Hi all
Any advice about bying a banger to teach my children to drive
as driving lessions for two kids are expensive.
I wish to spend between £500 - £700 what is the best type to go
for ie model/make buy from who? and where? any other tips would be appreciated.
Thanks Ernest
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For this sort of money there are a huge number of unwanted cars available. If you can tell a decent car from a heap, look for a private sale in Auto Trader or the Fish4cars website. As regards model, I suppose it depends if you intend to keep it or simply pass a test in it. Something not too big or powerful or expensive to insure - Metro? (ugh) Micra ? 205 ? Corsa ? Fiesta?
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i would love to know where you can buy a corsa for under £700 ???
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corsas have been built for years early ones would be lucky to fetch 200ukp
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where on earth do you live, in the north these cars go for at least £1200, but these cars are sort after in newcastle because they are small, still 'OK' looking, and people in newcastle want a small city car.
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Andy is refering to what we call a Nova, sold in Europe as a Corsa. They were only badged as Corsa in UK with the arrival of the Corsa B model.
Regards
JS
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Don't get an Austin Maestro, I had one from new a few years ago and it was a banger then, so you have no chance with one of those. Seriously, though, I would recommend at least a few lessons with a qualified instructor, I know the lessons are expensive but I do believe this is the only way. Afer a few lessons a cheap car is OK for practising what the instructor has already told them, but at least they will be taught correctly from the start, which is something I do not think a person who is not a qualified instructor can do. It is firmly believed that not many people driving today would pass their test if the had to take it again, so how can they teach others how to drive correctly? Bad driving habits are easy to pick up. I have no connection with a driving school but have been driving for 36 years and the driving standards we have today do not impress me very much.
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Go to bangernomics.tripod.com/ - site set up by Richard Hall who sometimes contribute to this site, very informative, readable, and makes sense even to me!!!
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I'll have to agree with Marman about taking a few lessons with a driving instructor before embarking on teaching the kids yourself. Not an unbiased opinion, as this is how I earn my living but if I had to take to the roads without the dual controls I have to use every day I would pack up the job. A good instructor will at least be able to advise you as to when your kids are ready to drive without such aids. If you are going to have a go yourself, at least invest in a cable-operated dual brake for those heart stopping moments when junior is on a downhil roundabout approach and gets his/her feet in a muddle.
Good luck.
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I have heard that prices of these cars are plummetting. I have always been inyerested in buying a VR6 Vento so now may be the time. Anyone any knowledge of recent prices?
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I disagree with the previous posts.
It would be a good idea to let your children to drive a cheap banger first then once they have the basics ( pulling away/braking e.t.c ) start lessons with a instructor who will teach them how to pass the test.
Myself and all of my friends started driving this way. Go to your local industrial estate on a sunday and you will find lots of L-plate drivers practicing in bangers.
The instructor who taught me and my friends was an retired police driver. He had a Vauxhall Nova with NO dual controls or huge 'Learner driver boards' on the roof- just L-plates either end.His pass rate was 98% first time with an average of just 9 lessons.
I think a instructor who relies on dual controls and glaring Learner signs all over his car is giving a bad vibe to any learner driver.
As for a good learners car,try a fiesta (check for rust on rear sills) or Nova.These are cheap to run/insure/fix and easy to resell .
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98% pass rate after nine lessons? He must have been good, Steve. The DSA reckon the average pupil takes 40 lessons, and the national average pass rate is 43%.
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My daughter had scores of lessons with several different local driving schools. Each gave her up as a bad job. They all told her that unless she did as she was told, it was all a waste of time. She complained that all they were interested in was moaning about their private lives. A couple of weeks before her test her current instructor told her she didn't have a chance of passing as she went to fast, and did this, that, and everything else wrong. She dumped him and booked four lessons and her test with BSM. Within four lessons all of her problems were sorted. She said that the instructor actually taught and explained things. Passed first time as well.
