I encounter the two lorry problem regularly on the A14 between the M1Junction all the way to Cambridge.
The record so far is "only" 7 miles so well done to your two lorries for beating my personal best!
It's just one of those situations where everyone thinks they should have priority. They are all wrong! I should! :-)
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In this case the situation seems to have been somewhat ridiculous, but Lorry drivers have a job to do and HGV's are part of the reason the motorway and trunk dual carriageway network were built in the first place.
I never get bothered by lorries going slower than me - when I drove HGVs I'm sure I held motorists up. It's the lorries travelling too fast that do worry me!!
People are prepared to sit behind slower vehicles on single carriageways, so what's the difference in lane 2 of a dual carriageway if the vehicle in front is travelling faster than the line of traffic in lane 1? The 2-lane section of the M11 in Cambridgeshire is a classic example, when busy - 45-55 mph traffic (mostly heavies) on inside lane, 65-70+ in outside lane.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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People are prepared to sit behind slower vehicles on single carriageways, so what's the difference in lane 2 of a dual carriageway if the vehicle in front is travelling faster than the line of traffic in lane 1? The 2-lane section of the M11 in Cambridgeshire is a classic example, when busy - 45-55 mph traffic (mostly heavies) on inside lane, 65-70+ in outside lane. Cheers, Sofa Spud
Part of the purpose of dual carriageways is to allow easier overtaking, I would have thought. Blocking off the overtaking option for mile after mile is not what it is supposed to be about.
On single carriageways, there isn't really much choice, whether one is happy about it or not.
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>>But impeding the progress of other drivers in a narrowminded manner is hardly likely to win public support.
Indeed. Especially when they indulge in the petty, illegal, smallminded enforcement of lane closure, up to a mile before it actually is.
And if you're the truck driver who tried that on with me last week on the M40, I was in the blue Landcruiser, that didn't go very well, did it ! 8-) Bet you won't be trying that again for a while.
I dislike all this "truck drivers are working so they deserve special consideration". Absolute claptrap. I am working as well, so they better start considering others.
About time we got mroe freight back on the rail which would help to free up the road system and get a few more of these inconsiderate idiots off the road. And if you're a truck driver and feel that you are not an idiot, then this clearly doesn't apply to you. On the other hand, if you feel you've just been insulted, then you probably have been.
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About time we got mroe freight back on the rail which would help to free up the road system and get a few more of these inconsiderate idiots off the road.
In the meantime, a few traffic cops to hand out copies of the Highway Code would help
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About time we got mroe freight back on the rail which would help to free up the road system and get a few more of these inconsiderate idiots off the road.
A spokesman from within the road transport industry was calling the other day for a drastic reduction in the number of cars on the roads so that freight could be transported more efficiently.
Re: speed limiters: I'd rather be stuck behind a lorry doing 56 mph than be tailgated by one doing 65 mph!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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[quote Mark]Indeed. Especially when they indulge in the petty, illegal, smallminded enforcement of lane closure, up to a mile before it actually is.
And if you're the truck driver who tried that on with me last week on the M40, I was in the blue Landcruiser, that didn't go very well, did it ! 8-) Bet you won't be trying that again for a while.[/quote]
Please take the time to explain how a truck can block off lane 3 approaching roadworks Mark????????????
Bearing in mind of course that Trucks are excluded from using lane 3 on Motorways, errrrmmmm the M40 is a Motorway I believe, hence the "M" prefix?
You also say
[quote]And if you're the truck driver who tried that on with me last week on the M40, I was in the blue Landcruiser, that didn't go very well, did it ! 8-) Bet you won't be trying that again for a while.[/quote]
hhhmmmm yet an open admission of being a prize pratt toying with a truck larger than your landcruiser?????
So come on please do tell us how many innocent lives your actions risked trying to be Mr Clever Cloggs !!!!!!
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Much as it's hilarious watching you dig your hole even deeper, in the interests of fair play I should warn you that that "prize pratt" is actually a moderator.
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Adam
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Much as it's hilarious watching you dig your hole even deeper, in the interests of fair play
fair play? Have some more popcorn.
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You like your popcorn tonight NW.
Or is it code for something that I've completely missed.
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Adam
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You like your popcorn tonight NW. Or is it code for something that I've completely missed.
When you take your seat in the cinema to watch an action movie, you gotta have popcorn. "Return of The Truckers" merits a jumbo portion of popcorn ...
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Lol. Gotcha.
This is sooo going to get deleted. One of the rare times where you can't blame them really.
I'm awaiting the sequel,
"Revenge Of The Mod: This time it's Personal"
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Adam
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hhhmmmm yet an open admission of being a prize pratt trying to be Mr Clever Cloggs !!!!!!
truckjockey,
I'm sure Mark will be along shortly to reply to your post, but in the meantime, as already mentioned elsewhere in this thread; debate & discuss by all means, but keep the personal insults out of this forum.
::8< scissors poised and ready to trash this thread if the insults continue::
DD. BR Moderator.
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>>Please take the time to explain how a truck can block off lane 3 approaching roadworks Mark
About a week ago, later in the evening, about 9 ish I think. Central barriers repair at Junction 11 London bound. Truck in the middle lane moved across "fast" lane toward central barrier to prevent me getting through about 3/4 mile before that lane was coned off. At Junc 11 all lanes were coned off and traffic was moved to the hard shoulder.
>>hhhmmmm yet an open admission of being a prize pratt toying with a truck larger than your landcruiser?????
TRuck failed to notice that at one point the barrier narrowed where there is an occaional crossover for use in roadworks and the like. I passed the truck - he was doing about 5mph, I was doing about 10mph. Then I stopped. Therefore, so did he. All rather silly really.
