Ok, here's the problem. We need to find a motor which will impress clients - give them the feeling that this guy is doing well therefore worth paying £*!@?? per hour. But:
- it needs to handle and move well because I like that
- it needs to seat four adults in reasonable comfort
- it needs to take a family of four plus luggage at the weekend although it doesn't need to fit them all in for a holiday (the X5 does that)
- At present trends, the 3 series will be two a penny by the time I need to replace (2007ish!). Therefore clients will not bat an eyelid at one, so we need something a bit more interesting/rare.
- No VAG group cars (see the thread which started this)
- Needs to be used even on bitter cold February Monday mornings, so no Ferraris (too hard work) and no Alfas (it needs to start ;-D )
- Manual petrol preferred but will consider auto diesel
- Price limit is £30-35k.
I'll be genuinely interested to see what is suggested!
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A bit predictable from me perhaps....a Subaru Legacy 3.0 litre R spec B. OTR from around £26500. Peerless handling in the class, bulletproof reliability and you'll rarely see another saloon. Dare to be different! Go see at www.subaru.co.uk.
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I really ought to report this thread as offensive to owners of VAG models....:-)
As it will be a couple of years before you replace your shiny new status symbol, why not take a look at some of the new models due in the near future as there may be something that catches your eye?
www.channel4.com/4car/future-models/autumn-winter-...l
www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/comingsoon/
Looks as though the new Seat Toledo is out of the question...:)))
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What's for you won't pass you by
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If I had your budget (and I share your tastes, pretty much) I'd buy a 530d. Manual. Saloon probably. I really can't imagine wanting anything else at that end of the market.
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Jaguar X type 3.0 SE V6 Estate
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Must it be brand new?
If not, £35k would buy you a very nice used BMW M5 and a private plate. There isn't a car that would impress me much more.
IMO for business use you don't want anything too "in yer face". If someone turned up to do business with me in a Ferrari or something similarly flash I'd think they were a bit of a poser.
The M5 is all about understated power. Chosing an M5 shows you have nothing to prove.
New is more difficult. Looking out my window I see the guy over the road has a grey 320d estate on his path for the third time since September, which means his new 530d is back at the dealers again. Last month the alarm kept going off every 5 minutes in the middle of the night.
A Jag S-Type diesel would be a more interesting choice than a BMW - big sales of the 3 series have cheapened the badge a bit for me and all the new 1 series arriving in January won't help either.
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Jaguar X type 3.0 SE V6 Estate
Agreed!
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Hey Patently - for that sort of money you can have my car with its 7 seats, I'll chauffeur you around, call you 'Sir' (not too often though!) and Mrs V might even make the occasional appearance as your lovely PA or hostess :)
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And for...shall we say, a grand? I'll look after the 911 for you because that's the general nice guy that I am.
:-)
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Adam
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Not my cup of tea but how about a Volvo XC90?
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scooby or lexus, maybe the right volve estate
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>>no Alfas (it needs to start ;-D )
What do you reckon to that comment No Dosh?
I blame Clarkson et al for perpetuating this view of Alfas. We had two Alfas in the 90s and the last thing we ever worried about, was whether they would start or break down.
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Not sure what line you are in but are you really sure that it makes any real difference. Why not impress them with your individuality instead.
I sell my services at astronomical sums per hour, all my clients are interested in is:
1. Do they like me?
2. Can I deliver?
My car, previously a 1.8 Zafira Elegance, and now a Zafira GSi always attracts positive comment. Maybe that's because I'm always positive about it.
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Patently?
It has to be the Ring-a-Ding-Convert-a-Car
www.hotink.com/wacky/index1.html
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Patently? It has to be the Ring-a-Ding-Convert-a-Car
It even has a propellor attached to it, which was the requirement he forgot to list ;-)
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'give them the feeling that this guy is doing well therefore worth paying £*!@?? per hour'
Or on the other hand - if he's driving a car like that he must being charging too much !!
Maybe a bit too cheap, but how about a Mazda RX8 (The high output one).
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A Hummer!
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Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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Some food for thought.... thanks all.
X-type ... Hmm, suffers from the A4 problem, but relative to the Mondeo rather than the Passat.
S-type ... I did look, but the dealers treated me like dirt (I think I looked about 20 years too young) and the boot & rear legroom are laughable.
Subaru Legacy ... now there is a a novel idea. I'll mull over that one.
