On the M62 today when I saw a Porsche 928 S4. Looked very nice and I reckon that if it were released now it would still look modern. I also think the same about the 1988 Audi 80.
Anything else built between 1975 and 1995 that could be new releases in 2005?
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Citroen BX16 Valve with the "duck tail" rear wing instead of the "hoop"shaped one.
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Citroen BX16 Valve with the "duck tail" rear wing instead of the "hoop"shaped one.
I don't think that anything with wings ages well ... but my nominations would both be French. Citroen CX still looks fresh and contemporary after 30 years, and 20 years on the second-generation Renault 5 is still a benchmark for minimalist design.
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Mazda MX5
Lotus Esprit
Toyota MR2
Probably most of those that are dateless would be sports cars, which are devoid of things like prominant radiator grills which can become very dated looking in time.
Even the original Elan would look fresh today, with it's simplistic design.
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Mazda MX5
Yes that's correct, cue the new one launched later this year. A very simular looking car to the old one. Very evolutionary.
My choices.. Ford Puma although that may have come after '95 and a 1982 Ford Sierra Ghia. In design terms years ahead of its time.
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BMW 5 series and possibly the 7. Oooh and the Mini (Not MINI) and of course the Land Rover Defender.
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I've always liked the look of the Rover SD1. With a bit of a tweek that could look modern and up to date.
Some more classic shapes that could form the basis of a newer retro car...
Moggy minor - well look what they did to the beetle
Morris Oxford/Austin Cambridge - I've always liked that shape!
H
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Morris Oxford/Austin Cambridge - I've always liked that shape!
Me too! didn't they copy that shape from Peugeot? or was it the other way round?
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Ford Ka could go on forever and not date.
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Hugo,
Hope no-one from the phoenix consortium is reading this - it may give them ideas on how to empty that giant warehouse in Longbridge.
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Oxford/cambridge? Oh Per-lease! you still using brylcream and wearing nylon shirts?
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1967-9 Ford Mustang Fastback GT. The ultimate knicker-dropper (ask me how).
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LOL It's the way the static electricity has something to do with how they they slide over the naugahyde seats before planting a kiss on the driver, and the sound of that rumbling V-8 and the way it rocks the car when it's idling and the 8-track playing Beach Boys Greatest Hits. It's kind of a woman thing....don't really understand it myself personally but it seems to do the business...
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Oxford/cambridge? Oh Per-lease! you still using brylcream and wearing nylon shirts?
>>
A subject strangely close to my heart, for some reason - so less of it!
The Oxford/Cambridge was styled by Farina in Italy, and a majestic looking old cove it was too. A pity that the rolling acres of bonnet hid nothing more than a wheezy, if rather robust, 1622cc.
But you can't deny it has a certain something, rather like the Rover P5 and my favourite, the 1970s Aston Martin V8. Quite like the Jensen Interceptor, too.
For those guessing, my father bought one of the last to roll off the line and I ended up learning to drive in the old ship after it had been passed around the family. A driving test in a car with no power steering and no syncromesh on first; what fun...
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Peugeot and BMC used Pininfarina. Peugeot obviously paid good money for the design and BMC paid as well (but 3s and 6d) and got the same design but tweaked.
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Peugeot and BMC used Pininfarina. Peugeot obviously paid good money for the design and BMC paid as well (but 3s and 6d) and got the same design but tweaked.
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I knew it was something like that. Thanks PU
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mk 1 vw gti?
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HCM
Pug 205 GTi love it!
Pug 306 - My dad has the GTi6 and likes it alot! At 76 he still uses all 6 gears and regularly confesses to creeping over the limit! He says it reminds him of a woman - it has a waist!
Next time have a good look at one - you'll see what I mean! (the narrowest part of the car is just before the rear wheels)
RF - you like Renaults - need I say more, I've said too much already ;)
H - Nissan van driving dude!
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Indeed H, Renault driver. Taste and panache.
Nissan? you are in denial Hugo ;)
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But isn't the Nissan a Renault in disguise ?
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RF as I have said before I cannot fault the Renault Trafic it's just a shame they produced cars as well, and besides that Nissan badge actually makes it bearable to be seen in it ;)
PU, you're right of course, but I can't have RF thinking that I'm another fan of Renaults, I'll never get rid of him!
H
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I definitely think the Ford Ka's shape cant be dated i mean its 9 years old now & it still looks fresh after all this time especialy in colour coded trim!!
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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It was very brave of Ford to flog it when they did. Apparantly the new style Ka can be easily mistaken for a.n.other tin box - shame.