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Mark (RLBS) Said "And if you're the truck driver who tried that on with me last week on the M40, I was in the blue Landcruiser, that didn't go very well, did it ! 8-) Bet you won't be trying that again for a while."
Please do take the time to tell us what stupid thing you did to this Truck Driver on the M40??????
Ohhh and also include the amount of innocent lives you put at Risk whilst performing such stupidity ;-)
Lets hope that nobody does anything as stupid that may just injure your family on the roads ;-)
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The 'fa.com' bus nearly caused an accident involving me yesterday as a result of a similar manouver. M1 north near Barnsley - a two mile stretch of uphill motorway. I'm in middle lane overtaking a lorry and the bus in inside lane. Notice bus is getting nearer the lorry and look to move to outside lane, but I am aware of a Daewoo Nexia (?) in the outside lane trying to get up in 5th gear fully loaded - with too much weight and little power he isn't overtaking me very quickly!
As I get within a couple of car lengths of the bus and thinking I was at the point where he wouldn't pull out, guess what? He indicates once and pulls out, leaving me no option but to slam on the brakes. There was nothing behind me and as I was only in the smart it wouldn't have had to wait long for me to pass! I also wonder why he waited until he could almost touch the wagon before pulling out!
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It's arrogance pure and simple, they think that they can do whatever they like because they're a bigger vehicle.
And taking up two lanes on roundabouts and left turns? All that stuff in the sticky about lorries overtaking - clap trap. It doesn't matter if you need both lanes. You don't have a right to it, and you have to wait until the road is clear for you to make that manouvere - not expect other road users to make room for you.
It's very fundamental, and it doesn't matter what the realities of HGV driving on a daily basis are. You must not cause inconvinience to other road users, same as everyone else. If you sit side-by-side trying to overtake, that's causing an inconvinience. If you take up two lanes, you don't have right of way to do that and you must wait until the road is clear.
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>>And taking up two lanes on roundabouts and left turns? <<
How else do you propose they do it?
Agree about overtaking and all that business though. Really annoying and that is avoidable.
One thing that does impress me is when they reverse into the Truck Yard. Those guys have talent.
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Adam
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Hey Adam! You should see them trying to reverse into a hole at Tesco in High Wycombe, some can but some drivers just cant hack it all leaving the rest of town gridlocked!!
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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I'm glad I don't see that!!!
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Adam
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It's arrogance pure and simple, they think that they can do whatever they like because they're a bigger vehicle. And taking up two lanes on roundabouts and left turns? All that stuff in the sticky about lorries overtaking - clap trap. It doesn't matter if you need both lanes. You don't have a right to it, and you have to wait until the road is clear for you to make that manouvere - not expect other road users to make room for you. It's very fundamental, and it doesn't matter what the realities of HGV driving on a daily basis are. You must not cause inconvinience to other road users, same as everyone else. If you sit side-by-side trying to overtake, that's causing an inconvinience. If you take up two lanes, you don't have right of way to do that and you must wait until the road is clear.
You're quite correct,we don't have a right to it,but I ask you this,if I,and my thousands of fellow drivers didn't take up 2 lanes on a roundabout,and only used 1,what would happen to the pedestrian on the path when my trailer cuts in and he/she gets killed,or my trailer anialates the passenger side of your car because I don't have enough room.Who you gonna blame for that one?
As a professional driver,I agree that a lot of HGV drivers don't give consideration to others,however,it works both ways,insofar as a lot of car drivers,and obviously you are one of them,don't understand the room a 60foot outfit needs.
If you would care to register on the site listed below,and put your opinion on the drivers forum,then see what replies you get.
Ken.
trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/
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And while I'm on a rant,if you put more freight on our totally useless railway,how does it get to it's final destination,fly?
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>>insofar as a lot of car drivers,and obviously you are one of them,don't understand the room a 60foot outfit needs.
As it goes, whilst it was a long time ago, I got my class I with Debenhams and used to trail aroudn the country in one of their wagons. Then did a bit for others.
So, I am a car driver, I do know what its like in a truck, and I still think that far too many truck drivers are inconsiderate idiots.
Oh and as for...
>>1,what would happen to the pedestrian on the path when my trailer cuts in and he/she gets killed,or my trailer anialates the passenger side of your car because I don't have enough room.Who you gonna blame for that one?
You, for not being able to drive.
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something tells me a bunch of new truckers are about to register and contribute.
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Might not be a bad thing Mark after the initial onslaught. Didn't tack and Retro come here on the bounce about Sierras? They're great posters now.
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Adam
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It's absolutely brilliant how car drivers are the first to criticise the truck drivers in this tale, yes maybe they are Morons but surely not one complaint about a can being thrown has been made, so I take it that this is okay because it was only thrown at a Truck Driver?
As an HGV Driver I can specifically state it's time that part of the driving test should also include 1 full days attendance of accompanying a Truck Driver for a true lesson on the pratts that truckers encounter each and every day on this countries roads.
Part of the OFFICIAL HGV Driving Test includes splitting the lanes at roundabouts and junctions to Prevent pratts trying to squeeze up the side of trucks in a bid to get past, so if you have a complaint about junctions etc being blocked Mark (RLBS) take it up with the Government, you claim to hold an HGV1 licence but are too idiotic to realise the swing of the trailer would cross the path??? perhaps its just as well you now drive a car as your obviously unaware of the dangers in an HGV.
