If MGR still hold the rights to the MG name and the TF I can see the remote possibility of somebody (maybe another car manufacturer) picking up these and integrating MG as a purely sportscar brand into their range. The TF is an old car though and would need re-designing to take a new engine.
The 25 and 75 already appear to have been sold off so these may go back into production along with the K-Series engine in China.
Other than that, MGR appears to be a shell of a company which doesn't really own anything. I think it highly likely that on Monday the administrators will officially shut Longbridge for good.
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Great assets probably mean "lots of unsold new cars we will sell off at a huge discount"
madf
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Quite !
The only company I can think of who would fit what's left of MG-Rover is Lotus ...
so, Proton-Lotus-MG, anyone ?
Still, good job Lotus put that Toyota engine into their Elise ....
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Some fascinating reports this morning about the financial paper trail in MG Rover and early suggestions about an inquiry into it. The Sundays will have even more, no doubt.
However, I've got to say that some of the most interesting snippets of all can be found on this very website. The insights, knowledge and information that have been emerging from Back Roomers during the last 48 hours or so are a tribute to all concerned.
If you want to know what's really going on, read it here.
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Inquiry = government facesaving imo.
Almost all the key financial details of the Phoenix 4 have been made public knowledge when released in annual accounts.
Lets not forget Stephen Byers - that great success as Minister of Transport supported the Rover buyout by Phoenix against the Alchemy deal. And last week Patricia Hewitt said the Rover directors were doing a great job.
So either the Government have found new information in the last 7 days which they have NOT placed in the public domain or an inquiry is just so much spin designed to amke the gullible think the Government is actually on top of the situation and will do soemthing.
With a General Election underway of course it's new information: this Government never spins:-)
madf
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Amazing, is it not, how (with fairly marginal constituency votes at risk) a "prudent" chancellor can suddenly find money to try and ease a problem that arises before the Government expected it to?
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Two points before we get too political. While ever there was a chance of a deal with SAIC the last thing the Government was going to do was rubbish the people fronting it, despite, I suspect, their considerable misgivings. DTI officials were not 100% happy with the Phoenix people but could say nothing. Neither were they 100% happy with SAIC, but that's another story.
And no, it's not surprising that the Government can find money to help suppliers. It has contingencies for exactly that reason. All Governments would do the same.
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According to reports in both the Observer & Times this morning, 'sources' at SAIC are laying claim to the Rover name; perhaps those journalists should be reading the HJ Backroom a bit more, since BMW clearly holds the rights to the Rover name .... !
Still, slick manoeuvring by SAIC to get the rights to so much of Rover Group, and hats of to the directors of Pheonix - I mean, you want a company to invest in a new model, and you're main bargaining assets are 2 cars - the 25 & 75, and an engine range, that your investor wants. So what do you do ? You go & sell them BEFORE they sign up for the joint venture ! Rather confirms what I have found working at many companies over the years - the British workforce are as good as any, but not our management ....
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Well I suspect that after the dirt has flown around, mud has stuck and it all dies down, Chineese built "(L)over 75" will not sell too well in the UK or Europe.
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So.What happens with an older rover that parts are needed for?.Certain parts could only be had through main dealer..
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Steve
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Don't worry steve, with all the stories about Rover's poor reliability there'll be plenty of parts to be had at the scrap yard!
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Well my Mg is a darn sight more reliable than the Passat I owned.
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Well my Mg is a darn sight more reliable than the Passat I owned.
From what several passat owners have told me that won't be very difficult.
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Don't worry steve, with all the stories about Rover's poor reliability there'll be plenty of parts to be had at the scrap yard!
That gives me an idea.
If MGR has a huge stock of unsold cars, is it better to sell them at the huge discounts that will be needed, or store them as a source of parts for the existing stock of cars out there?
Now there's a quandry. And (possibly) an opportunity for someone.
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What a joke. The government has just announced they are going to pour a further 6.5 million into the Rover blackhole to stop redundancies tomorrow. They are still trying to do a deal with SAIC.
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Don't they EVER learn?
NO
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MGR, to be an on-going concern, require at least two new platforms/cars plus essential derivatives (people carriers, crossovers etc.), an updated petrol engine, a brand new common rail diesel plus somebody to stomach the costs whilst all this is developed. As a conservative estimate "saving" MGR in anything remotely like its current format is going to cost about £2bn. Even assuming most production ends up in China development costs are going to be around this figure.
Has SAIC actually got £2bn in cash? They are primarily just an assembler of VW Polos suffering loss of market share in their home market. Even if they were interested have they really got those sort of resources?
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Has SAIC actually got £2bn in cash? They are primarily just an assembler of VW Polos suffering loss of market share in their home market. Even if they were interested have they really got those sort of resources?
Actually, I think the B2 Santana and B5 Passat are Shanghai-VW's biggest sellers. Don't forget the assorted GM models SAIC also assemble under the Buick name, plus the trucks, buses, tractors...
