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I have a W reg Ford focus 1.8 38000 miles a full service history with all receipts, but i cant find any evidenace of cam belt replacement does anybody know at what point i should get this changed or can it be easily checked ?
Edited by Pugugly on 26/05/2009 at 21:24
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Change at 100K according to the Ford manual so you have a few miles left.
I think it was up " or to 10 years"
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Whatever the book says 100,000 and/or 10 years is much, much, much, much too long!!! It is just not worth the risk, 5 years or 50,000 max unles the manufacturer specifies less.
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sorry but I think - for FORDS only - it's OK. They design theirs with lots of working area: and they appear to last.
If you are talking Peugeot/Citroen or GM or other badly designed stuff, then I agree.
madf
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Nothing against Fords, I have one albeit with a cam chain however it is not worth the risk on and car going beyond 5 years or 50,000 max on a cam belt. Had wife's Clio done at 5 years even though it had only done 20k, only cost £200 at a Renault dealer (Renault Minute) inc an oil and filter, this is £40 a year, call it insurance against catastrophic engine failure.
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From
www.ffoc.co.uk
"Ever bought a second hand Focus with plenty of miles on the clock and wondered whether it is in need for a cam belt change.
Never fear, there is an unadvertised policy with Ford for the Focus, including the Fiesta and Mondeo, that the cam belt is fully warranted to 100,000 miles.
If your engine decides to blow due to a cam belt failure or issue, then Ford will cover all the engine repairs/replacement costs up to 100,000 miles.
However, if you have heavily modified your engine there is a high possibility that the policy would not grant such a claim, so an early cam belt replacement should be conducted sooner, to be safe."
So you could always ask the Focus boys or
the Mondeo boys as they use the same engine.
www.fordmondeo.org/
Me - the previous owner changed the belt at 80K which is the recommended value for the older engine.
No plans to change sons V reg 48K Focus belt yet either.
When I have enquired of several main dealer they all immediately said 100K.
Who do you believe? Ford increased the value from 80K on the earlier engines to 100K on the current engines.
Both my user manuals Mondeo and Focus say 100K.
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You pays your money you makes your choice however my view is that it is just not worth the risk going beyond 5 years or 50,000 max on a cam belt.
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I would wager that the mechanics of a French engine are just as good or superior to the Ford engine. The electronics or body might be falling apart, but generally the engineering standard of the engines is very high.
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Just had my 323f cam belt changed at 7 years 45,000 mile, so maybe a bit over recommended on time, 5,000 under on miles.
2 additional factors I took into account -
If I want to sell, then being able to show a receipt for a cam belt is going to be a good thing.
If I keep the car then I probably won't bother changing the cam belt in 7 years when it's 14 years old - if it goes it goes at that age.
So I might as well get some use out of my new Cam belt - If I owned a Ford then I would be changing my cam belt at a point in the cars life when I would get the benefit of knowing I had a new belt rather than hanging on until I had to have it changed at 100,000 on a ten year old car.
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As someone who has had two cam belts fail with no damage to the engine, one on a 405 Peugeot I can say that the Peugeot belt is about half the width and thickness of a Mondeo belt and I changed my Mondeo belt at 50,000miles. In my case the 405 belt failed at 4 years and 43,000 miles! The other one was on a Vauxhall Carlton at 5 years and 30,000 miles!!! Age of the belt is defnitely a factor. Ford seems to have deliberately gone for a better life span for their belts than Peugeot did.
The secret of avoiding disaster appears to be that both engines were two valves per cylinder with vertical or near vertical) valve angles. On a four valve head the chances of pistons and valves hitting when the belt snaps are almost 100% I fear. (This also applies to the old Ford cvh combustion chambered engines too!)
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As I've commented before, my sons friend is a Ford mechanic and he has never seen one ( a Ford cam belt) fail before the specified change interval, at least not on a 1.6 Zetec engine, I'm not 100% sure he meant all derivatives
Reggie
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ref the query about focus timing belts,i work for amain ford dealer and i have never known a focus belt to fail prematuely.In fact we have had instances of vehicles having done up to 120k miles before they had a belt change.
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Why is this? Is it because it is wider, thicker, stronger? What of pulley failure?
Does it also apply to Mark 2 Mondeos?
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Why is this? Is it because it is wider, thicker, stronger? What of pulley failure? Does it also apply to Mark 2 Mondeos?
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100K certainly applies to my 98 Mondeo Ghia.
I assume by Mark 2 you are refering to the current shape.
Some refer to the revised MK 1, with the bigger front lights, as a MK2.
As I understand it, there is an earlier version of the engine in Mondeos often refered to as a silver top (the colour of the cam shaft cover. IIRC these may need a change at 80K.
The later versions have a black top.
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If you look at a Ford belt
It is thicker
wider
the pulleys look substantial
Ford used Fibre timing gears in the mid 1970 3litre V6 Essex engine. A disaster cos they broke.An expensive lesson.
Ford engineering has always been to make bearing surfaces wide and good quality to minimise warranty claims and improve reliability.