Yes I do disagree with the drivers taking 8 miles to pass, common sense would tell one to ease back but it's that male pride that tends to kick in and yes they should have both been reported. But lets not forget the moronic car drivers who enter a motorway, the truck will ease over into the central lane and what does the car driver insist on doing? Yes he either sits in lane one running alongside the truck or takes his time passing on the inside lane leaving the truck stranded in the central lane.
Whilst we are on about car drivers, why do they insist on charging up the outside lane of Motorways despite road signs advising of roadworks 200 yards up, just to cause delays to others by forcing the central lane to stop or slow down to let them in?
What about dual carriageways where trucks are indicating to pull out because of a slow moving vehicle ahead, Mr Car Driver does not slow down to allow the truck to pull out but instead forces the truck to brake therefore losing momentum which may take another 3 miles to regain when fully loaded.
Yes criticise truck drivers as much as you want but bear two thoughts in mind first, dont criticise truck drivers until you get your own house in order and secondly, remember without trucks there would be no cars, your car was delivered by a truck, and even if you collected your car personally from the factory, how did the materials get there, how does the fuel get to the petrol garages but most of all how does your food get to the shops.
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... you claim to hold an HGV1 licence but are too idiotic to realise ...
Time to order the popcorn. This thread looks like being good theatre!
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It would be if it wasn't going to get deleted.
It is isn't it.
:-)
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Adam
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Truckjockey, steady on! Some of us appreciate the problems you have. I have seen the truck/car manoevre at motorway junctions, and put it down to the class of car driver who drives at one set speed regardless. At roundabouts I give trucks the same as an elephant with diorhea, plenty of room, it seems an obvious thing to do. Yes, trucks can be driven badly, but so can cars. We road users should be united against the anti-road anti-driving mob, not infighting!
Cheers.
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As the original poster can I point out that I in no way condone the can throwing I merely reported what I saw.
Equally I do not condone either the car drivers hurling abuse or the lorry driver hurling abuse back.
As I have the soul of a biker even when driving a tin can (as I was) I stayed out it because I did not want to argue with a full size artic in any way shape or form. I would suggest to young Mark that big as a Landcruiser maybe playing chicken with artics can lead to serious flattening.
As to cars pulling up the inside of lorries on roundabouts, my mate runs a major haulage firm and he recons a lot of people do this deliberately and then claim £500 of damage on their (probably worthless) car because of course £500 is the insurance excess for most trucks...
Finally whilst I accept that truckers will defend other truckers can we all agree that the driver of the overtaking truck was most likely Mr. Richard Head?
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Spot on mjm - I too get equally annoyed by truckers overtaking at an aggregate overtake speed measured in yards per mile and also
car drivers tearing up the outside lane at roadworks and only pulling in at the cones.
IMO most HGV drivers are a damn sight more appreciative than car drivers some of whom don't even know they've been done a favour.
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Oh do try and keep up....
>>so if you have a complaint about junctions etc being blocked Mark (RLBS) take it up with the Government
I didn't mention junctions. I think you're getting confused.
>>you claim to hold an HGV1 licence
Held.
>>but are too idiotic to realise the swing of the trailer would cross the path???
You're struggling with this, aren't you. I made no comment about how it might or might not swing. The question was who I would blame if in swinging it killed a person and crashed a car.
Now, lets all try to read accurately a little harder.
>>Mr Car Driver does not slow down to allow the truck to pull out
Then the car driver would be inconsiderate. DO you consider that justification ?
>>remember without trucks there would be no cars blah blah blah.
Yes I work as well. You do your job on wheels and somehow feel that therfore you keep the country running. More than the car driver on his way to the factory to make your truck ? More than the car driver on his way to the refinery to help produce the fuel ? Or is that different ?
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Oh grow up.
I didn't suggest that you cut onto the pavement. I suggested that you wait for a gap before performing such manouvers, and give way to the vehicles in the adjacent lane. They after all, are already in that lane and hence have right of way when it comes to using it.
You as truck drivers are ultimately responsible for your vehicle, which is why there's no-one to blame but yourself when something like what you described happens (pedestrian gets killed, side of car get smashed). Also the reason I hate those 'If you can't see my mirrors...' signs. It is your responsibility to be aware of other road users and manouvere safely. It is not anyone else's responsibility to make themselves easy to see.
Of course I understand the room a '60ft outfit' needs (just say truck). I spend enough time on the roads everyday to work it out. My point is that should you wish to occupy more than one lane at once then you should give way to other vehicles, since you're the one causing the problem - not them. YOU HAVE TO GIVE WAY!!!
No thanks mate, I'll just stick to posting here. Why would I want to go and post on a truckers forum - hardly likely to find much common ground, am I?
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Wait for what gap???? Unless we actually create the gap in the first their would not be one there.
If we cant see you in our mirrors then how are we supposed to be aware of you?? My ultimate responsibility is for safety, that includes positioning myself on the road to ensure MY safety and that of OTHER road users who may not be aware of the room needed.
"Of course I understand the room a '60ft outfit' needs (just say truck). I spend enough time on the roads everyday to work it out. My point is that should you wish to occupy more than one lane at once then you should give way to other vehicles, since you're the one causing the problem - not them. YOU HAVE TO GIVE WAY!!!"
The above comment has to rate in the all time hall of fame for the most idiotic, moronic & selfish comments ever made by a pea brained car driver.
If we don't drive defensivly into many situations then you as car drivers would get squashed. I bet that you are one of the car drivers who scream up from nowhere expecting us to have eyes in the back of our heads, then moan when an accident happens. Get a life you self absorbed pink fluffy dice. It's people like you who end up being a statistic with a nice headstone. RIP, cos thats where your style of driving is taking you.
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Bit harsh isn't it?
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Adam
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Bit harsh isn't it?