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I havnt seen the new shape yet so it will be interesting!
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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I've only seen an "exclusive computer generated spy shot" in a well known weekly rag.
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I've long had a soft spot for the 1992 - 1996 Mazda 626. Pictures of one here: www.auto-willbold.de/ gebrau23.html
I think it was the original of that sort of shape. Later copied (I think) by Toyota Corolla, Ford Mondeo, Renault Laguna.
Looks good from every angle. The 2.5 V6 is quite quick too. I never had one, but did have a Eunos 800/Mazda Millennia/Xedos 9, which wasn't quite as attractive, but more modern.
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Morris 1000, any Aston, TR6, Lotus Elan mk1 - That dated so little that it was copied by those American guys for the MX5 ansd is still as fresh today.
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I've long had a soft spot for the 1992 - 1996 Mazda 626. looks good from every angle.
looks very bland from every angle to me.....
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Nissan? you are in denial Hugo ;)
Surely he's actually in a fake Japanese van? ;-)
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As you say, Hugo, any 205 (not just the GTi) - a very neat, elegant, functional and appealing shape which grew into the 306 with marginal loss of character. Flashy 206 started the loss of plot at Peugeot which seems to continue, presumably in an attempt to sustain bulk sales.
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mk 1 vw gti?
You can now gat a brand new one if you like.
www.beetles-uk.com/index.shtml
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PUG 205 Gti? Course I'm a tad bit biased ;)
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Renault Espace - a practical but graceful shape which fortunately hasn't been too badly mucked about by their current stylist, Le Sueur or whatever his name is, who has clearly never tried to drive any of his designs in reverse.
Ours was new in 1988 - five years and 120,000 miles with no major failures. In those days there were few of them around, and we used to flash headlamps at each other. Anyone still have a car rare enough to do this?
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Avant:
Wasn't it the Espace that sold a grand total of 9 in it's first year of production?
Back then that would have made it about as rare as a Pagani Zonda is now!
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Alfetta GTV. Very few around to admire though, as most have rusted into oblivion.
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Yes, I think that was in 1984. They were just starting to become more popular by 1988 as I remember my company couldn't get much of a discount.
In those days there was very little choice if like us you had 4 children. There was the Renault Savanna (we had one of those before the Espace) with 3 rows of forward-facing seats, ditto the Peugeot 505 (good but not a barrel of laughs to drive); nothing suitable from Ford or Vauxhall, and with the Volvo or (Gawd help you) the Montego Countryman the rear seats faced backwards so you could take the kids or the luggage, but not both, inside the car. It had to go on the roof.
To return to the title of this thread, in wind and rain the shape of the luggage would date quite quickly.
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Any views on the 1982 Ford Sierra, Anyone?
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Ah,yes, a very early jelly-mould. Here in New Zealand we only had the estates, which are, IMO, the best looking. At the time they looked very modern and fresh. Now the front, especially the headlight treatment, looks very cheap. I looked at buying one about 1993, but the interior was almost shot, and the car was quite narrow. I ended up with a 1990 Ford Telstar/Mazda 626 estate that was, I think, a better car.
So what about the Jaguar Series III XJ6/XJ12? Is it the best looking XJ ever? Alright, not counting the XJC coupé.
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I always thought that the series 1 XJ was the best looking XJ saloon but the seventies seemed to be a time of cars that either looked great or incredibly ugly.
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"Any views on the 1982 Ford Sierra, Anyone?"
Blimey dont get me started on that. Ok it was brave, always applaud bravery.
It looked odd wrong and dumpy then, and it did tright up to its death. Aerodynamics? dont make me laff it was appaling aero wise and has to have subtle changes wingletts and whiskers all through its life to keep straight.
However, having said that.
I am starting to warm to them. The shape (later ones) is starting to look quite good
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Rf, did you know that the Original Ford sierra was designed by a guy called Uwe Bahnsen who had in his design team a youngster called Patrick Le Quement who is er.. Now Renaults design big chief.
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Fortunately he has now grown up.
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according to phoenix - the entire rover Range hasn?t dated!
how old is the city rover design?
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Triumph Spitfire.
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I always thought the 1960s Lotus Elan was timeless.
The Lancia Flavia.
The Ogle Mini.
The first Audi 100 (flush fitting everything).
MX5 - yes: timeless simplicity
Mark1 Mustang fastback..
The RR Silver Shadow 2 - before they went all splodgy/boxy and horrible.