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I hope www.austin-rover.co.uk don't mind me quoting from their site, but they have had better information than the press of late !:
" In its current form MGR and mass production at Longbridge is no more.
SAIC has been quick to withdraw from negotiations due in some part to government involvement; SAIC has begun to smell victory at a liquidated price, and are now viewed as worst enemy.
The Tata/CityRover contract is terminated (or is to be formally so next week).
The Indian SUV and Diesel engine ventures are being offered the Indian companies in order to simplify MGR and raise cash.
Tata has been in formal contact with the administrators about acquiring Powertrain completely, with a view to transfer to India and supply and British manufacturing plant.
A small American firm is interested in purchasing the MG SV for production in the US (and has been for a few months although it was initially just the distribution rights in the US).
A 2000 sale clause with BMW means that Ford/Land Rover are to be offered the Rover name and production rights. It is thought that if MGR goes into liquidation they will purchase the name.
Ford has stopped supplying V8 engines for the SV and ZT/Rover 75, with no more to come until the situation is finalized.
After an approach by the Administrators Ford/PAG confirmed that it does not want MG. The senior managers (not the top table people) think that the problem is this:
A. Too much time spent on wooing the Chinese/Proton.
B. X80/ MG SV project wasted cash for little benefit
C. 75 RWD platform ditto
D. CityRover did damage to brand, and the company spent too much time and effort on deal.
E. Lack of government support.
F. No new metal only pointless and costly refreshes of range with little effect on sales
G. Press attacks stopped showroom traffic
R45 replacement 10 months (and about 80 million) from production build if cash could be found.
Plan B is now MG and Powertrain to retreat to MGR owned Engine plant land, plant set up and TF and ZT to be produced along with if cash can be raised a MG version of the R45 replacement.
Rover brand to be dropped, due to terminal damage.
Possible small volume medium car (R45 replacement) to be built alongside MG version (if cash available) for sale in the UK only as an Austin (or something else not a Rover).
BMW being very helpful at this time (allowing parts still to be shipped etc)
3575 jobs to go at Longbridge.
Studley Castle to be sold and cash to new company, offers already in.
Proton/Tata/SAIC/ unnamed small car company (thought to be Porsche interested in MG only?) approached Administrators about all or part of current MGR.
Current P4 owners still want to be part of business, but feel they will be forced out, no way out but administration to clear problems."
Methinks the Government will continue with it's £6.5 Million/week until the election is done, then pull the plug ...
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SAIC have confirmed this morning that they are not interested in re-starting talks whilst MG-Rover is in administration....
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Picking up on what arnold gleaned from austin-rover.org
Quite possible that Tata might pick up the Powertrain Rover 45 replacement plans (let the chinese keep the old designs)
Move powertain to India, use rover r&d team to develop engine and finish r45 prototype. Retain them for euro inputs. Launch r45 in india as a tata and let it be assembled in birmingham as a Rover probably as a niche vehicle. City Rover replaced by new model on similar lines. Tata is also setting up a plant in south Africa and looking at emerging markets.
Then you get the volumes reasonable costs - (tata sold 50000 Indicas in India /year)
There might be hope but it will take time and there will be some pain. Tata are straight forward and has strong values, they willl respect all parties. They are doing a great job with Daewoo trucks.
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following on from ajit's post. I think some pain is an understatement.
As the administrators are not resuming production, I think the plan ajit mentioned would be lucky to emply more than 150 popel initially.
And a car plant in Longbridge making say 100k cars a year is a recipe for more losses. The place is far too big for those volumes..
Stand by for lots of spin and no results but loads of redundancies.. probleaby befor ethe election unless HMG keep bunging them £millions - which will all be wasted.
Economics wins in the long term.
madf
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HMG will do whatever it takes to prevent images of and headlines about "xx,xxx made redundant" until after the election. If that means paying 6.5 million a week to see longbridge workers clocking on and off as normal then so be it.
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HMG will do whatever it takes to prevent images of and headlines about "xx,xxx made redundant" until after the election.
Exactly. P45s not until on or after May 6th.
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But I happen to believe that the electorate in the Midlands is not as stupid as you would have us believe...
Just been sent a reproduction of the famous Rover badge - the capital R is missing. Very sad.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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>> HMG will do whatever it takes to prevent images of and >> headlines about "xx,xxx made redundant" until after the election. Exactly. P45s not until on or after May 6th.
I'd have no objection to that. If they were paying, that is.
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I still pay taxes in the UK although I live full time in Spain now, so I think I am entitled to say that I resent any of my tax money being used to bail out an insolvent business. In any event it is probably illegal under EU law to subsidise a company's products, which is the effective result of the bung being given.
No-one was interested in helping my business, with job losses (including mine), being incurred, when it had to close some years ago, so why should I sympathise? I don't!
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Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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>>Don't worry steve, with all the stories about Rover's poor reliability there'll be plenty of parts to be had at the scrap yard!
As they all suffer similar problems.It wont be worth going to scrappys..Just had this problem with a rear wiper motor.Not one out of all the cars they had worked..Rovers want £56+VAT
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Steve
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