More popcorn, anybody?
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Bit harsh isn't it? -- Adam
Not in the slightest, If you see the amount of accidents that are caused by that style of driving then you would not think so. People treat being able to drive as a right, when it is a privalige. You are not indestructable in a car and it is us who are first on the scene and have to look through all your blood and gore to see if you are still alive. Then some poor PC has to go knock on your wife/girlfriend/mothers door to tell them you are a has been. And all because you were desperate to get in front of that truck at the next roundabout. Hardly worth the risk is it!! Even Truckdrivers are human!!!!!
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Thommo might also want to get his GPS checked, as he was obviously on the A43 and not the A45, I would also like to know where he gets 8 miles from. There is not a part of that road that is 8 miles without a roundabout, I think the furthest you can get between roundabouts is about 6 miles.
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I agree with that Truckersunite - I was referring to the last two lines of your previous post.
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Adam
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I agree with that Truckersunite - I was referring to the last two lines of your previous post. -- Adam
You sometimes have to spell things out in plain and simple ways.
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I thought it might be intersting to see what the Highway Code has to say about large or long vehicles. Interestingly, it's all about warning other vehicles to keep clear of them.
In fact, I couldn't find anything telling drivers of large or long vehicles to take care of anyone else. It all seems to be about advising the rest of us to stay out of their way, which is good defensive practice, but I'd have expected it to be balanced by specific advice to HGV drivers.
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#163
163. In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
[snip]
* long vehicles (including those towing trailers) which might have to take a different course approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals.
Similar advice for cyclists, at www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.shtml#63
63. Give plenty of room to long vehicles on the roundabout as they need more space to manoeuvre. Do not ride in the space they need to get round the roundabout. It may be safer to wait until they have cleared the roundabout.
and www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml#146
146 Take extra care at junctions. You should
[snip]
* watch out for long vehicles which may be turning at a junction ahead; they may have to use the whole width of the road to make the turn (see Rule 196)
and www.highwaycode.gov.uk/20.shtml#196
196 Large vehicles. These may need extra road space to turn or to deal with a hazard that you are not able to see. If you are following a large vehicle, such as a bus or articulated lorry, be prepared to stop and wait if it needs room or time to turn.
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I apologise it was of course the A43, however as to the 8 mile bit.
Off M4. Roundabout on top. Next roundabout then clear for a few miles past the airforce base then roundabout then about 1 mile roundabout drop down hill towards Brackley, roundabout for the bypass, roundabout, roundabout the other side of Brackley and then clear to Towcester where the first roundabout is next to the Travelodge/petrol station, never measured that stretch in its entirety but would say its about 10/11 miles.
I saw what I saw and I measured it on the GPS and I'd appreciate it if you apologise for calling me a liar.
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Thommo, I would be the first to apologise IF I had called you a liar, However, Just because your information was not correct does not make you a liar. I also stand by my statement that their is no bit along that road that is 8 miles long without a break for a roundabout. I have travelled that stretch more times then I care to remember, and although it feels 10 or 11 miles I can assure it is not. I have also just measured the longest stretch on Autoroute and it comes back as far less then 8 miles.
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Thommo, I would be the first to apologise IF I had called you a liar, However, Just because your information was not correct does not make you a liar. I also stand by my statement that their is no bit along that road that is 8 miles long without a break for a roundabout. I have travelled that stretch more times then I care to remember, and although it feels 10 or 11 miles I can assure it is not. I have also just measured the longest stretch on Autoroute and it comes back as far less then 8 miles.
Thommo is talking of the section rebuilt at huge expense to us local taxpayers in order to keep B Ecclestone Esq on board. From the roundbout at NE edge of Brackley to that SW of Towcester (McDonalds, BP Garage and Travelodge) is 12 miles per the point to point distances on my OS road atlas. The three junctions in between are grade separated and don't affect through traffic on the A43.
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Correction 12 miles is from the A422 S of Brackley to the A5 at Towcester, but well over two thirds is in the section with flying junctions.
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Strange, as I have that recorded from Ordnance Survey maps (following the road) as 9 miles. Not sure where you get your 12 miles from?!
Either way one of them should have at least have pulled back in, and they should only have been doing 50mph for the dual carriageway. Unless they were foreign registered trucks, in which case they'd trigger speed cameras just to get to be delivered, as they, at the moment, don't have any tickets attributed to them...
Look on the brightside. At least you didn't get any speeding tickets :)
Perhaps it wouldn't be wise for me to therefore mention in a few years ALL goods vehicles are going to be limited to 56 or 60mph... Which will probably mean costs will go up, coupled with the national driver shortage, the increasing pressure to get to a delivery/collection on time, the new "Working Time Directive" that have reduced drivers hours from 60 odd hours a week to 48 (as while a driver can only do 9/10 hours a day driving, loading/unloading time is still extra so they can do a 15 hour shift per day for example!). Not forgetting all the speed cameras that like to hide around the next corner and the car drivers that think that as their car can stop with the help of ABS in a couple of feet the fully loaded 44 ton articulated lorry behind him can as well.
On the subject of insurance and the like, a typical truck can cost £25,000 to insure... Drivers have to put up with parking in laybys, industrial estates, motorway service areas that are a disgrace, that are noisy, and plainly unsuitable. Go to France and it is completely different attitude to drivers over there.
And while I'm on rant mode, whats the deal with the outside and middle lane? There might not be anything around for miles and you'll sit in the OS or Middle lane for miles?! Didn't you know? That's an "Overtaking" lane :)
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OK; first of all I DO know what I am talking about as I am a driving instructor (all licence cat's except tracked vehicles). I have done courses in Road Safety (Officer), Accident Investigation, Transport Management to name a few. I am a PROFESSIONAL of the transport industry, not just an occaisional road user.