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steve paterson wrote:
>
> My daughter had scores of lessons with several different
> local driving schools. Each gave her up as a bad job.
[snip]
> She said that the instructor
> actually taught and explained things. Passed first time as
> well.
Finding the right instructor is vital - and also thinking about the best place to take the test! I started learning to drive in London, but didn't really get on with my instructor. Failed one test, decided to wait until I was at University (Durham) before trying again. Got on much better with the instructor, didn't feel he put me down as the previous one had, and there was so much less traffic up there! Had also had lots of 'real' driving experience with my very patient and generous big sister, which helped a lot.
Passed my test, came home, first trip alone ended up reversing into a parking space on Bromley High Street! Petrified I would hit something (not part of the test in those days) but I didn't, and haven't really looked back since.
I later gave my husband the benefit of my experience - he had lessons as well, but went out with me regularly. Let's just say he took the test more times than I did. My 'teaching'? His lack of skill? Who knows!
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Quickest way to cause a family war is to try to teach a son or daughter to drive.
Good luck
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FIAT Panda 1000 Fire 5-speed, facelift model with a few electro galvanised panels. Should get an H or J for £300 - £400. Properly looked after the engines do 200k + (I interviewed a guy with a 200k Panda, then his neighbour turned up in one that had done 215k). Avoid the 750 Fire. And avoid the 900 pushrod engine like the Black Death.
HJ
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i have my sisters fiat 127 with lots of history and only 41,000 miles, you can have the car for only £495, and its just been restored.
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Another Dream or are you in the real world today ,your sisters car changes in year condition ,price every week
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what are you talking about??? you know that my sister has a fiat 127, i have just repaired the bodywork, so thats why i am selling it for £495. also have i put the age of the car, no i didnt.
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If you book with one of the well known schools, are there different levels of instructor to choose from, or is it luck of the draw? I'd prefer my daughter to drive with one of their instructors with the highest qualifications if pos. or is that a bit pedantic perhaps?
S.
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Yes, Approved Driving Instructors are graded 1- 6, 6 being the best. Usual advice is look for at least 4, preferably 5 or 6.
The Grade is shown on their ADI badge on the car, or simply ask.
Regards
JS
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Ernest,
Another advantage of a banger is that it may go wrong!
That way, the kids get to learn the rudiments of how cars work, and how to fix them.
Too many folk on the road today haven't a clue - they know they have to press the clutch, but haven't got a clue what it does ...
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Absolutely no contest
Old Polo circa 83 should be able find one with 70k on the clock, cheap spares, built like cars should be! Very little rot.
You can forget the annual Mig welding session and welder that should come free with Fiestas metros novas of the same age.
Same applies to older golfs, forget maestros escorts etc
If the kids would accept it a low mileage 1.4 340 should be cheap to insure and seem to have a lot of metal left.
Remember it is not a case of if they hit something, merely when.
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Peter
I have to agree. A friend of mine's son has recently got his first car, post uni, and i'ts a "B" plate Polo (booted version, whatever that is called). It seems to be remarkably free of rust and absolutely bomb proof.
What was also surprising is that we were chivvying the lad in the pub about changing the cam belt, and he went out and did it the next weekend. He got a Haynes book and a new belt, all for under £25 and did the job by himself in a couple of hours. He learned a lot (including earning considerable respect from his elders) and shows a real pride in his car. Well done, I say.
Ian
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Agreed! and now he realises that things *can* break, thus the more he has to fix, so he *won't* drive around like a complete moron, and knacker the engine!
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Re driving test is there an easier way? I mean use a bit of this Eurocrap everyone's always moaning about via reverse psychology? I mean get your license in an easier country then swap it for a UK one? Part of a package holiday to Cyprus perhaps, aren't they part of the Euromess yet? They drive on the left too, at least in the bottom half of the island. Or Gibraltar, but hurry before the Man of Straw hands it over to Spain.
