Hi Guys,
My 1.3 Endura Fiesta Encore (mark 4, X reg) has an engine which has got more and more noisy (a kind of ticking noise on acceleration). I remember that once I took it for a service and they said the engine had run dry (I didn't know you needed to check oil back in those days - don't laugh too much).
Now a local garage has said the engine is knackered (the car's done 55k miles from new, full Ford service history). I've been quoted £1600 for replacement including fitting.
What do you guys think I should do, apart from kicking myself for runing it dry - is it worth trying to repair the engine or will that not be econolmical - If I replace it it should be good for many more years but is it worth it? Apart from that the car's in good shape.
Really interested to hear your views,
Thanks,
Ben
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You can pick up another Endura-E 1.3 for peanuts.
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Get in contact with your local salvage breakers, you might find a replacement engine which could provide a competitive solution. If you start a rebuild it might go on and on unless you can pin down what causes the ticking noise and why the engine is described as being knackered. Has it failed an emissions test ?
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Aren't these engines famous for being very tappety? Could it be that or possibly pinking during acceleration? My 82 Granada sometimes make tapping sounds under acceleration (it pinks slightly) when using poor quality petrol.
Just two ideas, otherwise possibly a damaged engine.
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Yes these engines are tappety but surely it should tap all the time, not just under acceleration.
Tapping under acceleration sounds like big ends. Does the oil warning light go off and stay off once it's up and running?
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Big ends sound like heavy hammers.I would go for having tappets adjusted first..If it sounds better/runs better afterwards.You know there wasnt much wrong..I have seen a few of these units run with oil not registering on the dipstick..When they get to run out point/dry.They wont start let alone run.Only problem is oil seals tend to dry up and crack.Just a though but I would try that first
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Steve
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OK I had the tappets done and it's no better. The ticking is always there, but louder on acceleration. What should I do - obviously the main cost of a new engine is the fitting - I've been quoted £1600 total inc vat at a main stealership or £1300 at a local place.
Any advice gratefully recieved.
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Also, the performance is unaffected, so is there any inherant risk to using it in this state? The guy at the garrage said something about possible explosion and loss of brakes but it sounded a bit far fetched to me - if it still passes emisions is it worth doing anything at all?
Thanks for your help guys.
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Can you identify where this loud ticking is coming from? If it's definately from the rocker cover then it's still the tappets. If it's elsewhere, i.e. at the bottom of the engine, then it's big ends (or mains?). But as smokie correctly says bearings tend to "knock" rather than "tick".
If one of the latter then a worn engine would have descreased oil pressure and eventually may sieze, which isn't the kind of thing you want to happen at speed.
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You could have a hole in the exhaust gaske which would give the symptons you quote: toicking noise getting worse on acceleration.
Test is when engine is running is to very carefully run hand over exhaust manifold - do not touch! - trying to feel for escaping exhaust gas but the hole - if any may be behind the manifold and inaccessible.
£1600 for a new engine is a joke.. as is explosion and loss of brakes. Try another garage.
madf
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madf is dead right. It could also be a leak in the downpipe from the engine. If you don't want to risk your hand use a length of pipe (a section of 15mm copper water pipe is ideal) as a stethoscope.
Big ends sound like a little man with a hammer in the engine, plus they tend to quieten down on acelleration as they are loaded up, the noise coming back when you ease off the throttle. Replacing the exhaust gaskets or front pipe on these engines is cheap and easy.
JS
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If this is the overhead valve engine, with a rocker shaft, then I have found that the oil feed hole to the shaft, and the feed to the rockers along the shaft etc tends to silt up, thus no direct suppy of oil to the top end. If there is no oil feed even correctly adjusted tappets will rattle. I used to dismantle the shaft assembly and clean the whole lot out, using a pipe cleaner down the oil feed hole in the cylinder head.
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It is rare to be able to adjust these tappets to optimum.Without grinding the tappet face to valve stem.Unless you have the tool which compensates ie can remove the play which feelers cannot.. The point about oilways are correct.But have only known a few to block up..Have seen most with burnt oil around the rockers/shaft/valve springs but oil free flowing..They did suffer exhaust blows on down pipe joint. I Always thought it a bad design.
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Steve
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Have you had a new clutch fitted ecently? If so the downpipe to manifold joint may have gone: being stressed when engine is jacked up/down to remove/refit gearbox.
madf
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Guys thanks so much for your help so far - here is an update:
* The noise seems worse when engine is cold
* The noise is much louder at lower revs - barely noticable in 4th and 5th gears and when revs are high in lower gears
* Whe the engine is idling, it takes a dip - sounds as though it's about to stall but just manages to correct - always when I pull up at lights etc
* I have realised that ford recomends 5w30 or 10w40 oil and I have been erroneously using 15w30 or 15w40 oil
Does any of this help your diagnoisis?
Thanks again?
Ben
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Oil consumption is now very high - like a litre every 500 miles
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The increased oil consumption could be the result of worn valve stem seals (easy fix), or worn piston bores (less easy). Does it produce any blue smoke out the exhaust?
What's the fuel consumption like?
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Well the fuel consumption seems ok and I haven't notices smoking - the main concern is the ticking noise - sounds like a stick being held against a bikes wheel - I need to know really whether it's likely to become dangerous and how to go about getting it diagnosed and then repaired without getting ripped off.
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High oil consumption COULD be cuased by a hole in an exhaust gasket (I have had that happen to me) but it could be piston slap .. noticeable at low speeds only.
I personally would just keep driving it.. in which case it may last 10,000 miles or go bang next week. If you keep driving consider membership of one of the "get you home if the car breaks" comapnies if you are not one already...
madf
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It still sounds like badly worn Tappets..The valve stem top pushes a dent into the rocker arm..The only way out (unless you can find someone that knows how to fix it)is to have the tappets replaced..As mentioned before they also suffer from cracked valve stem seals/valve guide wear..This is what causes the severe loss of oil..But this only shows up on startup/changing gear.Ring wear. ie oil control ring. it would blow blue smoke all the time.Would suggest you ask around for a decent place to get a second oppinion..
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Steve
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Ticking noise, plus oil consumption, is making me think of a broken piston ring. If it's getting through 1 litre of oil in 500 miles, and it's only one cylinder, chances are the plug will look oily. In this engine you might be able to drop the sump and pull the offending piston out the bottom to replace the rings. I think it is time to take it to someone who knows what they are looking at. Bit difficult to diagnose noises when you are the other end of a network!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Hi
i may be inclined to agree with a broken piston ring. I had a Metro GTa a while back and that seemed to have had the same problems.
The car made a terrible ticking noise on one cylinder at tick over, but when in 4-5 gear and not accelerating it wasnt there. I too had the tappets adjusted to no avail.
The car was using more and more oil until after about another 15K (in 9 months!!) I was using a litre of oil every 100-150 miles. Eventually the oil kept clogging up the spark plug and then failed MOT. I had the car in friends garage who stripped down the engine (more as a practice for an aprentice) and found the piston ring on cylinder 4 was broken...
When the oil burning got out of hand, there was no smoke until the engine warmed up - and then only at tickover..at motorway speeds I couldnt see the smoke screen behind but must have been choking anyone following!!!
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Hi,
Now it's got worse - on releasinf the throttle, there is now a kind of "rattling" noise, like a small stone being shook around in a tin can - this stops completely when I press the gas, and is again only present in gears 1 and 2. Would this be consistent with the piston ring you mentioned? I'm reluctant to rush out and get a new engine stuck in it if it is economically viable to repair it.
Ben
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Seriously, I'd get another engine.
£150-ish from somewhere like Environ (www.environsales.com)
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