I do not condone the actions of the two vehicles mentioned in the original post, indeed I find those individuals to be a bit of an embarrassment.
What is probably more disturbing still, is some of the replies here by a couple of posters. Some of the uninformed and obviously untrained drivers (in this case, cat B i.e. car) is not suprising but nor is acceptable in any way shape or form. What this thread has shown is those that say car drivers should recieve more training than at present are totally correct.
One of the first things I point out to cat B (car) students when they start driver training is that the purpose of 'car lessons' is to get the student to the standard required to pass the test. This is totally different to being a 'good driver'; that should come from further and regular (every 5 years?) refresher training. This is something that our country's professional (HGV) drivers often have to do.
Most companies now have a system of continuation training for their drivers, carry out assessments before employing some one (one of my previous jobs) and generally care about the image their vehicles portray about the company, irrespective of the underlying reasons. How many car drivers have a even fraction of this amount of further training? How many car drivers last drove 'properly' on the day of their test, however long ago it was?
I'm happy to see posts from some sensible, better (road) experienced drivers from all licence cat's. As has been pointed out, if you have access to a computer then you have access to a wide range of further information on the www. Who has ever been back to the Highway Code to check for updates since they did their test??
Mark (RLBS), your comments don't deserve a reply, needless to say irrespective of licence cat held, you need to take a long look at your attitude to road use and give serious consideration to some further training. I don't expect you will agree or do anything about it but nor will I be suprised when you become another statistic that an accident investigator has to deal with.
GrahamF1, I think you are a lost cause. You would definately benefit from giving some realistic thought to vehicle sizes, road positioning, et al.
I am a regular on the TruckNetUK forum as 99% of members ARE professional drivers. Take a look at the thread regarding this site/post and you will see that no one is really condoning the two drivers mentioned because we know it is wrong!
Think carefully about what HGV's (and their drivers) do on a daily basis; you wouldn't survive in your daily life as you know it without them. Talk about Rail Freight when it is a realistic option and you are prepared to accept the inevitable price increases in your local supermarket. In the meantime, there is a general election looming; use your vote wisely whilst bearing in mind this whole post and the underlying cause/problems.
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>>Mark (RLBS), your comments don't deserve a reply, needless to say irrespective of licence cat held, you need to take a long look at your attitude to road use and give serious consideration to some further training. I don't expect you will agree or do anything about it but nor will I be suprised when you become another statistic that an accident investigator has to deal with.<<
That was a rather silly thing to do.
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Adam
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>>Mark (RLBS), your comments don't deserve a reply, needless to say irrespective of licence cat held, you need to take a long look at your attitude to road use and give serious consideration to some further training. I don't expect you will agree or do anything about it but nor will I be suprised when you become another statistic that an accident investigator has to deal with.<< That was a rather silly thing to do. -- Adam
Adam,
If you mean that my comment was rather silly, then i'm sorry to say that it appears to be a distinct possibility in this case. I base my comments on words that Mark (RLBS) himself has written earlier in this thread.
Believe me when I say that I take no pleasure from stating facts; an irresponsible attitude towards road use/safety is often the pre-cursor to an accident investigator being called upon to do his job.
I refer to >> >> I was in the blue Landcruiser, that didn't go very well, did it ! 8-)
and
>> get a few more of these inconsiderate idiots off the road
I'd suggest there's a conflict of interests here i.e 'pot kettle black'??
Regards,
marcustandy,
www.trucknetuk.com
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>Mark (RLBS), your comments don't deserve a reply
But out of the goodness of your heart you'll give me one anyway. How nice.
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Get a life you self absorbed pink fluffy dice.
Truckersunite,
By all means have a debate and discussion, but save the personal insults (and swearing - of which I've taken the liberty of editing) for the truckers forum.
DD. BR Moderator.
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[quote]I hate those 'If you can't see my mirrors...' signs. It is your responsibility to be aware of other road users and manouvere safely. It is not anyone else's responsibility to make themselves easy to see.[/quote]
Has it occurred to you why companies find it neccessary to place the signs on the back of vehicles?
If the motorist following behind is too close to the truck they are completely out of sight of the truck driver, it appears that your yet another motorist in need of a Truck Awareness Course [sigh]
No doubt you will be one of the fantastic car drivers who believe in driving as close as possible to the rear of the truck, diving out to overtake at the first chance unexpectedly then cutting back in front of the truck using the 150 ft stopping distance the truck driver has left for safety reasons, therefore putting yourself at further risk of being hit up the rear end if the car in front has to stop suddenly, ohh but of course I'm forgetting, your a car driver who was fully aware of your actions and the truck driver should of had a sixth sense to know that A) you were sitting 8 inches from his rear bumper out of sight B) you were going to appear from knowhere and spitefully reduce his stopping distance, probably on some blind corner if past experiences are to go by, and C) read the drivers mind ahead to obtain the knowledge something was going to cause him to stop and cause more problems because you've just cut his 150ft stopping distance down to 50ft.
It's a sad fact but one of the reasons signs are put on the back of trucks is simply to try and point out dangers to the likes of yourself, of course you'll hate them, they are showing you for the idiot you will be.
As I've already said, and I think most truck drivers have agreed, the 2 drivers taking 8 miles to pass were pratts which does damage the industry professionals, but what about the idiots in cars who damage the average motorists image, now if we are talking about problems with trucks, bring it on, lets see just how much the average motorist knows or understands when it comes to truck driving.