530d ... was in fact the first choice before Mrs P asked for an X5, but the delivery date slipped and the siren song of the 3 coupe called! It would have to be an auto though - my initial order was for a manual but test drives rather suggested that the engine was far better suited to an auto box. Or that my driving style is completely unsuited to a manual diesel. Whatever.
A used M5 ... (no, it doesn't have to be new btw). I have wondered. If depreciation is what people say then I might look for one of the early new models in 2007/8. I'd be worried about the ease of driving when tired etc, but I agree 100% on this one.
So far, Vansboy's suggestion has to be top of the list!
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''Subaru Legacy ... now there is a a novel idea. I'll mull over that one.''
I think Subaru are doing a 24 hr test drive at the moment so why not give one a try? If you like well-executed elegant engineering you'll appreciate a Subaru. Little touches like an under-bonnet dipstick for the gearbox. I've always found the dealers helpful. They seem to be staffed by less greasy types than the average car dealership. Perhaps that's because they deal with down-to-earth farming types a lot of the time.
BTW I have no connection with the company other than as a very impressed customer.
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I've realised what would be the problem with a Legacy. I'd go into the showroom thinking "I'm here to see the Legacy. I'm here to see the Legacy. I'm here to see the Legacy." And I'd leave with an Impreza.
Unless the showroom model had gold alloys. In which case I'd be physically ill, there and then.
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I've realised what would be the problem with a Legacy. I'd go into the showroom thinking "I'm here to see the Legacy. I'm here to see the Legacy. I'm here to see the Legacy." And I'd leave with an Impreza. Unless the showroom model had gold alloys. In which case I'd be physically ill, there and then.
>>
I have the same problem. I'm softening up 'er indoors for an STI in blue. Hate those gold alloys too. Not keen on the spoiler either. I wonder if it's a delete option. You could do worse though. Not much better fun available on 4 wheels at any comparable price.
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the Impreza gets another nose job soon.
Were people beginning to like the current one then?
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How about something a bit different? The BMW/Mercs of this world might suggest that you are over paid but something like a the current vauxhall monaro is more equitable, rare, powerful but not too brash. 6 speed box, 30 mpg, enormous V8. What more could you ask for ;-)
Other than that I'd get a skyline gtr-34 :-))))) Reliable, not as OTT as the Mitsubishi Evo or common as an impreza and suggests you're not a boring old person but someone that appreciates reliability as well as oomph.
teabelly
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Patently - you'll give yourself much more choice - and have more fun in the car-choosing process - if you put your association-with-lesser-variants logic on one side: otherwise you'll have to settle for a BMW or a German taxi.
A Saab would be a possibility, but you'd associate it with Vauxhall / Opel.
Volvo / Jaguar / Aston Martin / Land Rover - all big Fords. They say JAGUAR means Just A Granada Under A Reskin.
Lexus - just a Toyota
Let's face it, most cars are made by manufacturers who are part of big conglomerates. All the above, including Audi, are good cars which would make a good, but not over-the-top, impression on your clients. I'd say that BMW and Mercedes are too much "look at me, I've made it": Audi and Saab are probably the best for understated respectability.
I don't know what your line of business is, Patently, but I'd guess you are successful in a service industry, e.g. accountancy or law, where your clients want sound advice, good work for a fair fee, and above all trust. Personally I think my A4 gives the right impression - nothing too strong. At £25K you could save on your budget and keep £5-10K for your pension and / or gift to charity.
If you still think I'm talking rubbish, then go for a top-of-the-range Honda Accord.
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>>- At present trends, the 3 series will be two a penny by the time I need to replace (2007ish!). >>
Patently I agree saloon versions will be plentiful, but coupes are much rarer and hence not only retain their value better but are a superb looking vehicle.
By the time your stated change date in "2007ish", the new 3 Series Coupe will be newly launched and whether in 3 litre petrol form or the brilliant new 3 litre diesel engine with 218bhp and 500 Nm torque, smiles per mile are guaranteed along with fulfilling all the other criteria you require.
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Dude - you've pretty well summed up why I bought the 330Ci thus year.
No-one has mentioned a used Maserati Quattroporte. I do think this looks absolutely stunning, and it is very "different". The problem is that new, it is M5 money but probably not as good*. I wonder what the early ones will sell for at 3 years old? Based on their coupe, 50p should pick up a nice one. Anyone know what its s/h values are looking like?
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*Seems a Maserati trademark - the coupe is 911 money but a pale comparison.
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Patently,
My mate has a used BMW M5 and I have to say the phrase 'understated elegance' fair sums it up.
It is an awesome machine in all senses of the word.
