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Having just returned from holiday this evening, and driving across Fance in "now it is, now it isn't"-type rain, I've tried to find a definition of what weather actually constitutes the wetness necessary to lower the speed limits on French roads - does it actually have to be raining? Does a wet road after a heavy downpour but with rain not actually falling mean the speed limit is reduced? I've tried googling the answer with no luck, just statements that the speed limit is reduced "in the wet". Does anyone know of a definitive test that Monsieur le Plod will apply prior to booking the unsuspecting?? Or is it, as I suspect, subjective rather than objective?
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When your wipers are in use? intermittent or constant? not sure just guessing, could be a very grey area. I suppose it's down to common sense and the discretion of the Gendarme.
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I can\'t give a formal answer to the question, but unless you\'ve got one of those special BMWs with tyres, wipers, lights etc. which allow you to do ANYTHING at vast speeds I\'d suggest commonsense is sufficient.
The \"dry\" limit is 130kph - 81mph. Call me an old man, but if the road is wet you won\'t see me doing 81mph however good my tyres are.
Thread modification: I often yo-yo with other cars on motorways in bad weather. By this I mean when the rain / spray is heavy I slow down and when it eases I speed up. Most people just blunder along at their own speed wizzing past in the wet and then I overtake them when the road is dry-ish and drying.
Old man or not?
PS What was that in the news ? 10% of drivers scared of motorways and try to avoid them? I don\'t know about you - I\'m just scared of the idiots.
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I can\'t give a formal answer to the question, but unless you\'ve got one of those special BMWs with tyres, wipers, lights etc. which allow you to do ANYTHING at vast speeds I\'d suggest commonsense is sufficient. The \"dry\" limit is 130kph - 81mph. Call me an old man, but if the road is wet you won\'t see me doing 81mph however good my tyres are. Thread modification: I often yo-yo with other cars on motorways in bad weather. By this I mean when the rain / spray is heavy I slow down and when it eases I speed up. Most people just blunder along at their own speed wizzing past in the wet and then I overtake them when the road is dry-ish and drying. Old man or not?
I agree with most of what you say, but there is still the grey area as to whether the road is \"wet\" - it can take hours to dry after a heavy downpour but is perfectly safe, despite going through the \"very damp\", \"damp\" and \"almost dry\" phases. I\'m happy to drive my Saab 9-5 at 80mph when the road is \"damp\", but not \"very wet and actually raining\".
The point I was trying to make is whether my personal judgement is sufficient - and at what point the french plod consider the 110kph limit to be in force. Arguing with them is difficult enough but when you don\'t even speak the same language.....
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As we are discussing speed and 'the wet' the obvious answer is 'conditions where the road surface is wet enough to make the control of speed more difficult'. How you define that explicitly is another matter. Common sense and experience I suppose.
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If you are not sure if the lower (dry) or upper (wet) limit applies, why not stick to the lower limit?
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Think you got your wet and your dry mixed up there Paul
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The french road signs always have a picture of rain falling from the sky - not of rain sitting on the road. I'm usually pretty happy to drop to 68 when the road is wet as well.
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I'd treat 68 as the limit in the event of falling rain or the road surface being wet enough for vehicles to throw spray.
Drfiting the thread further we noticed a French practice also adopted by convoys of Dutch to drive on hazards rather than rear fogs in really torrential stuff. Couldn't quite see the point but is this law or reccommended practice in either country?
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Everyone is making valid points, and clearly common sense is the key. But no-one is answering the question! I was hoping that somewhere along the line it's written down in the french equivalent of the Highway Code (despite rumours to the contrary, there must be one), and that someone would know where to find it, or the answer to my specific question, online. I guess the only answer is to email the french embassy or similar....
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>>But no-one is answering the question!
Frustrating isn't it. Please do let us know when you find out!
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Every link I've found on the subject simply states "Wet Weather".
It's so very "New" British to insist on a definition when in the past a bit of common sense would do. Wet is wet, however you choose to measure it.
Road is wet? That will be wet weather then. Lower limit or some argent s'il vous plais Monsieur.
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Sorry, ND, I don't think it is that clear.
Weather is things like rain, snow, wind etc. Oxford Concise gives 'the state of the atmosphere at a place & time as regards heat, cloudiness, dryness, sunshine, wind and rain etc. So water falling out of the sky is wet weather.
A wet road is not wet weather. It is a wet road.
And as I observed above, The French road signs always have a picture of rain falling from the sky - not of rain sitting on the road.
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Look here
yahoo.hyperpermis.com/moto/cours/403.html
and you will see that if the road is wet then vitesse needs to be reduced accordingly.