Car drivers are not legally limited to 4 1\2 hrs driving then legally required to take a 45 minute rest, car drivers are not legally limited to 9 hrs per day driving (Which they can extend to 10 hrs twice a week after a second 45 minute break)Car drivers are not limited to 40 mph 50 mph and 56 mph on the single carriageways. dual carriageways and motorways accordingly.
Car drivers are not required to take 11 hrs rest per day (Which may be reduced to 9 hrs 3 times per week with 2 hrs compensation to repay after each reduction by adding it to another rest period) Nor are Car drivers required to take a weekly rest period of 45 hrs per week after no more than 6 consecutive days.
Now you look at those regulations and you may JUST start to realise the problems truck drivers face trying to carry out deliveries, and they exclude the delays caused by roadworks, traffic jams, rush hour traffic and sheer congestion, along with delays at delivery points, and of course the average car driver thinks that the truck driver is out to cause him grief, believe me, the truck driver does not have the time to wasteon the average motorist, hence the reason the so called knights of the roads tend to drive past the old man / woman / young girl stuck on the hard shoulder with a flat tyre, unlike the olden days.
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truckjockey.
Good to hear it from your viewpoint.
The only thing that does not match what I see is..
>>
.....cutting back in front of the truck using the150 ft stopping distance the truck driver has left for safety reasons..
Frequently I do not see this 150 ft between trucks or trucks and other vehicles being observed.
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truckjockey. Good to hear it from your viewpoint. The only thing that does not match what I see is.. >> .....cutting back in front of the truck using the >> 150 ft stopping distance the truck driver has left for safety reasons.. Frequently I do not see this 150 ft between trucks or trucks and other vehicles being observed.
Thats because someone has already taken it. lol
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Thats because someone has already taken it. lol
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I am referring to the many times I have been a motorway with a rear view mirror showing a close up of a truck grill.
Who took the 150ft away?
Not very clever of the big boys especially when you are driving a low powered vehicle.
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I thank Mr. B for his comment, I have no idea what 'grade seperated' means but there is an unbroken section of dual carriage way as he says 12 miles long. If this guy drives it 'all the time' I would expect him to know this. It doesn't 'feel' 12 miles long, it is 12 miles long.
As this thread is decending in to personal abuse I will leave it there.
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Grade separated junctions = the motorway type with flyover/under and slip roads.
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Probably the car driver playing with his CD / Radio / Cassette not concentrating on the road ahead and letting his vehicle slow down without realising what he's doing ;-) Remember, Cars can travel at 70 MPH on Motorways, trucks are governed to 56 MPH so you cannot be serious if your saying a Truck was right up your rear bumper [shock] What the hell are you playing at travelling at such a slow speed on a Motorway, should you not be on an A Road out of dangers way?????? No wonder there are accidents if your sitting at 50 mph and I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if your the one in the middle lane doing that speed.
As for Mark
Please do tell us what stupidity you did to the truck on the M40 to cause you to brag about it earlier, along of course with telling us how many innocent lives you risked at the same time.
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Remember, Cars can travel at 70 MPH on Motorways, trucks are governed to 56 MPH so you cannot be serious if your saying a Truck was right up your rear bumper [shock] What the hell are you playing at travelling at such a slow speed on a Motorway, should you not be on an A Road out of dangers way?????? No wonder there are accidents if your sitting at 50 mph and I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if your the one in the middle lane doing that speed.
With that attitude to fellow road users you have just confirmed to me what a bad attitude some truck drivers have.
Perhaps you are not aware that all trucks do not keep to 56mph in spite of speed limiters and do not give me the old guff about car speedos being inaccurate.
I am so so serious when I say on many occasions a truck was trying to mate with my rear.
I of course have every right to travel at 50 mph on the safest roads and YOU have a lane to overtake me. I suspect you might use your bulk to find a way into the traffic flow in lane two!
I will however still be "polite" and use the the "unapproved code" of headlamp flashing when your load is clear when overtaking.
Apart from the ruts in lane one I am happy to have the hard shoulder as an extra escape route so I am not a middle lane hogger.
So keep off my rear and perhaps you should try the alternate A road.
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I don't know, i have sometimes seen some damn silly driving from the odd trucker, but the grills i see more often by far 1) white van, 2) wannabe racer 3)when i am in the fiesta (saxo's and other small "boy/girl races" and when in the jag (the rep brigade). On a 25 mile stretch of the M25 yesterday, i saw far more idiotic driving from other cars and vans rather than truckers, who seem to be (on the whole) the only vehicles that indicate when changing lanes.
OK you get the occasional show of machoism, where one trucker won't let the vehicle overtaking go, but the same happens to all of us (i was overtaking a "girl racer" who was going at 68 on a dual carriage way in cambridge on saturday i was doing 70, she took it as a challenge and accelerated in such a way as to stick in my blind spot. I was left with a choice
a) a braking manouver at now approaching 75 to pull in behind her again and risk a major accident with a car behind me, or b) continue to try and accelerate to pull in infront of her. I i chose option b) and ended up having to hit 95 to get past the cretin (something i HATE doing). Same sort of scinario as the lorrys but without a limiter set aat 56/57mph. Cut other drivers some slack, we all make mistakes, we are all guilty of the mine's bigger than yours, and regardless of the training we have or have not, we do forget the ramifications of our actions for that spilt second.
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Referring back to the original post, on long stretches of the 2-lane motorways in Denmark (& some other countries?) trucks are now banned from the outside lane for 12 hours/day, because of the congestion they cause for thousands of other motorists when they try to overtake each other. And Denmark's motorways are a lot less crowded than the UK's..!
