As per previous thread, I want to get a new or nearly new Rover V8. Can anyone with trade sources, possibly even HJ tel me:
1) Has the collapse been factored into trade prices already by the "smart" money?
2) Are prices likely to fall a lot?
3) Is there likely to be an auction at some point of a load of Rovers in a fire sale way.
I know it is too early to say for certain re above, but an educated guess by some traders would really help me.
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I'd ask some serious questions about servicing and parts availability. Those issues are only likely to get worse in the future, so long term depreciation will probably be quite serious too!
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Keep parts availability in perspective, apart from specific body or trim panels which should be around for at least 5-10 years parts availability is not really going to be a problem for a very long time.
I have not (touch wood!) encountered much difficulty in getting "normal" parts for the Commer over the years and they went out of production in 1981 and, to many people, were not exactly "classics" (needless to say I stll think it's a classic.)
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You could probably buy the whole company for the cost of a new car at the moment.
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I'm sure you'll be able to buy brake pads from Partco for decades, but what about if the electric windows pack up, or the ECU for the aircon? There are probably 7,000 components on a car made in 1980, it's more like 17,000 now!
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"like 17,000 now!"
and very few of them are unique to one car.
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"like 17,000 now!" and very few of them are unique to one car.
True, but mechanics won't diagnose a problem down to a faulty resistor, just down to which module. All these modules live in custom tooled plastic housings, and getting anything less than 1000 made is next to impossible, stocking these parts is quite a cost so it's anyone's guess what Caterpillar will do.
Risky though, I'd say,
Ex-employee of one of Rover's suppliers
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I had been thinking on those lines too, only with regard to the MG ZT 260; it could replace both hobby and utility cars. The trouble is selling them - I'm no good at that!
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I'd wait a little, it takes a while for prices to reach their natural level at auction. Reason for this is auction houses will normaly run cars through quite a few times for large sellers. Rovers have been cheap for a while - could be some real value cars about imho.
If the administrators have a liquidation sale, I am sure you will hear about it on here - then they will be cheapish - early cars in an auction often sell for less than later ones.
Other factors will be where else they might sell them; and large exporters, supersites and car rental companies are potential customers for generating quick, big cash.
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No car components or parts supplier is going to overlook a massive potential customer base for a considerable number of years to come merely because the manufacturer goes out of business (let's hope that something can be resolved in Rover's case, although it's not looking too hopeful).
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Anyone who is at the auction over the next few days could you check the prices Rovers are selling for and let us know?
cheers
Ed.
Eyes right, or click on this:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/index.htm?news_id=2126
HJ
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my father in law wants a rover 45, he wants to spend about 5k, he was going to a dealer but i said to wait a while and see what happens. may pick one up at auction.
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Bear in mind that some of the parts suppliers might not survive past next week either...
I personally wouldn't touch a Rover with yours. Rcokbottom resale values will go into free-fall Korea-style.
What is VITALLY important is that the Chinese AREN'T allowed to buy any Rover assets from the receivers.
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What is VITALLY important is that the Chinese AREN'T allowed to buy any Rover assets from the receivers.
Why? It doesn't seem as though anybody else had any interest in Rover - if they are dead, surely the only consideration is to raise as much as possible to try to save the creditors?
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>> >> What is VITALLY important is that the Chinese AREN'T allowed to >> buy any Rover assets from the receivers. >> Why? It doesn't seem as though anybody else had any interest in Rover - if they are dead, surely the only consideration is to raise as much as possible to try to save the creditors?
I would agree with you M'Lady, if the major creditor was the pension fund. Alas it will be HM Customs and Excise.
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How about Rover's suppliers who stopped providing parts after not being paid? Rover might be terminally ill but there might be a chance to stop it spreading further
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Again M'Lady ( bows ) I agree with you, but under UK bankrupcy and insolvency laws HM customs and excise, and inland revenue (ok now both the same) are first in line to be paid if they are owed. Plus they have to be paid IN FULL, not a proportion.
SO if MGR collapse owing 100 million, and HMC&E are owed 100 million, thats where it all goes.
This is why bankrupcy and insolvency is controlled by a government department, The Insolvency Service (part of the DTI)to ensure government gets its teeth in the bone first.