He bought from a guy in Reading who deals in nothing else. Can you get you his details if your interested and Reading is close to you.
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He bought from a guy in Reading who deals in nothing else. Can you get you his details if your interested and Reading is close to you.
Yes please - email address is in the profile. TVM!
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No-one has mentioned a used Maserati Quattroporte
I refer the Hon Member to his own comments about Alfas at the start of this thread. That's why we dinna mention Maseratis.
My cousin had one in the 80s. Gorgeous car, in the garage ... which was just as well, cos that's where it spent most of its time.
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I refer the Hon Member to his own comments about Alfas at the start of this thread.
Ah but they were TIC...
Honourable?! Moi?
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>> I refer the Hon Member to his own comments about Alfas >> at the start of this thread. Ah but they were TIC... Honourable?! Moi?
If they truly were only TIC, then for pure presence I don't think you could do much better than an Alfa 166.
Georgeous car, rare as hen's teeth and (if you hold this in any store) got a very favourable review from Top Gear.
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Maseratis are gorgeous but be prepared to pay a fortune for parts. Ball joints are £600 each and the car has lots of them! The garage owner where I take my lancia to has a W reg 2300 I think it is. 2 ball joints have gone (no warning, distintegrated when he took them off) in the short time he has had it. The car also blew a top hose in the outside lane of a dual carriage at naughty miles an hour which was a serious brown trouser moment. If you don't mind spending £3k a year perhaps on repairs and servicing then a maseriti certainly has the rarity you're looking for.
I still think you'd have just as much fun in a monaro ;-)
If you wouldn't mind a left hooker then perhaps importing one of the larger lancias might be something completely different? Italian Mercedes and all that...
teabelly
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Don't let one Jaguar dealer put you off. My local dealer (Webbers in Basingstoke) have been very good so far. E-mail me through the mods if you are within a reasonable distance and want the name of the salesman I dealt with.
If you widen the scope to include petrol autos, check out:
Jaguar S Type-R.
Jaguar XJR (despite the 'old man' image it's a very quick car).
BMW M5 (if you don't mind the styling and BMW-driver stereotype).
Merc. CLK500.
Kevin...
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The Legacy 3.0R Spec B would get my vote too. The Monaro VXR at £35k would be very tempting too (but I would say that considering my name) as well as the Jaguar XJR.
Also it might be worth considering a
Volvo S60R AWD,
Saab 9-3 Aero,
new Honda Legend (not sure if it is sporty but isn't it the Japanese Car of the Year at the mo?),
Mazda RX-8,
MG ZT V8 260 SE,
Chrysler 300C,
or a final odd ball - imported new Mustang V8.
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Patently,
Email should be with you.
Regards,
Thommo.
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>>No VAG group cars (see the thread which started this)>>
In fairness I have to point out that a well known motoring journalist has been compiling his Cars of 2004 and in his verdict today picks the new Golf GTI as one of them; furthermore, another journalist has described the new Skoda Octavia as great value for money and featuring "exceptional build quality."
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the new Golf GTI the new Skoda Octavia as
Both of which I have a great respect for, but:
We need to find a motor which will impress clients - give them the feeling that this guy is doing well
So they don't qualify for the entirely artificial criteria set at the start of this exercise!
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If you're in the car that's the one for you then nothing else will manage to pass you by
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so wots your current favourite then?
having thought about it a little more if i wos in your position id be going for a sporty volve estate, estate mainly cos the saloons look rubbish and dont handle much better or hold their value as well
volve estate is fairly snob neutral, and the sportier ones are good Q cars in that they are much quicker than anyone would expect
its always hard to know what would be more impressive from your customers point of view
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so wots your current favourite then?
Difficult to say!
I'm really pleased that favourable comment was made re the 3 series coupe as that's what I'm currently in :-)). But, as for the future, things get harder.
I already had in mind a used M5 or a used Quattroporte. The latter got on the shortlist because although I have little nagging worries about its Italian-ness, it looks absolutely drop-dead gorgeous and there are hardly any about. Of course, the flip side of the last factor is that no-one seems to know about them. I guess I'll have to spend a while getting to know them. Ho hum, more hard work ;-)
Monaro ... seems to be a good car from what I read and watch, but my clients are after someone who shows a bit of spark, a bit of lateral thinking. So, Vauxhalls and Volvos are not really 'it', are they?
