Alternative to Road Tolls - BrianW
The Government keeps repeating the same tired old arguments about congestion and carbon emmissions and the solution being to tax people off the road.

Time for radical rethink.

How about re-introducing fuel rationing, but with every adult being issued with vouchers.
Those who do not have a vehicle or did low mileage could sell their vouchers on the open market to those who required more.
Pensioners and the disabled would sell theirs and use the proceeds for buses, trains, taxis.
Greens could sell their vouchers to buy a bicycle.
Public transport subsidies could be cut out as those who needed or wished to use them would have an extra source of income to meet the cost.
Alternative to Road Tolls - billy25
i`d like to bet that the chancellor would pretty soon tax the income made from the sale of the vouchers :-) on top of which, your fuel would be rationed.
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
It's an excellent idea. But most of the population would not understand it. They would just hear:

"mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble rationing mumble mumble"

and would take to the streets.

And unless the Government introduced it with care, skill, and forethought, it would be a disaster.

So, to summarise, it wouldn't work and everyone would hate it. But I still think its a good idea!
Alternative to Road Tolls - Mapmaker
But I still think its a good idea!


Cos it would free the roads up for you to swank about in your Porch. Cos you could afford to buy extra fuel tokens for lotsofmoney.

>>everyone would hate it.

Except you & me & a few others.
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
you could afford to buy extra fuel tokens for lotsofmoney.


Only if she let me, which would not be a certainty.
Alternative to Road Tolls - frostbite
And unless the Government introduced it with care, skill, and forethought,
it would be a disaster.


I don't think noolabour do care, skill, and forethought.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Citroënian {P}
{rant mode}

Or just sort out public transport so that it's a clean, reliable, comfortable and viable alternative to rushing around in metal boxes.

Just like Prescott said he'd do. But didn't

{rant mode off}


--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
Prescott said that if car usage didn't drop in 5 years he would have failed. His office confirm that car usage went up in the 5 year period concerned.

I have asked his office whether he admits that he is a failure. I get various answers, but all seem to be to different questions. For some reason, they seem unwilling to answer that actual question.
Alternative to Road Tolls - BrianW
Prescott is just a sad joke, a token Old Labour dinosaur to make traditional Labour supporters believe that they have a man at the top.
He is Deputy Prime Minister but does anyone in the World believe that he would step into Tony's shoes if Blair fell under one of Ken Livingstone's bendy buses (motoring link).
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
But nevertheless, he was given responsibility for transport. The current mess may lie at his door, but the manner of and rationale behind his appointment means that those who appointed him are equally responsible.

Let us not forget this come next year.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Duchess
Nice idea but could you issue the tokens fairly in the first place? For some of us, public transport exists only in the form of shank's pony. My nearest bus stop is 1.5 miles away in the next village and doesn't get visisted after 6pm or on Sundays. I need to run a car to get to work to earn money to pay the mortgage to afford to live here.

If something's rationed, a black market starts very quickly that only the wealthy can afford to buy into. Ask your parents/grandparents if you don't believe this.

Other point, what about business and commercial drivers? Would companies get fuel vouchers or would the lorry driver be expected to provide his own?

Personally I think the principle of road fuel tax is the right one - those of us who drive lots of miles pay lots of road tax.

And PLEASE before anyone bites my head off, I did say "the principle" and not "the practice"!!!!

Alternative to Road Tolls - BrianW
"If something's rationed, a black market starts very quickly that only the wealthy can afford to buy into."

A black market can only exist if a supply of a commodity is available outside of official channels. With proper security this would not happen.

As to a fair allocation, base it on (say) 8,000 miles per annum in a vehicle doing 40 mpg. Owners of gas guzzlers doing that mileage would have to buy more from those with an excess, those doing fewer miles or using a more economical vehicle (or no vehicle ) would be able to sell all or part of their issue.

Commercial vehicles/companies could have a quota in their own right.
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
With proper security this would not happen.


Errr, with perfect security this would not happen. Even banknotes are forged from time to time.

The cost of such perfection could be a significant overhead, and in today's climate the impact of such perfection on a range of privacy issues could be significant.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Citroënian {P}
{rant mode engaged again}

Quote=patently
The cost of such perfection could be a significant overhead, and in today's climate the impact of such perfection on a range of privacy issues could be significant.


Welcome to the national identity card scheme.

{rant mode off again}

I'm trying to keep out of this, honest!!
--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
Alternative to Road Tolls - terryb
Or of course we can always pop across the channel and bring back (illicit?) loads of cheap diesel just as at present? Then sell(on the black market) or keep for own use as currently happens with fags and booze.