If you happen to be visiting Australia take your test in the bush mate. I had to go 80 miles to the nearest police station to get my truck license. Drove there naturally in the truck I wasn't licensed to drive yet. Local copper was a Geordie. Gave me a cup of tea then asked only oine question -- had I driven that thing here. Yes I said, nervously. Did tha hit anything on t'way? No officer, apart from the odd wallaby. Sign here then lad, and Doris'll type out tha license while tha waits.
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actually youre better off kepping a foreign licence and driving on that, or even swap your uk one for irish/belgian/swiss licence, all you need is a crediable local address
plod in uk then wont bother you unless you are an exeptionally bad boy
minor speeding in uk with a belgian licence = no ticket, no court, no points
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plus registering with the police the city the land ,showing your bank details ,your insurance certicates ,your medical care ,tax registration and handing in a valid uk licence you may get a eu licence
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It's way different with daughters - at least with mine.
The last thing she wants to do is fix the car. Much as I could do to show her how to check under the bonnet - that's what fathers and garages are for!
Like most of her friends she wants something modern, reliable, that starts every time, and frankly doesn't want to be bothered with a choke etc. So we swapped the second car for an insurable learners car - 1.2 Corsa - it matched the Driving Instructors car, she passed her test, did Pass Plus and everyone was happy (1)(2).
And in many ways I have to agree. It's fine for the 'well genned up' lads (which I was once) to play around with cars, adjust the choke, accept the minor glitches of the older cars, but it's one more distraction when you are learning to drive, and frankly can make the proces that bit more dangerous. At least with a modern motor you can just get in and go, and that suits the newer driver. We have to accept that everyone isn't as 'keen on cars' as us! I believe there is some merit in learning to drive on a modern car and then 'progressing' to a classic as inclination and funds permit.
Regards
JS
(1) Don't buy a new motor you will worry about - inevitable happened Daughter backed into a huge Staddle Stone in the dark = new tailgate!
(2) Daughter now at Uni, Wife now missing PAS - inevitable upgrade of second car approaching
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If your offspring take the test in your own car - especially an old one, watch the test requirements.
Check the application form for full details, but as I recall the car MUST have a second mirror for the examiner, and also a head restraint for the examiner. Might be tricky in an oldie.
regards
JS
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True. Mine's great. But cheap parts? NO! Clutch £150, radiator £130, brakes £200 (front pads and discs, rear cylinders), clutch cable £60, plugs and leads £50. The aerial was near impossible to replace. Great car, but when it breaks it's an arse.
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40 Lessons to pass the driving test ??
I dont no anybody who had that many.
The sixth form crowd i used to be with all had about 9-12 lessons with the instructor i mentioned earlier and the rest 18-25 lessons normally with BSM ( Bring Some Money).
Everybody who used the instructor i had passed first time. The downside of using this instructor was you had to book lessons months in advance.So i booked my lessons when i was still 16.
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I was taught to drive by my wife, although she later claimed that she "allowed me to experience driving". To be fair I had driven before (on farms) so could more or less control the thing, change gear and so on before I started. I also think the amount of cycling I do helped me understand traffic and not be intimidated by it. She was amazingly patient and after a few runs on a local industrial estate I drove as much as possible (about 3000 miles in two months), including a few runs up the A1, swapping drivers when it became the A1M. In the end it took two lessons to get rid of bad habits and get me through the test. Not that I'd recommend this method - it was important that I learned to drive quickly and we were broke. On the first lesson the instructor took me on a dual carriageway. We were doing seventy and the car (a Rover Metro) was screaming and shaking like mad, when he leaned over and said: "This car has five gears". Our old Austin Metro only had four, so it didn't even occur to me.
Chris
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ChrisR wrote:
... including a few runs up the A1, swapping drivers when it became the A1M.....
I did all my driving lessons with an instructor (Dad didn't want me driving his old 7 series BM funnily enough), and then had my first long run up and down the very same road you mention.
As I'd not been introduced to dual carriageway driving, I was absolutely terrified, even though I had the papers to say I could drive anywhere. Ended up getting out of the car and leaving it to my Uncle to drive me home.