Saab - loved the 900. At one point I wanted one so much it hurt. Then my chance came - and I loved it. Right up until the moment when it and I reached the first corner. Then the affair ended, as (sadly) I had tested a BMW 323i the week before and the 900 really couldn't compare. And thus began many years of attachment to Munich. Tried them again last year - the website took my details and promised brochures pronto and a test drive soon after. The brochures took a month and first contact from a dealer was several months later, after my order for a 530d had been placed. Oh dear.
Loks like an older M5...
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An M5 would be a great drive. My problem with BMW's is an irrational negative view of the image. I've had two colleagues in the past with beemers, one in IT and the other a successful accountant. Both were arrogant twits who knew it all. If you had a black cat, they had a blacker one. So they've ruined the marque for me unfortunately and I miss out on some good cars. Daft isn't it?
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and I miss out on some good cars. >>
Why not get one anyway and prove to the world that not all BMW owners are arrogant twits?
But please turn off the fog lights unless, of course, it is actually misty...:-)
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Why not get one anyway and prove to the world that not all BMW owners are arrogant twits? But please turn off the fog lights unless, of course, it is actually misty...:-) - - - - - - - - - - -
I'd rather have a Subaru, much prefer AWD. And anyway, how do you know I'm not an arrogant twit? ;-)
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P
Having just got a Subaru Forester Turbo Auto, I would strongly recommend a visit to the Scooby dealers. I test drive the legacy outback as well, superb vehicle, but I don't need the size as SWMBO has a 7 seater.
The beauty of the Forester is its slightly high, giving great comfort and easy ingress/egress, highish profile tyres for a good ride, small enough for zooming around urban/suburban streets quickly and large enough to take out four people for lunch. PS its fast!!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Mmm, some slightly confused thinking here, methinks.
Need a flash car.
But:
a) it has to last 3 years (by which time it will be an ex-flash car)
b) don't mind a second hand car (and ex-flash car)
c) second hand cars are much cheaper - about 50p, really.
So, a combination of requiring the latest, flashest car, YET, with a generous helping of Bangernomics (keep it 3 years, buy it 3 years old so it's already had a bad depreciation hit - by the end of this, you're driving a classic car, 6 years old!).
I'm not sure that you can reconcile all this! I've never had any contact with your line of work, but I am surprised that the car makes such a difference (other than to say we're paying him too much - as people say of Big Four accountancy partners).
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Nice to hear from you again, MM.
I'd query the word "flash" - not a word that I used.
The intention is to rule out the ordinary, not necessarily the cheap. But getting there on time without oily hands is more important, so an beautiful but unreliable classic would not do.
The aim is to be different - to show that I'm not with the herd - more, say, looking on from one side while making my own mind up as to the best direction to run.
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ah get an ignis sport youll have more fun
ha ha
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Flash/Expensive enough to convince clients they should pay you lots. Sorry if the terminology is lax, Patently.
I know we've been through this before, but ND will tell you that a modern car can be as unreliable as you like. If I were you, wanting to be different, I'd spend as close to 10k as I could on a W123 (you might not get that close to 10k too easily, but one that hasn't been out during the winter would be ideal for your purposes). Coupe, Saloon or Estate as you will. Timeless yet cheap motoring. Smart as you could ask for, and provided you can keep the tin worm away, pretty much depreciation free. Or a Mk II Jag, maybe. (Market value under 15k, just, so benefit in kind, if you have a company, is based on original list price!)
3-series says 'yob' - and is more popular than the Vectra, iirc.
Avant & Dulwich Estate both seem to have grappled with this problem in public, on this site, and both came to the same conclusion - VAG or not! I think a nice A4 estate would suit you very well - or the 6 speed Diesel A6, perhaps?
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If you're after something a bit rarer, what about the Rover 75 estate - a very smart looking piece of kit in dark blue with lots of chrome, and rare as hens' teeth, too.
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why would anyone buy a car with such a bad parts supply meaning that the slightest problem will lead to the car being off the road awaiting parts, anyone determined to buy a rover should try virgincars where they appear to be being dumped by rover cos they wont shift at the prices charged by dealers
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rare as hens' teeth, too
This is usually for a good reason..... ;-)
A W123 or a similar classic - tempted.... but I'd worry about it starting every time. Still tempted, though.
Ah well, plenty of time to think about it.
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www.mercseller.com/popup.cfm?p_n=279754&p_i=279754
Unmarked bodywork, brand new engine fitted by MB 500 miles ago, rust-free chassis. #4,250.
It'll take you a long time before you've spent 30,000 on it!
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Looks like a snip. Wish I had £4k to spare.
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