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Again M'Lady ( bows ) I agree with you, but under UK bankrupcy and insolvency laws HM customs and excise, and inland revenue (ok now both the same) are first in line to be paid if they are owed. Plus they have to be paid IN FULL, not a proportion.
Not any more - part of the Enterprise Act 2002 was that Crown preference (as they called it) was abolished for insolvency proceedings commencing on or after 15 September 2003. The only people who get to be first in the queue in this way now are, in fact, employees made redundant as a consequence of the insolvency (but only in respect of arrears of wages up to a certain limit, and holiday pay for holiday accrued but not taken).
Subject to the above, the people who will have their noses in the trough first on a job like this will, by and large, be the banks, who will have charges of one sort or another over whatever the assets turn out to be. I will be very, very surprised if there is anything left for anyone else after they've finished.
This is why bankrupcy and insolvency is controlled by a government department, The Insolvency Service (part of the DTI)to ensure government gets its teeth in the bone first.
You're dead right about the teeth in the bone bit, but the way in which HM Gov't does this is rather more sneaky (and remunerative) - they insist that funds realised in insolvencies are paid into an account operated by the DTI, taking a pretty hefty (nowadays, about 17%) rake-off of *everything* paid in to that account, and charging fees for various sorts of transactions that would get your average high-street bank reported to the OFT for abusive trading practices.
To put it in perspective, say you were dealing with the insolvency of a small company and you sold the assets and got £50k - well, taking into account the aforementioned levy and various charges and statutory payments you have to make, you'd lose the thick end of 9 grand to HM Gov't before you even start.
Nice of them, isn't it? :-)
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I've never quite understood this, why when companies go to the wall is the biggest creditor always the taxman? Don't you have to make a profit to be liable for corporation tax?
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Defered VAT payments, stuff like that.,
Dont forget that the company acts as a tax collector for the government, and as such there will always be money in the pipeline that was heading to the government.
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Bear in mind that some of the parts suppliers might not survive past next week either...>>
Are you confusing manufacturing parts suppliers with retail/trade parts suppliers?
The former, whilst facing problems because of Rover's setbacks, are not delivering parts to the factories in certain instances because they believe that they might not receive payment. It's an understandable approach.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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What is VITALLY important is that the Chinese AREN'T allowed to buy any Rover assets from the receivers.
Too late...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4423725.stm
K-Series, 25 and 75 rights already sold.
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"I actually want to buy a Rover."
I suggest you lie down in a darkened room until the feeling passes.
Body parts are unlikely to be available soon. Despite what has been said above, Rover volumes have been so low, it will likely to be uneconomic for a spares operation to keep presses running to produce 50 front wings on spec. Not unless the price is right.
And it will often be trim parts which will be unavailable or unique to model parts.
And insurance companies will start to factor these into their costs..
According to the Daily Torygraph, HMG are owed £40M plus for NI and VAT. Then there is stautory redundancy pay for the employees.. most of whom will lose their jobs in 2 weeks or less if my experience with administrators is anything to go by.
With few assets except finishe dstock and creditors and wages due, I doubt the pesnion fund will be apid up either... I expect employer payments have not been made for months.
Wait for the horror stories to roll out.
madf
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My question is - who will honour the warranty? AFAIK 3 year warranty is usually made up of 2 year manufacturer and 1 year dealer funded?
So if there is no manufacturer, who will honour it? And if there is no manufacturer, there will be no dealers??
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I personally wouldn't touch a Rover with yours. Rcokbottom resale values will go into free-fall Korea-style.
The latest South Korean cars hold their value better many other brands, old models drop like a stone but the latest stuff is good.
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The latest South Korean cars hold their value better many other brands, old models drop like a stone but the latest stuff is good.
That's because all the older drivers that used to buy Rovers and were alienated by the "yooful" rebranding had to switch to something else.
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I've just spoken to a mate who is the Sales Manager at Rover dealership in Derby and he says that they have sold 2 pre-reg 05 75's this morning and had their best sales month ever in March!
They are knocking out MGZT diesels at £13K with the Rover 3 year warranty underwritten by Inchcape.
They're doing 75 CDTi Connouisseur SE at around the same price.
If I hadn't already bout a new Primera for the same sort of money in December I'd be sorely tempted
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I actually want to buy a Rover
H'm. Best to buy a dog I think.
Oz (as was)
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