So Cars 1 Trucks 0 in Denmark.
Maybe this reg. might be introduced to the UK one day? Then again, our government is so anti-car I guess we're more likely to see more of our outside lanes converted to bus or cycle lanes...
Cars & trucks will have to co-exist on less and less road space. Anyway, we all know that the real menace are caravans :-)
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Cars & trucks will have to co-exist on less and less road space. Anyway, we all know that the real menace are caravans :-)
I will have to agree with that comment.
As for the 150ft and seeing a truck grill fill your mirror all I can say is that it would not be me driving it. Like all industry's there are some rogues, just a 60ft artic is a bit more visible!!!
You also have to remember we are all limited to 56mph, now that is a physical restriction, the trucks cannot go over 56mph and many are now able to only do 53mph(fuel economy) so sometimes we only have 3mph to overtake with, once you take into account tyre wear etc then in real terms this might only be 1mph difference. Over a long day (10 hrs Driving) this overtaking can be the difference between making it home that night to see our loved ones or having to spend another night out parked up in a layby.
So give us a thought, whislt I do not condone the 2 trucks this thread relates to (I would have backed off if I had been one of them) we are doing a job and trying to do it as safely and effeciently as possible.
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I am generaly knowledgable abiout living with trucks on our roads. I sometimes block off your l/h side behind so some burk dont come cruisin up your inside and get flattened as you turn, I am the one who holds up traffic behind me so you can get your truck out on the oposite side of the main road as it has to. I am the one in the middle lane who gives you a nice early flash of the lights so you can pull out and overtake a slower lorry, I am the one who gives you a flash when your trailor is clear so you can pull in in front of me. I am the one who knows that If I cant see you in the mirrors you cant see me.
The pity is that over 50% of you are the ones who:
Take up both lanes of the A14 doing some overtake that you both know wont work for miles. What do you do have a chat through the side windows?
Drive so close up my bumper in the middle lane that all i can see there is the axle. I know you can see over me but you cant stop
Pull out into lane two so suddenly on the M25 that I have to brake so hard the ABS kicks in on a dry road. Then have the check to put the indicator on.
That is why trucker my son, most of us other road users now think you are Pigs and Bullies.
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That is possibly the biggest load of garbage I have ever read.
All hail to thee great truck drivers!
Let's face it guys, it's not the hardest job in the world so don't try to make it sound like you're a bunch of Super Heroes doing us all a favour!
Most of us mere car drivers understand that you have a job that is not the easiest on the planet and that most of you are just trying to earn a crust but PLEASE don't play the martyrs. Many of us also have tiring jobs and we may not be driving big heavy vehicles but does that mean you should bully us.
About time we all started appreciating that the roads are a scarce resource that we all have to share and help each other by keeping out of each others' way as much as possible.
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Tyre Tread; If you are tired driving then take a break. Or perhaps the train and leave the road clear for essential road haulage... ;)
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Personally, I would just add the following. Impatience, intolerance and ignorance. From all parties. And yes, I am a lorry driver.
How many of these do people see on the road every day. Before anyone starts spouting, they want to question how other vehicles react, how other road users react and, most importantly, how they would reat to what they're about to do.
Cheers
Ian.
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here here RF
perfectly put.
I know that the speed limiter puts different pressures on HGV drivers etc, but when two HGVs are going downhill they are presumably going at full tilt as best they can and can also pick up speed easily. So why doesn;t the one who is being overtaken simply let off the gas a little and let the faster one get by more quickly.. He can always pick up speed later as he continus going downhill.
I've driven really slow diesel cars with almost no torque at motorway speeds and you have to plan your driving much more carefully to avoid being caught out in the wrong lane and the wrong speed. If I can do it, so can professional HGV Drivers.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Oh dear. From a post that castigated (rightly) 2 prattish truck drivers, the discussion has descended to castigating all truck drivers and all car drivers (and I think caravans snook in somewhere too). Let's be honest and admit that there are pratts of both (or all three kinds) but also remember that in, say, a drive from London to Leeds on the M1 that you will pass/be passed by hundreds, perhaps thousands of trucks and cars. Of those, one or two, or three or four will be "pratts" but the vast majority will be driving safely and considerately. Let's all be a bit more patient, forgiving and considerate (and less inclined to "take revenge against") towards our fellow motorists - the roads might be a safer and less stressful place to be. (Except for that prat in the middle lane in a Mondeo at 1am this morning in Nottinghamshire doing 60 mph who I had to go from inside lane to outside lane to overtake on a deserted motorway!)
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Finally, did any of you truck drivers manage to read this ?
>>And if you're a truck driver and feel that you are not an idiot, then this clearly doesn't apply to you. On the other hand, if you feel you've just been insulted, then you probably have been.
Clearly you felt that my comments applied to you. Says it all, really.
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And that brings a humorous end to this debacle.
Satisfied, I can now retire to bed.
Well Done Mark.
:-)
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Adam
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Their seems to be plenty from all concerned, but check your attitude when out on the road. You might learn something people.
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Tyre Tread,
No one says we have the hardest job in the world, However, We generally have to concerntrate for far longer periods then the average car driver. 4.5 hours is a long time at 56mph,and you do get very tired, driving a car is alot less stressful. I used to do 70k miles a year as a rep, yet driving the same distance in a truck tires me out alot more.
We are not trying to be martyr's, just trying to explain that our job is really quite stressful. And a recent study found out that if there were a national drivers strike then the country would run out of food within 4 days!!!!!! So without us working 60+ hours a week then you would not be able to eat!!!!
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a recent study found out that if there were a national drivers strike then the country would run out of food within 4 days!!!!!! So without us working 60+ hours a week then you would not be able to eat!!!!