I was probably a danger to myself and other road users. I'd hate to have to try it now when the roads are much busier. Good to see they've finally introduced it (dual carriageways, not panicing) as part of the test, but I don't think much can prepare you for the bedlam of the A1 around rush hour.
Lee.
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Lee wrote:
>I don't think much can prepare you for the bedlam of the A1 around rush >hour.
Quite. I'm glad I did those long trips as a learner though, because a few days after I passed my test we drove to the Loire valley in the ten year-old four gear 1.0L Metro(!). Even the A1 at rush hour doesn't prepare you for the Peripherique around Paris. I am mentally scarred to this day. The car loved French extra-leaded petrol, though.
Chris
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What have driving lessons / tests to do with bangernomics?
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??
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Threads tend to wander in mysterious directions, Paul.
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How about a Peugeot 205? Lots of them about, usually little rust, they handle well and are comfortable and economical. A nice example with 4 doors and 60K miles at my local garage for £345 with a year's MOT.
A friend recently bought one for her son to learn on - £600 with FSH and a CD player!
P.
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yea but insurance is normally the biggest part of the cost, especially if you want it to be insured in the young un's name before or after passing the test
this is why small engined nova's are so popular, cos they are the cheapest car to insure of that age/ilk
however lots of young un's then stick alloys on or whatever on, not realising that in doing so they have invalidated the insurance...
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Yep.
Someone asks the simple question as to which variety of grapefruit adds a tang to a fruit salad and we've got it round to Xantia TDs in no time.
Well I have anyway.
David
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HJ recommended the Panda to me about 9-12 months ago. I bought one on an H plate £350, 35,000 miles. It starts, it goes, it stops eventually, and does about 40 to the gallon. The wife tends to use it as I normally use the blackbird to go to work. She also has the 2.5 Mondeo estate, but that now spends most of its time sat in the garage. The Panda does all that you need for day to day use. It aint fast but its cheap and reliable and doesnt rust to much.
Bill
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yea but you have
crash protection = NIL
in a panda
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Paul,
Ernest did ask for any other tips. I hope my contribution has been helpful.
Do you have any tips?
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wander round a few scrapyards and see how your prospective pruchases look after a smash
although crumple zones are supposed to crumple to absorb energy (dont let that bother you)
what is cabin intrusion like etc
in the old banger space a nova is much better than a panda after this evaluation
panda's become a big mess after even a small shunt, wouldnt be surprised if they stopped selling them cos they couldnt pass newer crash regs
isnt inability to pass crash regs the reason AX's were stopped eventually ?
maybe someone will know?
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Sue - thanks for the plug! I would go for a Polo 1300 CL or Ranger myself - it has an automatic choke which usually works, and at that sort of money you should get a later one with a 5 speed box, rev counter and other goodies. And buy on condition, not age - these cars rust very slowly, and a well cared for 1984 Polo will be a much better proposition than a hard-used 1991 vehicle.
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Trouble with Polos of that age is the effort you have to put in to make them stop !!
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When did the Polo first come out? 1976?
Anyway Mum had a new one (3dr Hatch) in bright yellow. The build and ride/driving refinement were staggering at the time for a supermini. It wasn't so different to a 2 litre of a few years earlier.
David
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I'm with Richard on a 1300 Polo. Me and my brother have put almost 100,000 miles on it between us. Drives and stops much, much better with decent 175/70 tyres on (instead of the slightly narrower 165/80s everyone seems to put on them).
Rob
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What a fantastic response
Thank you all that replied given
much food for thought, good helpful
site.
thanks again
Ernest
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that seems to be common in all vauxhall/opels
like the cavalier/vectra etc
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"panda's become a big mess after even a small shunt, wouldnt be surprised if they stopped selling them cos they couldnt pass newer crash regs"
But don't forget: you're not having the choice between a current big Volvo and an old Panda, but between an old moped and an old Panda quite often.
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