrow, the insurance company would never repair it - but give us the money and run.
So insurers also have a part in cars becoming scrapped.
Of course raw materials - oil, steel etc - are not infinite and although some recycling odes go on, in the long term the current system of throwaway white goods is unsustainable without 100% recycling.
When I have no idea.
madf
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Lets assume you have a oldish Mondeo/Vectra which has slightly tatty bodywork but you know is mechancially sound and otherwise well looked after - trade in value of say £300/£400. It needs a new clutch at a cost of £500.
Logic dictates it is time to scrap the car. However if your budget is only £500 surely (all things being equal) it is better to repair the known quantity than spend on a different car which you have no idea on its pervious history or whatever faults lie around the corner?
On am I being a bit thick?
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The Mondeo could still go wrong though...But at least I'd know how I'd treated it and it's history etc. I think the tempation is just to get another car rather than fix the existing one.
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What finishes cars off in the end?
-Accident damage that makes them unroadworthey, as seen in my late Pug 309 SRi where the shell was swelled in the middle as a result.
-Very serious corrosion, the type of corrosion that removes subframes when the car approaches a bend. Most of us have probably forgotten about real rust, though I have seen a car on it just off the road side with the subframe hanging off.
-Huge amount of repairs for an MOT or running repairs to keep it on the road.
-Loss of value in a car to render it uneconomical to repair. The local scrapyard had an F reg Mitsibushi Galant with all the extras in a few years ago that had 10 months MOT and was a good runner. It had done 160k and needed front pads and a battery, so it was crushed.
-Two or more of the above.
To my mind, I would like some way of telling scientifically when we should get shot of a car before we sink loads of money maintaining it only to find the gearbox packs up. That is what happened to my last van.
H
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