Unlike many of their competitors whose engineering aims in engines were aimed at cost reduction first. (see GM timing pulleys, BL engine HGF etc, )
madf
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ref the query about focus timing belts,i work for amain ford dealer and i have never known a focus belt to fail prematuely.In fact we have had instances of vehicles having done up to 120k miles before they had a belt change.
The Technical Advisor at my local Ford dealer said exactly the same, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. Large Ford dealers see thousands of Foci so they should know. The average doubting Thomas has perhaps heard about a friend of a friend who had a cam belt fail at a lesser mileage in a goodness-knows-what car. Or more likely they are just a scare mongering for the hell of it.
--
L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I repeat it is not worth the risk on any car going beyond 5 years or 50,000 max on a cam belt, £200 every 5 years or 50,000 as insurance against catastrophic engine failure, v-good value!
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On the other hand...
Listening to the Back Room advice I had the belt changed on the Mrs's Focus (1.8) last summer @ approx 50k.
Yesterday she ground to a halt on the motorway. preliminary diagnosis is that the cam belt has slipped the adjuster (or the adjuster wasn't tightened or changed or something). The belt isn't snapped, but it will still be expensive.
Not surprisingly, Ford don't want to know as it has a non-standard part and wasn't serviced by them. So it's back to the indie who did it. Feel a little sorry for him as he's a one man band etc, so we will come to an amicable arrangement.
So, reading the post above re the 100k thing, I wish I'd left well alone, and for once ignored the good advice that comes from the Back Room. :-(
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Sorry to hear about your woes Smokie, sounds like the tentioner failed causing the belt to slip. It is true that the need to change the tensioner and, on some cars, the idler rollers at the same time as the cambelt has not been mentioned in this thread. If this had been done when the cambelt was changed it is likely that your wife would not have had the problem, likewise if you had not had the cambelt replaced it is likely that the tensioner would have failed anyway.
As I have said before whatever the manufacturer says it is not worth the risk going beyond 50k on a cambelt though the tensioner and related idlers (they usually come as a kit) should be done at the same time.
Regards.
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failed causing the belt to slip. It is true that the need to change the tensioner and, on some cars, the idler rollers at the same time as the cambelt has not been mentioned in this thread. If this had been done when the cambelt was changed it is likely that your wife would not have had the problem, likewise if you had not had the cambelt replaced it is likely that the tensioner would have failed anyway.
I would say this is guesswork.
As I have said before whatever the manufacturer says it is not worth the risk going beyond 50k on a cambelt though the tensioner and related idlers (they usually come as a kit) should be done at the same time.
I cannot believe all the Ford main dealers I have spoken to, including the biggest in Europe, would be happily STATING 100K and risk the costs, reputation etc of early failures.
I have not seen a vast outcry fom the MEG site.
I along with most, especially those who have checked things out with many sources, will happily keep the pounds in my pocket. and not worry about it.
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I would say this is guesswork.
Yes, a calculated guess.
will happily keep the pounds in my pocket. and not worry about it.
You pays your money you makes your choice.
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Another Ford dealers view of things and not afraid to put it on view and prices.
www.busseys.co.uk/maintenance/cambelts.html
Includes Fiesta, Escort, Puma, Focus. C-Max, Mondeo, Cougar, Galaxy and Fusion info.
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Good on Ford for developing cambelts where they can claim 100 - 150k and up to 10 years life however one objective here is to present low operating costs to fleets. There are enough premature cambelt failures amongst all makes to make the sensible option for private motorists that of changing a belt at no more that 50k / 5 years.
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There are enough premature cambelt failures amongst all makes to make the sensible option for private motorists that of changing a belt at no more that 50k / 5 years.
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I am not aware of such evidence on Mondeos and Focus vehicles.
I see the same suggestions of very early belt changes and the same wrong data suggested elsewhere.
If Ford cambelts were failing as you suggest I feel certain the thousands of Mondeo users who use the Mondeo Forum would be the first to complain. They do not.
Perhaps you could supply some more evidence as I am a long term user of a Mondeo which had a cambelt changed at 80K by the previous owner and I will be changing it at close to 180K.
My friends in the motor trade have not seen these failures.
I view early cambelt changes on Fords in the same vein as a de-coke, needed it the old days but no longer.
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Hello.
Iam not normally against other people but on this topic of conversation Cheddar is wrong.
Sorry Cheddar
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(iam not a mechanic)
Martin Winters
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Update: It WAS the adjuster in the wife's car. It hadn't been changed when the belt was changed. The car is on about 55k, the belt was done at about 45k.
8 bent valves and other collateral damage.
My little man charged me £460 to repair/rebuild it, which I guess is a lot cheaper than a replacement engine. I have yet to speak to him to ensure he has made some allowance on the bill for his earlier omission.
The charge which sticks in my throat is the £160 from the Ford dealer to which the car was towed. This is for "preliminary diagnosis". They sussed the cambelt was the problem, and that it was a non-Ford belt. How long can that take? I will be trying for a reduction in this bill, but don't hold out much hope as it has already been paid (in order to release the car to "my little man").
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