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I have a 1996 Peugeot 106 XLD that's just gone though the 98,000 mark and it's fine hasnt skipped a beat yet. Ok it doesnt have a turbo and up hills you have to give it some, but it's fine. I manage to get 85mph+ on the motorways out of it with dose of Millers diesel Power Plus in the tank.
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"The French have a particular problem with electrics in my experience."
Yep, in 17 years of owning Citroens I've had to change a few headlamp bulbs and tail bulbs, and horror of horrors, my 150k BX failed its MOT 'cos a number plate bulb had gone. Also one glowplug relay on the older 170k BX. (£37 to replace) Never buy a French car - the bulbs are very dodgy - or sell them before 150k is up.
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"The French have a particular problem with electrics in my experience." Yep, in 17 years of owning Citroens I've had to change a few headlamp bulbs and tail bulbs, and horror of horrors, my 150k BX failed its MOT 'cos a number plate bulb had gone. Also one glowplug relay on the older 170k BX. (£37 to replace) Never buy a French car - the bulbs are very dodgy - or sell them before 150k is up.
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Well said, much the same with our Xantia, just tail light/brake light bulbs have occasionally needed replacing. Now as for our experience with a Clio, that is a different story.
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In the two years I ran my Xantia TD the electrical problems amounted to:
One blown bulb.
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Oh, and the XUD engines. Madf is right to point out smoke etc to look for when buying but I have had 2 BX diesels, one 170k, one 150k which had NOTHING done to the engines at all except cambelts at specified intervals and one set of glowplugs for each and I sold both to friends who remained friends. The 170 k was sold on by that friend when it had done over 200k - he said the only thing wrong with it was a slight oil leak from the camshaft oil seal. Wife had a 100k XantiaTD which she traded in against an HDi which has now done 75k - also nowt done to either engine - except cambelts. All have returned at least 45 mpg.
Get a good one (have it inspected first by AA or RAC?) and it will go on for a good long time!
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Just to add my bit, you say it's for the mrs - so are you thinking supermini size??
If so, do you REALLY need the extra cost up-front of diesel, together with higher road tax & potentially, expensive maintainence?Insurance may well be higher, too.
If it's on £$£$£ calculations, you'll need 15K miles / year to make it worthwhile.
I'd be more happy with French offerings than over priced & not made in Germany, German makes!!
Or TDCi Focus.
VB
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"potentially, expensive maintainance"
Sorry to go on, but I often read this about diesels. On mine I have CHOSEN to change the oil and filter every 5000 miles, other than that the engines have not needed any maintenance except glowplugs which seem to last about 70k to 100k - so where is the expensive maintenance?
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Higher road tax and insurance ? Please explain?
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"potentially, expensive maintainance" Sorry to go on, but I often read this about diesels. On mine I have CHOSEN to change the oil and filter every 5000 miles, other than that the engines have not needed any maintenance except glowplugs which seem to last about 70k to 100k - so where is the expensive maintenance?
On VAG cars at least...
MAF sensors, expensive and frequent cambelt and tensioner changes, sensor/ECU problems, complicated vacuum control systems that leak,EGR valves that clog ....shall I continue?
SDI engines should be more reliable than TDI engines (which without £££££ in inept dealer repairs, usually end up going as slow as SDI engines )
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"MAF sensors, expensive and frequent cambelt and tensioner changes, sensor/ECU problems, complicated vacuum control systems that leak,EGR valves that clog ....shall I continue?"
Blimey arky, 400,000 miles in Citroen diesels and the only word in that list I've ever heard of is "cambelt!!
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My experience is that garages charge more for diesel servicing in general. The extra isn't going to break the bank, however.
My old Cavalier (Isuzu 1.7td) had a starter motor and battery replacement - both cost loads more on diesels because of the extra power required to start diesel - the starter motor in this car is a complex geared affair so it can be made sufficiently small to fit under the bonnet. Just one example of how diesels can cost more.
The other thing is that modern diesels are so much more complex...so logic dictates that there is more which can go wrong.
However, I've driven diesels for many years now and never regretted the move. Maintenance may be more expensive (difficult to prove unless running fleets of petrols and diesels) but not prohibitively so.
Splodgeface
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Modern diesels may be more complex - but have you looked under the bonnet of a modern petrol car recently? An ECU is an ECU regardless of fuel. Also both fuels use MAF sensors and EGR valves etc, so the cost of failure is the same.