That's because of the way that the food industry has chosen to centralise production and distribution. It doesn't have to be arranged that way, and in the past it wasn't.
The main reason for this centralisation is make it easier to manage the huge businesses which now control food production and distribution. Given time, it wouldn't be that hard to arrange things differently so that we didn't have trucks carrying food back and forth along the same road.
For now, businesses have chosen to structure their operations around the availability of subsidised haulage ... but that's no reason for the rest of us to have to put up with inconsiderate driving.
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That's because of the way that the food industry has chosen to centralise production and distribution. It doesn't have to be arranged that way, and in the past it wasn't.
I don't disagree with what you are saying here, Ask alot of drivers and you will find many have spent far too much time at supermarket RDC's (regional distribution centers), not only that but many of us have done pointless miles. I once had to drive an artic with the freezer going full blast from Reading to Nottingham on a bankholiday monday to deliver ONE 2kg bag of frozen chips to a beefeater, there was a supermarket right next door. And then drive back empty, 250ltr of diesel used and my wage at double time, has to rate as one of the most expensive bag of chips in history.
The thing is, most of us trucky's can see this wastage but are not allowed to do anything about it. The likes of TESCO (who I refuse to shop at because of their wastefullness), Sainsburys etc hold all the cards and call the shots. There are alot of wasted miles due to those types of companies.
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Well truckersunite, you didn't get personal or insulting now did you??!!!
I shouldn't think it's particularly likely I'll end up crushed by a lorry as you suggest.
I don't tailgate them, I don't sit in front of them, I don't sneak up their inside, outside, or anywhere else.
I stay as far away from them as possible. Mainly because they show an alarming tendency to tailgate, stray out of their lanes and generally cause problems. Usually because the man at the wheel is on his phone, fiddling with his stereo, or eating pies.
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as per my previous post
>>If we cant see you in our mirrors then how are we supposed to be aware of you?? My ultimate responsibility is for safety, that includes positioning myself on the road to ensure MY safety and that of OTHER road users who may not be aware of the room needed.
If as you say you give all trucks a wide birth then they will not need to drive defensivly around you, and the issues that you highlight will not happen as you will not be there, in which case you are talking hypothetically are you not?
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>>most of us trucky's
Aside from the moment of madness with the apostrophe, do you lot actually call yourself "truckys" ??
Oh dear. You've got those little blue lights on your wipers as well, haven't you.
Well, hello to all you "truckys" from us car-ies and bike-ies, and probably from a few bicycle-ies as well.
[sigh] the days of the rufty-tufty yorkie eater are obviously long gone. I can only imagine the Rubber Duck turning in his grave.
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LOL!
This is hilarious. Don't forget the odd walkie on here Mark.
Carry on.
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Adam
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What about people on horses?
Ridies?
Farmers in tractors?
... OK, I don't know what you'd call them.
Giles-ies maybe.
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Sorry - I'm dying to say it.
Tractors would be trac(k)ies surely?
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Adam
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well, following the same logic they would be "horseys" and "tractorys".
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I was trying not to insult though. I think calling someone 'horsey' might lead them to think you were calling attention to their facial structure ;)
Anyway, if we're sticking to that religiously, Adski is wrong about 'walkies', they should be referred to as 'footies'.
Erm... merging should be done at or around the lane closure point.
Phew... think I saved that.
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But then of course a car would surely be a wheel...ie?
Let's stop now because I sure as hell won't be able to save it as well as you did BB!
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Adam
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I think he meant "Trekkies"!
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I can only imagine the Rubber Duck turning in his grave.
Thank you Mark! I was hoping someone would manage a McCall reference at some point
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I do apologise gents, but Professional Driver takes too long to write each time, hence the use of Trucky!!!! and surly a cyclist would be called a Biccie would they not!!!
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surly a cyclist would be called a Biccie would they not!!!
Even a happy cyclist would probably object to being called a Biccie!! (And the surly ones even more so !!!!!!!)
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As far as i'm aware, 'Rubber Duck' (or at least Kris Kristofferson) is still alive and well.
Like the advert said, "Aren't we all just trying to get some place?"
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hometown.aol.co.uk/SMCAUL/Chat+Room.mp3
I have no idea if the above link will work in this forum, I have copied from the Trucknetuk site (With the autors permission)but it is quite a funny remake of the classic.
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I am a lorry driver, I only drive a 7.5 tonner ( one of the ones that are still at present allowed in the outside lane on 3 lane motorways and do 70mph on motorways ). I haven't always driven a lorry it's my second career.
Most of the comments on this thread ( from both sides ) show very clearly why piloting any kind of vehicle on UK roads has become so stressful.
Everyone on the roads ( well everyone except, apparently, about 40% of the people who live in Sheffield ( Cops BBC1 )) pay road tax and are entitled to use the roads without let or hinderance. If everyone took a little more care and actually considered how their actions would affect other road users we would all be better off.
I agree that the 2 trucks in the original post were totally out of order, I cannot understand why the truckdriver that is being overtaken cannot just lift his foot for a second, that would be enough for the other to get past fairly quickly.
I do agree with some of the comments re awareness of car drivers whilst in the vicinity of LGVs and in fact the inclusion on this post from the highway code would be a revelation to most car drivers if they actually took the time to read it.
Peace and tranquility people, we should as someone has already mentioned be on the same side agitating for better roads after all we pay enough for them.
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Some aliens turned up and beamed up some notes that they thought were getting overly silly. So sorry, I have asked them not to do it again.
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Don't apologise. They did us a favour.
Thanks.
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Adam
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