Mark 3 Ford Fiesta - great looks . pity about the mechanics.
Mark 1 VW Golf GTI 1800 in black with BBS wheels.
Citroen XM: timelessly weird shape.
Citroen DS: timeless wonderful.
Ford Granada - the last one: timeless monument to terrible reare design: Chris Bangle should have learned from it but did not...
madf
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"Any views on the 1982 Ford Sierra, Anyone?" Blimey dont get me started on that. Ok it was brave, always applaud bravery. It looked odd wrong and dumpy then, and it did right up to its death.
Hmm, part of the problem was that the design was mangled by the bean-counters. The flush windows were ditched as an economy measure, and the flush nose/twin headlamps replaced with a hideous grille and single headlamp on all except the top models.
But even so, it was an odd car. Much less interior space than a Peugeot 305, esp in estate form.
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928 is indeed a modern classic.
Citroen Xantia doesn't look too dated either, (early version) still a well proportioned car with good lines.
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As my submission of the Alfetta GTV didn't produce any comment, I will try another. This time the Alfa GT Junior/GTV of the 60s and 70s. I have always wanted one of these cars.
I agree about the Xantia - still love the look of our 1994 1.9 TD. Yet I remember reading a column by a motoring correspondent, back in 1996, in which he remarked that he considered the Xantia to be looking dated.
I can't remember what the official description of the metallic green is but it is a much better colour than the rainforest green, which is available on the C5
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What a great thread! Growler, you make me smile!
Will the new Civic last like the Ka?
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Meant to add that Citroen seem to do well here - see my C6 post - let's hope it looks good in the flesh; car design needs some icons.
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Anything smooth, clean and apparently aerodynamic.
Early Bristols, Saab 95, Jaguar XK120 maybe even a Graber Alvis.
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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Most Jags, most Mercedes models (even 20+ year old examples still cut a dash), the outgoing Ford Focus hatchback, Fiat Coupe and 500, most Alfa Romeos, most Aston Martins and Ferraris and, of course, the female form...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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The Sierra shook design out of it's '60s slumber and has influenced car design ever since. IMO anyway.
I don't think it's dated at all, it just feels old because, well it's been around for 23 years.
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The Sierra shook design out of it's '60s slumber and has influenced car design ever since. IMO anyway. I don't think it's dated at all, it just feels old because, well it's been around for 23 years.
Which particular car design has it influenced?
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Which particular car design has it influenced?
Every car that has transgressed from a 3 part box shape to a primarliy areodynamic design. It was this car that first brought (arguably) aerodynamics into the brief. I did say in my opinion and it sounds like you're unlikely to agree.
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"It was this car that first brought (arguably) aerodynamics into the brief."
So the Citroen DS never happened then?
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"It was this car that first brought (arguably) aerodynamics into the brief." So the Citroen DS never happened then?
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Well said RF. Yet I remember some comment in this forum some time ago, which said that the DS hadn't been major step forward in car design, as it had not had any influence on future design work. Of course the GS and CX could lay claim to perpetuating this theme also and they were way before the Sierra.
There have, of course been other cars with slippery shapes in the past, e.g. Jowett Javelin, but the DS is probably the best example. The NSU Ro80 was relatively boxy, but aerodynamically quite slippery too (drag coefficient 0.360).
So no, I don't agree that the Sierra first brought aerodynamics into the design brief.
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>Every car that has transgressed from a 3 part box shape ..<
That's a new use of the word, Imagos - what transgression had you in mind? :o)
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Which particular car design has it influenced?
Well, IIRC, didn't the Sierra introduce the full-width plastic wheel trim to the world, along with the joys of scuffing them against kerbs and having them fall off at inopportune moments? ;-)
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W123 Merc. All that chrome. Strangely, the Rover 75 reminds me of the W123.
Anything ever built by Jaguar.
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how about the Rover 200/25 - rover seem to think that will last forever!
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"Anything ever built by Jaguar. "
I don't think so.
A 420G?
A Mark 7,8,9 X?
S type modern one?
Nahh overblown barges.
madf
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> "Anything ever built by Jaguar. "
Not quite, but the XJ still has class.
The ultimate dateless shape has to be a toss-up between the E-type roadster (sexiest car ever built) and the AC Cobra. MY vote would go to the E-type. I defy anyone not to do a double-take when they see one, especially a Mk1 1/2 in red.
Kevin...
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Range Rover Classic - Just oozes class and the shape has carried on up to the present Rangie. Lovely.
Also SD1 Vitesse.
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Another 2 for you.
