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Trader friend of mine still sells some cheap cars 'without warranty' and writes "Trade Sale" on the receipt. We used to do this years ago when a car was 'sold as seen'. I thought the law had been changed though, and the wording "Trade Sale" no longer exempts the seller from responsibility for defects in the vehicle. Am I right or is my friend right?
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A friend bought a MkI Mondeo as a commuter hack at a low but not "I'm cutting me own throat letting you have it for that" low price. 3 weeks later it dies in an unspectacular fashion, despite convention stating that when a car dies it should do so with plenty of noise, broken valves and a wheel rolling off down the road on it's own.
Matey takes car(cass) back to dealer on an A-bar and stands there tapping his foot. Dealer points to "trade sale" on dealer receipt copy and suggests my friend takes the quivering heap of junk off the premises.
Fastforward 4 months to the local county court. 20 minutes later and my friend has an award for the purchase price of the car in his hands. Bailiffs are currently on the case as the dealer has, unsurprisingly, not paid up yet.
Aprilia, your friend is on dodgy ground.
ND
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If I recall the law correctly
You cannot sign away any legal civil rights you possess under law.
Full stop.
Under any circumstances as a consumer.
So if the law says a Motor Trader is bound by The Sale of Goods Act, that's it. He cannot evade that legal responsibility.
But I am not a lawyer.. ask one!:-) From here..
madf
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I know this one!
The Sale of Goods Act implies certain terms in to contracts made by businesses. These terms include terms as to fitness for purpose and satisfactory quality. They are difficult (but not impossible)to contract out of.
To succesfully contract out, it is neessary to be completely clear. "sold as seen" or "trade sale" does not work.
In many cases the law does not allow you to contract out at all.
Recent legislation says that a fault is presumed to have been oresent at the point of sale if it subsequently appers within 6 months.
Having said that what is "satisfactory quality" is different for a new car and a £250 banger. The price therefore is taken into accountby a court.
This is a simplification, possibly an oversimplification.
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The facts(?):
www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/cars.htm
Some people get confused with other types of consumer protection laws:
www.monikie.org.uk/yourrights.htm
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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the way round it AFAIK is to sell as scrap many dealers around here do this and will tell you it's done so that they can sell with no warranty whatsoever because you as the purchaser cannot claim this or that has gone wrong with the car the dealer can then legally state that he sold you scrap not a car if you chose to use it as a car that's down to you ... clearly marked on receipt sold as scrap and signed by both parties each having a copy...cheers ...keo.
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My mate certainly was not selling cars as scrap. The receipt I saw said:
"Trade sale of Toyota MR2 Reg. No. XYZ1234 £4995"
He seems to put this "trade sale" bit on all his receipts.
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So if the law says a Motor Trader is bound by The Sale of Goods Act, that's it. He cannot evade that legal responsibility.
Me not a lawyer either, but I think that this only applies to retail sales: sales within the trade may be bound a different set of rules.
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A contract is a contract and the law is the law.
The trader can not evade his responsibility under the law of the land if the vehicle is sold as a runner fit for the road.
If however he states on the contract that no warranty as to condition is given or implied and that the car is sold as scrap or for parts then you have a differant situation.
The relevant phrase in the Sale of Goods Act is 'fitness for purpose' it either is or it isn't.
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Reading that again it could be clearer.Its a long time since I did my contract law.
It is for the court to decide whether the motor is 'fit for the purpose for which it was intended'.
If the buyer can prove that he wanted to run the car on the road and that it was bought for that purpose then the court will find in his favour even if the sale contract does say Trade Sale.
If however the seller can produce a sale contract signed by the buyer which specifically states that the vehicle is sold as scrap or for parts then the seller has a good case to argue.
But just putting 'Trade Sale' on the invoice has IMO no effect on the buyers rights under the law.
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In the past when i've sold trade cars the phrase used has been
"Trade sale - vehicle sold as seen and approved. No warranty given nor implied"
No idea of it's legal status but it's worked for me so far.
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It might be possible for a trader to sell a car with no warranty by referring to a trade sale, but only if the buyer is purchasing in the course of business, or sets himself out as doing so.
It is also extremely difficult to exclude liability for misrepresentation, even if the purchaser is a business.
What this means is that you can't call yourself "Pratts Bottom Trade Centre" and sell a range of ropey cars, all of which are sold to the public 'on trade terms' and then disclaim any liability when they blow up two weeks later.
However, somebody buying a £400, M-reg Mondeo from a dealer stocked with three to five year old ex-fleet metal, on trade terms, who is asked whether they are a trader and answers in the affirmative, may find it very difficult to enforce any 'consumer' rights.
The relevant legislation is s.12(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act: a person deals as a consumer if
a) he neither makes the contract in the course of a business nor holds himself out as doing so; and
b) the other party does make the contract in the course of a business; and
c) the goods which are the subject matter of the contract are of a type ordinarily supplied for private use or consumption.
Obviously, all of the above applies only to contracts between traders and consumers; contracts between traders (e.g., a franchise dealer selling a p/x away from the forecourt, or a private sale) will mostly escape the legislation unscathed.
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TRADE SALE - of course it's a trade sale, your a trader & you're selling it to me, mate!!
& if you sell as scrap, or a collection of parts, then VAT needs to be applied to the selling price, else you'll have Customs & Excise, looking you over too!!
Not easy, is it!!??
VB
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...so if I wanted to negotiate a trade price for that TD5 stuck for 4 months in a Nissan Dealership, what should propose?
For my purposes I would want it without warranty, as if it were a private sale, but I would be cutting through all those overpiced landies on the market.
Do I propose a wording, "For repair and preparation to be used on the road"?
NW, there is a distinction between sale of goods to the consumer and sales between businesses. I can't remember what it is at the moment though.
H
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