All in all, not a viable idea I fear. And as someone about to move to a more rural area and whose income is about to more than halve, it's something I wouldn't favour personally either.
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Terry
Alternative to Road Tolls - Mark (RLBS)
>>Time for radical rethink.

Yes. How about the idea of not actually charging any more at all by any measure, and actually investing the revenue that they are already receiving from vehicles and fuel by ones means or another in public transport, better roads, accessible and secure car parks on the outskirts of towns, etc. etc.

How about the idea of not making cars more expensive, but instead making public transport cheaper ?

How about some serious accounting for how revenue from vehicles/drivers is actually currently spent.

How about the motoring electorate remembering who is the boss in this situation and every last one of them making their feelings felt and getting off their moaning butts everytime there is an election of any sort.


Lets not try and find acceptable ways of them charging us more. At least not until they are spending the current revenue the way that WE want given that it is our money and we are their bosses.
Alternative to Road Tolls - frostbite
Grand idea, but then you wake up.

Someone has to pay for George & Tony's Grand Adventures.
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
Wow Mark - the man said radical not revolutionary!

Shall we arrange BR candidates in all winnable seats then? Which do you want?
Alternative to Road Tolls - BrianW
I bags Sedgefield.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Citroënian {P}
Mark(RLBS)
Lets not try and find acceptable ways of them charging us more. At least not until they are spending the current revenue the way that WE want given that it is our money and we are their bosses.


Quite.
--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
Alternative to Road Tolls - Sofa Spud
I think rationing is only going to be acceptable in the event of a genuine fuel shortage situation.

The alternative future for those without a car-hating agenda:
Develop more economical hybrid diesel/regenrative-electric cars.
Increase the production of biodiesel so it gradually takes over from finite oil-well diesel.
Enable more working from home 1-2 days per week where possible.

Cheers, SS
Alternative to Road Tolls - patently
The alternative future for those without a car-hating agenda:


And for our government?


Aww! I wanted Sedgefield. It was my idea. ::[sulk]::
Alternative to Road Tolls - J Bonington Jagworth
"How about some serious accounting for how revenue from vehicles/drivers is actually currently spent"

Absolutely! I'll get the Swine Air tickets now, shall I? :-)
Alternative to Road Tolls - Civic8
I think congestion is the worst. Carbon emmissions. Well I read something that said the white cliffs of Dover sent more gases out into Atmosphere than. All the worlds cars do IN an hour. And recently a certain program talking to a scientist said cars are not the problem. world is changing but climate change is being blamed on the car. This isnt the case. but what is forgotten. Is cars/vans/lorries exhausts are now much cleaner than say 70`s. I think government is as usual looking in wrong direction. Apart from penalising the motorist probably cutting thier own throats. forget rationing thats a no go!
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Was mech1
Alternative to Road Tolls - Robin Reliant
Any government which introduced fuel rationing would find itself the third party for the next 50 years or so.

Non starter.
Alternative to Road Tolls - HF
I am with Duchess - the more miles you drive, the more you pay, and this can only be done by tax on fuel.

Isn't this the way all our other facilities work: gas, electric, food bills or whatever? (I'm leaving out water because we're not all on meters yet but it will come). The more you consume, the more you pay - what is wrong with that?!
Alternative to Road Tolls - J Bonington Jagworth
" this can only be done by tax on fuel"

As is already the case (currently some 80%). It's just that motoring/road use is a cash cow that governments can milk whenever they feel like it.

There is probably a case for making fuel more expensive to level out the playing field. After all, it currently comes out of the ground for free, and that will have to end one day. If HMG really wants to raise more revenue, it could try taxing aviation fuel, which might at least end the nonsense of African states growing cash crops for us instead of food for themselves.

HJ's Chinese fuel thread has a lot more in this vein.
Alternative to Road Tolls - BrianW
I think that you are missing the point of my original proposal, which was to give everybody the right to travel and the means for those who have to or wish to use alternatives to the car the means to do so.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Robin Reliant
That's what we have at the moment, Brian.

Public transport is well short of perfect, but it will never reach the levels of public expectation. People want from a public transport system what they want from the health service. They want it available 24/7, they want it tailored to their own particular needs, and mostly they want someone else to pay for it.

It is one of those services that will always have people crying out for more money (someone elses) to be thrown at it without ever coming near to perfecting it.

And they want it there so that everyone else can use it and leave the roads clear for them to drive on.
Alternative to Road Tolls - Citroënian {P}
People, eh?

Not expecting a perfect world, just an improvement (as promised) on the current situation.

Tax, tax, tax isn't the answer without an alternative. Or maybe it is if you're more interested in revenue than solving problems.

--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
 

Value my car