Hi everyone. Not posted for a while, but this one has got me thinking.
I know that in a rear end shunt, the shunter, not shuntee, is usually at fault (should keep distance, anticipate braking etc.). But the other day I was following a car down a steep hill in heavy traffic and not once did its brake lights come on. Neither did they come on at the next set of traffic lights we both came to, also on a hill. So therafter I was watching carefully, for quite some time might I add, and I came to the conclusion that both bulbs were out (older car, so she didn't have an eye-level light). There is no way she (yup, 'fraid it was a woman) could have driven all that way without braking, given the route we were travelling: I matched my speed to hers and I had to brake, frequently. This was no simple anticipation of traffic conditions and slowing down through the gears.
So, my question is: what if she had braked sharply and I'd gone into the back of her? I would have had no warning, even though I was keeping a reasonable distance, but because of the flow of traffic most of us were fairly nose-to-tail. Does the keeping your distance still hold? And even if it doesn't, I wouldn't have been able to prove her lights were out if I'd been unlucky and smashed both of them.
I tried to attract her attention, just in case she didn't know, but failed. No doubt she's still driving around blissfully unaware - or perhaps she has Cyclops Syndrome, that nasty disease that?s on the rise again now it's winter, and it?s a particularly nasty dose of it.
(Oh, and another thing: I?ve just swapped jobs and my occasional foray into the city centre has become a daily two-way journey. How do you lot who do it regularly cope with all the selfish and cynical driving? Tips please because my stress levels have risen alarmingly!)
Carole
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IIRC if there is an accident, the police can tell which lights were lit at the time of the crash. If the stop lights were on at the time of the crash then they show a different break pattern that if they were off.
Don't know if that would help you though. IF you realised the stop lights were not working, i would have pulled in and let someone overtake me!
There is no joy to commuting into a city centre. Relax, listen to your favourite station or music (not one that plays rap or garage- whatever that is) that will not get you angry or het up and just go with the flow. If you get home five minutes later, but calm, its worth a fortune and probably several years on your life expectancy!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I don't think that brake lights have anything to do with blame - it is up to you to keep a safe distance behind the car you are following and to be aware if it is slowing down.
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I don't think that brake lights have anything to do with blame - it is up to you to keep a safe distance behind the car you are following and to be aware if it is slowing down.
A safe distance in this context is going to be huge. How you are meant to note the initial slowing if the offending vehicle is so far away?
Easily solved. Milan anti-tank missile for the offender, methinks. Should bring a nice red glow to the rear of the car, and make it stop.
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"If the stop lights were on at the time of the crash then they show a different break pattern that if they were off."
So you expect the police to do a fingertip search of the road surface to pull bits of filament a few thou' thick off the road surface for a regular rear end shunt?
Nope, you have a shunt hard enough to wreck the rear lights of the car in front you are in the doo doo. Brake lights or no brake lights.
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Deviating slightly, if you have a tow bar fitted it ensures that if anyone hits you from behind then their car invariably comes worst!
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Deviating slightly, if you have a tow bar fitted it ensures that if anyone hits you from behind then their car invariably comes worst! -- L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
Correction.....comes off worst.
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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...although I've heard it said that sometimes being hit up the towbar can cause warping of the boot floor, whereas without the bar only bumper damage would have happened
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If you hit someone in the rear when you are both travelling in the same direction then the starting position is that it is your fault.
Its all very well to say that without brake lights you couldn\'t see them brake, but what if their engine had seized and locked, or the gearbox, or the diff ? They would have stopped pdq and you wouldn\'t have had any brake lights to warn you - that would have been your fault.
One point that people miss is that they assume that the fastest the car in front can stop is its braking distance. That is not true, it can hit something and stop an awful lot quicker. That\'s why so many shunts become pile-ups.
There is sometimes a case for contributory negligence. They stamped on their brakes hard and for no reason, their brake lights weren\'t working, they pulled out in front of you, etc, etc.
But basically, if you hit them up the bum, its your fault.
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I remember a report on five live some time ago that claimed some villains had started buying old bangers, insuring them and then deliberately causing rear end shunts. Apparently they would drive around until they pick up a dozy tail gater (not difficult where I live) and then suddenly brake hard for no reason and cause a rear end shunt. Often they have no brake lights to increase the chances of an impact. Afterwards they put in insurance claims for personnel injuries ( there is often 5 in the car) and just about anything else they can think of. The reporter claimed it was more lucrative than turning over post offices.
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Hence the minimum two-second rule of thumb.
A similar, but slightly different, number of rear end shunts happen on a main roundabout near where I live - it serves six junctions, all of which are no further than about two or three car lengths apart.