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And although not diesel, the comprehensive, single previous owner, records on SWMBO's 306 Sedan 1.8 SR show the total electrical problems to have been, err, one battery just before we purchased the car 2 years ago. Since then I have (just) replaced one headlamp bulb.
In fact, in ten years, the total maintenance costs outside routine servicing have been two tyres, the battery, the bulb, one set of wipers, cambelt, waterpump, and as a precaution by me after reading the HJ CBCB, the cluth cable. That's it. I still can't believe that what we purchased as a cheap car for the missus when she passed her driving test can have turned out to be such a huge bundle of fun to drive, and so utterly reliable to run. It is both of these, out of all proportion to image and perceived build quality!
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Phil - as a couple of other b'roomers have answered, there ARE instances where things get a bit expensive.
The tax/insurance cost = say 1.3 petrol Fiesta, as opposed 1.8 diesel.
& if you need the fuel economy of a diesel, 'cos of higher mileage to cover, maybe you wouldn't want this size of car, anyway.
I was simply pointing out some of the additional cost calcualitions to consider, before changing fuels.
Most people, however, unless they DO have a nasty expensive experience, stay with an oil burner, once they try it!!
VB
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Peugeot electrics: SWMBO's Peugeot 106 non turnbo diesel now 11 years old - owned from new. 2 taillight bulbs, 2 diesel glowplugs. plus ..well nothing electrical.
Boldily: almost like new on top. Underneath a bit of bleeding on seams solved with Dinitrol spray.
Mechanically
new front disks and pads.(wear through rust.. SWMBO drives gently)
new rear pads and wheel cylinders
2 x front passenger side suspension arms (humps?)
1 accelerator cable
new cambelt and alternator belt
1 new engine hose.
new from pipe and middle section exhaust (rear box is original and looks good for another 11 years!)
2 sets of tyres.
55mpg: burns 1 pint oil every 2,000 miles
Average journey distance 1.5 miles (a killer.. rarely gets fully warm)
All interior trim slightly grubby but as new condition that apart.
I'm struggling to think of anything else that has gone wrong.
I think Peugoet Citroen engineering is very good..although compared to Ford unneccessarily complex.
If you are looking for a cheap mid range diesel for £3000 you'll get a very good low mileage Xantia..with aircon fsh etc...
madf
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Hmmm. This seems quite interesting, it appears that most people have had good experiences with their French electrics.
Must say I like the look of the Citroen C4...what a stunner. Could be tempted especially if the 2.7 TD is squeezed in!
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"The French have a particular problem with electrics in my experience." Yep, in 17 years of owning Citroens I've had to change a few headlamp bulbs and tail bulbs, and horror of horrors, my 150k BX failed its MOT 'cos a number plate bulb had gone. Also one glowplug relay on the older 170k BX. (£37 to replace) Never buy a French car - the bulbs are very dodgy - or sell them before 150k is up.
I must be only person that has had a dodgy french car !
96 N Xantia 1.8 sx Petrol 95K (three years old at the time)
Turn on the ignition, the heater fan worked as did the lights but the windows and sunroof would not, plus the small issue of no power to the starter motor! 3 days and £550 Citroen found that there was a single wire burnt out in the loom....... oh forgot to mention the hundreds of tiny scratches on the front wings left by the mechanic's......Still being a sucker the cars I had since are as follows;
95 ZX 1.9d - Still have
93 ZX 1.9TD Volcane - With good friend
98 406 2.0GTX Saloon
95 Clio 1.8d - Now with my dad
2002 Clio 172 - head on hit with a Sierra Chasseur while I was stationary didnt help the dimentions of that ugly Clios nose!
98 406 3.0 Coupe - marvellous!
2000 306 HDi Estate - Still have for her indoors!
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Honda Accord's 2.2 cTDi must be the best 4 cylinder diesel engine out there. BMW make good 6 cylinder diesels.
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Honda Accord's 2.2 cTDi must be the best 4 cylinder diesel engine out there. BMW make good 6 cylinder diesels.
I have no personal experience of either, but they don't come cheap do they?
The PSA 2.2 HDI powered cars are a bargain in comparison (the Citroen C5 in particular). Four a 4 cylinder engine it is exceptionally smooth and quiet.
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