1990-1996 Chevrolet Caprice/Impala. somehow just looks so timeless, so american too.
1959 Cadillac coupe de ville. You could drive this in 100 years and still be cool.
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Ford GT 40. If the original had only rolled out of the factory today, it would still look fresh and up to the minute.
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Ford GT 40. If the original had only rolled out of the factory today, it would still look fresh and up to the minute.
Ford had the same idea, that's why they made this www.cliente.chevroletonline.com.br/app/br/pt/hng/h...f
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Thanks imagos, absolutely stunning. My all time favourite car, lusted after as a schoolboy but only ever owned as a slot car, static model and a radio controlled one built from a kit.
Best looking car ever made, apparantly Clarkson has one on order.
Six numbers, just six flaming numbers...
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There's a fundamental difference between a shape that doesn't date, and public liking for the odd retro model. In the latter case the shape has dated, but public taste has selectively remained unchanged, or regressed.
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What utter tosh. The only thing that decides weather a shape has dated or not *IS* public taste.
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What utter tosh. The only thing that decides weather a shape has dated or not *IS* public taste.
True! True!
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No, I don't think so. The difference is between the odd retro model that picks aspects of an old design, and the whole design itself.
I thought the original question implied, were there any cars that could simply be reissued today, and you wouldn't guess that they were not current models?
It is quite possible to like a dated shape - that doesn't make it undated.
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Nissan .....300ZX ....there , I said it!.
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>public taste. < .. and sadly there's not a lot of it about (and maybe never has been a great deal). An awful lot of marketing is aimed at the lowest common denominator, and makes good profit by doing so.
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As one/two other peeps stated - the ford ka. - going strong since 96 and still looks modern.
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Old ideas can be rehashed successfully with some tweaking and the use of modern technology and materials, and still not look out of place.
If it can be done with the Chrysler PT Cruiser, it can be done with many other old shapes.
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"If it can be done with the Chrysler PT Cruiser"
I thought you said successfully?
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"If it can be done with the Chrysler PT Cruiser" I thought you said successfully?
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Some people like the result. It is not to my taste but what do I know of taste anyway, lol?
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Agree with the NSU Ro80. Big plastic bumpers and larger wheels and it could sit in a showroom tomorrow.
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Agree with the NSU Ro80. Big plastic bumpers and larger wheels and it could sit in a showroom tomorrow.
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Makes you wonder why Audi didn't make use of the design really, as it would have been a winner with a conventional engine. It was certainly better looking than any contemporary Audi design.
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IIRC they only made 37,000 Ro80s. My father owned five of them, all at the same time - don't ask... to do with his business and company cars for other staff and one being caniballised. Great to have one as a company car before company car tax.
I still see one around and I would have one today, over 25 years since we sold our last one, if it has the Rx8 engine. Loads of space inside and in the boot with a great dashboard that was simply across the car with no central console taking up space. It would work well with a automatic transmission with column gearchange.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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my ideal wld be an A4 with hatchback - effectively a larger A3.
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Agree with the NSU Ro80. Big plastic bumpers and larger wheels and it could sit in a showroom tomorrow.
Me too, with the addition of xenon headlights along with the Austin Ambassador.
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I quite liked the princess wedge. (shape and looks that is)
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The Rover 200 has a similar profile to the Alfasud, but this probably means that it looks dated rather than the Alfasud looking modern.
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The Rover 200 has a similar profile to the Alfasud, but this probably means that it looks dated rather than the Alfasud looking modern.
The Seat Leon has a profile even more like an Alfasud. This is a car that has been praised for its looks and I don't recall it being slated for looking dated when it was introduced
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The Seat Leon has a profile even more like an Alfasud. This is a car that has been praised for its looks and I don't recall it being slated for looking dated when it was introduced
No - but every time I see one I imagine a green sun-strip across the top of the windscreen with the words BARRY and SHARON on it!
(PS If Barry and Sharon are reading this then I most humbly apologize)
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green sun-strip across the top of the windscreen with the words BARRY and SHARON on it!
Shouldn't that be BAZ and SHAZ?
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I quite liked the princess wedge. (shape and looks that is)
tinyurl.com/4lve5 ;-)
[ducks and runs away fast with tomngue still firmly in cheek ... ]
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I'm looking out of the office window at an L reg MR2 MKII. Great looking car and design will look just as good in 20 years time.
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Any Mustang pre-1973.
Corvette Stingray.
Studebaker Champion (OK I'm on ther wrong side of 60).
Jayne Mansfield.
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