Myself and the wife, plus the occupant of another car had a great bit of scadenfradue today. Travelling down our local dual carriageway signs of lane closure in 800m.
I move across as the inside lane was moving, at about 400m traffic comes to standstill as cars pull in.
Car behind me lets in a VW Golf, who duly thanks the driver.
At about 250m to go to the closure an Alfa driven by a woman in her 50s is trying to get to the inside lane - patiently indicating and waiting for a gap. The guy in the VW is so close to me a sheet of newspaper would have filled the space. The Alfa is alongside the VW who is protecting 'his' road.
I see the VW driver gesticulating to the Alfa driver along the lines of 'you aint coming in front of me' and words were exchanged.
Seeing this commotion I slow down to leave a gap in front of me, wind the window down and beckon the Alfa to pull in front of me - the VW driver's face was a picture!
What p'd me and the wife off most was the fact that the VW driver had done what the Alfa was trying to do, but someone had let him in - numpty.
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I understand what you are saying, but it begs the question why didn't the Alfa driver try to get into the inside lane 150 yds earlier? If the Alfa driver was then overtaken and she let him in - and someone overtook him etc etc, you could still be out there!
We have had this discussion many times in the Backroom. The way to get the highest traffic flow through a 'choke' point is for the traffic to merge some hundred yards beforehand and not wait until the choke point is reached. No matter how many drivers comply with this practice there will always be some drivers who will overtake everything and try to dive into the left lane at the last possible moment. Traffic then 'stalls' at the choke point. That?s why you get vehicles usually HGVs who try to 'police' the lanes by staying alongside each other and preventing someone jumping a queue of traffic.
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We have had this discussion many times in the Backroom. The way to get the highest traffic flow through a 'choke' point is for the traffic to merge some hundred yards beforehand and not wait until the choke point is reached. No matter how many drivers comply with this practice there will always be some drivers who will overtake everything and try to dive into the left lane at the last possible moment. Traffic then 'stalls' at the choke point.
Actually Cardew, the highways agency and police would rather all the merging took place at the designated merge point, and that a sensible merge in turn policy was maintained by the drivers.
Sadly there are always selfish gits who, having merged half a mile before the point that the authorities have designated, won't let anyone in to "their" road. A pox on them all I say.
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Merging in turn at the choke point (Zip merging) is by far the most sensible wat to deal with a lane closure. It ensures every one will get into the open lane in turn and reduces aggression and frustration. It also shortens the lenght of the queue, which means the traffic is less likely to tail back onto a roundabout and block that too, causing another jam.
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The "zip" techique is widely used in Hong Kong, where there are hundreds of merge points with such a complex road system in a small geographical area. Not so in the Philippines, where letting anyone in at any stage to anything is viewed as a lack of manhood! Whereas forcing one's way in is regarded as highly macho. We can thank 400 years of Spanish colonization for that.....
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In spite of what the Americans believe about themselves as individualists, they are mostly conforming and compliant. Hence, when they see a sign at roadworks saying "Weave", they do, car by car with little aggro and much smoothness. Can someone introduce that concept into the Highway Code, please, and get some signs made?
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Picking up on Roger's point. I'm sure that some years ago whilst driving in the US I came across what seemed a very sensible solution where just before the merge point the traffic flow in one of the lanes was altered by cones to ensure a 'peaceful' zip type merge about 20 yards further down the track. Seemed to work very well as I recall and overall traffic flow was hardly affected. Obviously far too sensible to be considered here.
PS At the risk of getting up the noses of all the 'polite' drivers in this place I'm also with those who stck to the HA recommendation that merging should take place at the point of the merge and not hundreds of yards further back.
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Taking turn and turn about is also a system used in Guernsey at many road junctions. It seems to work very well and keep the flow of the traffic, which is surely what we all want.
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Not merging until the merge point achieves another thing.
When the lane closure is in fact 'phantom' - i.e. the lane has been reopened, but the signs have not been removed; or vice versa, then there would be no need for any queueing at all provided people did not try to merge too eary.
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I think that taking turns to merge is the best way and too few r'works have signs to this effect.
Would it be too complicated/dangerous when closing a lane down to have the single lane stradling both lanes to begin with (ie cone off the left of the left lane, and right of the right lane)? Surely this would result in a more natural turn taking merge.
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>a sign at roadworks saying "Weave"
I shudder to think what effect that might have on some of our road users! :-)
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No Dosh,
What I specifically stated was "The way to get the highest traffic flow through a 'choke' point is for the traffic to merge some hundred yards beforehand" (not miles) The Highways Agency and agencies abroad have carried out many experiments on traffic flow through obstructions and (to answer Roger Jones point) Germany introduced signs with a large picture of Zip to encourage this behaviour. This is still the 'Zip technique' but because the traffic can 'sort itself out' well beforehand, and hence pass the choke point at a faster speed, more vehicles will get through in a given time.