Having said that I overtook some Gendarmes last week at 130kph on an empty, wet autoroute and they were not the slightest bit interested. There is a lot to be said for 4WD in such situations, just don't get overconfident as braking distances are still greatly increased.
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We've got a wet weather warning sign here in the UK too. You must have seen it, I think it means it might be windy too - it's in a red triangle and shows a bloke leaning down to the left and struggling to open up his umbrella.
Well that's what my daughter says anyway.
My reference to WIND reminds me that the mods are alert today. I didn't call myself an old "man" (I've a bit to go before that), but someone a bit windy.
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I guess this link is as clear an answer as we'll get. Looks like it's real rain and not just a wet road. Thank you - it did take some effort to get here!
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I think that link says a wet road, rather than when it is actually raining.
I posted this question on a french motoring forum, and the answers that came back were as vague as in this thread. They warned of le aquaplaning when the road was wet, but no DVD popped up with an extract from the loi!
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If it helps, I have a t-shirt that reads "Merde, il pleut!"
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It never rains in France anyway! I know, I went there once.
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Hope you're kidding - I missed the ferry last year due to torrential rain in August - had to keep the speed below 50 due to the poor state of the roads.
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> poor state of the roads
In France???? You must really have been on some little back roads. IMHO French roads are much better than ours.
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Thanks Febus, although aimed at bikers that link is really useful. Pity there are no lessons for cars - there are a few other french mysteries concerned with overtaking. It was also news to me that the 110/90 on dual/single highways fell to 100/80 par temps de pluie.
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Febus's French website is interesting.
"To calculate stopping distances, express kph in tens, then multiply it by itself.
eg 60kph = 6x6=36metres, 130kph = 13x13=169 metres."
Then it tells you to multiply by 1.5 in the rain, so 169m becomes 254m.
So surely the motorway speed should be reduced to 2/3 130kph = about 87kph - not 110kph?
These figures include (French) thinking distance.
Your calculations, please, chaps.
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110kph = 11x11 = 121m
In wet x 1.5 = 181.5, so not far off the 169m for 130kmh in the dry. To be spot on you would need a posted speed of 106.145kmh..... So 110 is close enough methinks.
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UK braking distances, per the highway code are:
square of your speed in mph divided by 10; plus your speed in mph. Answer in yards.
(80)^2 + 80 = 720 (extraopolated)
(70)^2 + 70 = 560
(60)^2 + 60 = 420
This gives thinking distance (proportional to speed) & kinetic energy disspiation (proportional to speed squared).
Much easier for the driving test than learning those distances off by heart. I don't suppose I've thought about that formula for well over a decade, yet it came trotting out without trouble!
It has to be said, if it really takes my car half a mile to stop when I'm doing 80mph, I think I'll stick to walking.
A couple of 'law-related' responses from that French 'Honest Jean'. It's not clear that they know either...
Commentaires : Pour la loi, tu respectes le code de la route, tu ajustes ta vitesse pour ta sécurité et celles des autres usagers de la route.
Au delà de la loi, il faut savoir apprécier quand tu dois ralentir ou pas. Ca se voit, ca se sent.
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Better late than never!
Does this answer the question? It's from the Legifrance website, Code de la Route.
En vigueur depuis le 01 juin 2001
LIVRE IV : L'USAGE DES VOIES.
TITRE Ier : DISPOSITIONS GÉNÉRALES.
Chapitre III : Vitesse.
Section 1 : Vitesses maximales autorisées.
I. - Hors agglomération, la vitesse des véhicules est limitée à :
1° 130 km/h sur les autoroutes ;
2° 110 km/h sur les routes à deux chaussées séparées par un terre-plein central ;
3° 90 km/h sur les autres routes.
II. - En cas de pluie ou d'autres précipitations, ces vitesses maximales sont abaissées à :
1° 110 km/h sur les sections d'autoroutes où la limite normale est de 130 km/h ;
2° 100 km/h sur les sections d'autoroutes où cette limite est plus basse ainsi que sur les routes à deux chaussées séparées par un terre-plein central ;
3° 80 km/h sur les autres routes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Codification : Décret 2001-251 2001-03-22 JORF 25 mars 2001.
Anciens textes : Code de la route R10 (al. 2 à 5 et 8 à 11).
Spécificités : Code de la route R432-1, R432-2.
and says that "in rain or other precipitation" the lower limits apply.
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So it requires something to be coming out of the sky, not a wet road. Huzzah, Rebecca!
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Let joy be unbounded, an answer at last. Thank you Rebecca!
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You're welcome, Mike.
I have spent the last 10 years of my working life (and probably the next 10) dealing with *yawn* automotive regulations so can generally find the answer to these sort of questions...
Rebecca
PS Would have put you out of your misery earlier but was on hols.
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