Originally the road round the roundabout was quite wide but there were so many accidents caused by speeding that it was narrowed to two distinct lanes. Even so the close proximity of junctions meant cars cutting across others from the inside to the outside lane brought accidents.
But the virtually constant traffic flow around the roundabout obviously creates difficulty for those trying to get on. Each junction has two lanes and drivers are constantly primed to spot a gap to join the roundabout traffic.
This is the case too with the drivers immediately behind who also watch and wait for a gap. Several times a week these drivers see a gap and immediately put their foot down.
Unfortunately the car in front is still there.....
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The old "GAP - hes gone, GAP I go -- oopps" syndrome
Yup been there, done that, got the "I lost my NCB T-Shirt"
Fortunately, those ones are relatively low speed, but can cause a fair amount of damage. My last one left a small scratch in the bumper of the goona, and the remains of a T reg Nissan "almera size thingy" rear bumper, numberplate, light and various bent panels in the road.
Quite a tank the goona.
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Oh yes done it once and almost done it hundreds of times..
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I know of vehicles (Land Rovers) that has a switch for turning the tail lights off.
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I know of vehicles (Land Rovers) that has a switch for turning the tail lights off.
Presumably ex military! All Army vehicles have this facility - to enable them to move into tactical positions at night without their brake lights giving away their position
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>> I know of vehicles (Land Rovers) that has a switch for >> turning the tail lights off. Presumably ex military! All Army vehicles have this facility - to enable them to move into tactical positions at night without their brake lights giving away their position
That's clever of them! Nice to see some intelligence applied to a high-tech solution. So how do they get round the fact that satelite heat-imaging can spot a LandRover from about 50 miles up?
And why don't they have those funny headlight covers from wartime blackout days?
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That's clever of them! Nice to see some intelligence applied to a high-tech solution. So how do they get round the fact that satelite heat-imaging can spot a LandRover from about 50 miles
Cliff,
Blimey that satelite is in a nice low orbit.
That facility was designed for vehicles deployed in NW Europe after second world war.
Believe it or not armies are still deployed against opponents who use the Mark 1 eyeball as their primary spotting device.
C
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Mil landrovers have "convoy" lights. When the light switch is set to convoy the front and rear lights are out, and a set of low intensity lights underneath the vehicle are switched on. It enables you to see the vehicle infront, when in convoy, and not ruin the night vision of the guys in front of and behind you.
And no, they are not of the purple fluorescent variety!
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Happened to me on Thursday - a dozy so-and-so in a big Nissan 4x4 Pickup rammed in the back of my P reg Golf when I was joining a main road.
I had trouble seeing traffic at the junction because of a council ride-on lawnmower on the verge. So I was \"peeping and creeping\". I am guessing he could see over the lawnmower so when I crept (not being able to see) he thought I was going and put his foot down, straight into my pink fluffy dice.
Nice big dent in my boot, bumper damage and the boot doesn\'t shut properly now (whether this is just the boot or whether the boot lip is bent too I\'m not sure). At least my insurers (Elephant) said no worries and put me in touch with the nearest bodyshop straight away.
Within 30 minutes the ambulance chasing lawyers were on the phone too asking if I had whiplash. I declined their offer to sue for damages... (other than to get back my 300 quid excess off the other guy)
Mike
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Within 30 minutes the ambulance chasing lawyers were on the phone
Probably referred by the insurer as you had paid for legal expenses cover. So they're the lawyers that you've already paid for....
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Does that mean insurers pass on accident details to "shysters" (I think that's the correct term), including your phone number?
I wouldn't be too happy about that.
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No, it's the approved firm of solicitors on the insurer's panel.
It's a bit like the approved bodyshop turning up at the site of the accident to haul your wreckage away. Only the guy in the truck has shorter fangs. And you can tell the difference between him and his rottweiler.
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This nearly happened to me this morning, some Japanese 4wd thing nealry got stuffed by and angry Beemer. I noticed that his rear brake lights were not working in time though. Police can ( I recall a case invovling an MP a few years ago) forensically test light bulbs, expensive and certainly not routine. This wasn't a routine bump though, they got their man.
Ambulance chaser ? - If I do I tend to keep my distance....the fangs have to be pretty long these days as pay dirt on cases is pretty deep. One has to make a living.....
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I read in the paper the other day that 40% of insurance payouts for personal injury go to the "solicitors".
I think we can all see who the winner there is.
-Mark
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Had to tell the driver of a police range rover last nioght that only his high level break light was working and the other two were out. Well, he would have been in a sticky situation had he stopped someone for the same offence and they had spotted it wouldn't he?
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Tried telling a patrol car that one of his brake lights was out a couple of years back.
Reaction: "Thanks, but you're the fifth person to tell me so far!"
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