As for "sensible merge in turn" in UK? what nirvana! There will always be those who try to gain a car length or two and those who will not leave a gap.
C
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No Dosh, What I specifically stated was "The way to get the highest traffic flow through a 'choke' point is for the traffic to merge some hundred yards beforehand"
But you also complained about the woman trying to merge 'late' despite the fact that the story states she did so with 250 metres yet to go.
I would like to take this opportunity to admit to my own weak-willedness. I fully agree with the people on here who say use the lanes to their full capacity and merge when you need to, not before, but I just don't have the willpower to go past all those hate-filled glares. I merge at a kind of mid-point.
Sorry.
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I'm all for the zip signs - seen them in action and they appear to work.
As for merging 'hundreds of yards beforehand' this would have proved impossible yesterday. The first sign indicated a lane closure in 800 yards - by 600 yards the traffic had stopped and was backing up behind me very quickly - there are three slip roads in the 1.5 miles.
It's a busy dual carriageway and the closure was in the last 100 yards before a signal controlled roundabout. The traffic was backing up to such a point that the queue would have formed well before the 800 yard warning sign - so people legitimately in the outside lane to turn right at the roundabout would have been unaware of the lane closure until they saw the first sign, by which time the inside lane was solid!
It's the attitude of the VW driver which got us more - he expected someone to let him in, but wasn't prepared to let someone in front of him!
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The British queueing mentality never fails to amaze me, particularly since I left the place. On the continent everyone use both lanes right up to the merge point, meaning less waiting time for everyone.
It strikes me as rather pathetic that everyone back home likes to sit in a mile long queue while a large percentage of available road space is regarded as the domain of the pushy who should not be let in at all costs.
Last time I was back home someone tried this cr*p on with me and I just decided to have a collision as I was in a hire car with CDW. They soon backed down when they realised a crash was inevitable. Driver education is needed as well as less of the "my bit of road" mentality. I regard those sort as the worst kind of losers.
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Are you really saying you would cause a collision just to proove a point ?
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You could argue that as the other driver should be letting traffic merge (as I believe the highway code advises) then any collision would be primarily their fault.
I've never tested the theory but next time I'm using a hire car (paid for and rented by the company I work for and no comeback on me whatsoever) I might well try it out.
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I'm not sure that it would make a great contribution to national road safety, Febus...
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Regardless of the principle at stake, if you're in a position to prevent an accident and you let it happen, it's your fault. I don't think stubbornness is an argument that goes down well in court.
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Last time I was back home someone tried this cr*p on with me and I just decided to have a collision as I was in a hire car with CDW. They soon backed down when they realised a crash was inevitable.
But this is a risky strategy. I too used to take the "let me in or collide with me" approach, when I was a lot younger and a lot less boring and sensible, but after one particularly near miss it dawned on me that if I met someone as intransigent as me and had a collision, the only points that I would have proven would be that
a) collisions snarl up the traffic
b) modern car panels bend easily
c) no-claims bonuses can be lost even more easily.
Another influencing factor was that to do this to the wrong person round where I live is to run a significant risk of getting thumped (or worse). I've seen it happen.
I personally wouldn't rely on the CDW, either - if you'd had a collision I strongly suspect you would have found that, if the hire company's insurers had formed the view that you'd done this deliberately, you'd have been presented with their compliments and a four-figure invoice, CDW notwithstanding.
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>>(paid for and rented by the company I work for and no comeback on me whatsoever)
Apart from your job...?
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The British queueing mentality never fails to amaze me, particularly since I left the place. On the continent everyone use both lanes right up to the merge point, meaning less waiting time for everyone. It strikes me as rather pathetic that everyone back home likes to sit in a mile long queue while a large percentage of available road space is regarded as the domain of the pushy who should not be let in at all costs. Last time I was back home someone tried this cr*p on with me and I just decided to have a collision as I was in a hire car with CDW. They soon backed down when they realised a crash was inevitable. Driver education is needed as well as less of the "my bit of road" mentality. I regard those sort as the worst kind of losers.
Rather strange post I thought.
Firstly how does waiting to the merge point mean less waiting time for everyone?
Secondly, you appear to be holding up the driving standards of everyone on the Continent as a role model for British motorists. The attitude of many continental motorists and yourself, if your last paragraph is to be taken seriously, leads to much higher accident and casualty rates than GB.
Thirdly, run by me again who needs 'driver education'.
Given your disenchantment with Britain, and contributions in the "towing Caravans" thread, no wonder you left this "place"; our 'loss' is the Continent's gain!
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"Firstly how does waiting to the merge point mean less waiting time for everyone?"
Because there is effectively double the space to queue in ie everyone doesn't try to pull in as soon as they realise the lane will end. Resulting in 2 queues where there is no petty 'station holding', no conflict and therefore a genrally smother traffic flow.
The people that need driver education are the ones that feel the need to merge lanes the moment they see a lan restriction. effectively reducing the available amount of road to hold traffic and thus lengthening the wait of time for everyone.
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