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Accord or V70 Estate - pd
Any Backroomers got any thoughts on the Honda Accord Tourer v the Volvo V70 (particularly the CDTi v D5)? I know the Volvo is probably classed as more expensive but after discounts the D5 SE seems to be available for about 23k for a new 04 pre-reg which is only about 1k or so more than the Accord Executive.

Currently been using a 2001 V70 170SE Auto which has been comfy and practical but the overall quality and refinement haven't been great. The V70 has some really cheap aspects and while its nice and quiet upto 70, beyond that it all seems to fall apart. It has also spent too much time at the dealer. The 2004 V70's I've driven seem more "together" and more refined.

Had a quick go of an Accord 2.4 VTEC Executive auto and it seemed to be a better quality car than the Volvo but the ride wasn't up to much and I'm not sure it had the overall comfort of the Volvo.

Comments?
Accord or V70 Estate - Happy Blue!
Surely the whole point of an estate is the extra space, so presumalbly the Volvo has the most.

The Honda has by far the better diesel engine and will be more economical and reliable.. However, you can get 03 V70D SE Autos for £19,000 - check out the Daily Telegraph on Saturdays.

In terms of ride, the V70 is meant to be far better, but the Honda is very particular about wheel size. Small wheels look so so but improve the ride. What went wrong with your V70?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Accord or V70 Estate - pd
The Honda, in terms of boot space anyway, doesn't seem to give away much in space to the Volvo. Both are "proper" estates.

As you say, there are quite a lot of deals on new and nearly new Volvos at the moment. In the case of the Volvo, I'd probably avoid the auto as I've found it very poor. It declutches at standstill and when you're off the power and there is a noticable delay (and jolt) when it re-engages. Read any Volvo owners forum and there are packed with complaints about this. The D5 seems to be particularly bad in this respect. The V70 seems to work better as a manaul - and this is from somebody who normally prefers automatic cars!

Neither the V70 or Accord ride well IMO. My current V70 hasn't gone badly wrong - just lots of niggles. Alarm malfunctioning, both front wheels bearings went at 50k, lots of driveline shunt developed from 30k on (almost certainly because of the aforementioned rubbish auto - even Autocar's long term one had the same problem), very noisy aircon the dealer can't cure, lots of exhaust resonance (ditto and a common fault), excessive wind noise from A-pillars, endless blown bulbs which are a pig to replace, headlight height adjuster broke requiring new headlight etc.

The Accord I tried was on 16" but it still seemed a hard ride.
Accord or V70 Estate - Happy Blue!
Cor! My S80 is nowhere near as bad as that.

I have a bit of driveline shunt and the g'box takes ages to find a gear when I move it from Neutral to Drive at traffic lights. But neither of these causes any problems or costs. The only other problem has been an ATF cooler leak that cost £500 to replace.

My wife complains about the noisy a/c, but I discovered that with the climate control on auto, it pumps out fast cold air so it's noisy until the interior has cooled down. It was so fast she closed the vents so making it even more noisy...........

The road tests always said that the V70 was the best riding of the S60/V70/S80 group and I agree.

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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Accord or V70 Estate - pd
The only time I've driven an S80 was in the USA and it seemed pretty smooth ride wise but the roads are different so the comparison doesn't mean much.

You do get into the habit of driving round the auto's faults but I still find the delay annoying when, for example, moving forward in a traffic jam or getting out quickly of an awkward junction.

The things I like about the V70 I really like - the interior design, the seats, decent stereo, good visibility, very good (for non-Xenon) headlamps and a sort of long legged relaxed feel. I've always felt it was a car Volvo either ran out of time or money developing and got 85% spot on then messed up the rest.

Interestingly enough, the press blurb for the facelifted 05 model mentions the word "quality" about 6 times. With air con on mine the actual air con (not the fan) is noisy. It hisses all the time. It's be checked, recharged, checked again and goodness knows what else but its always the same. It cools very well but its like driving with a heavy breather in the car.

Price wise a quick internet search reveals that a brand new 05 model can be had to order (D5 SE) for £23,400 on the road so its not surprising older 03 & 04 models are being priced to sell.
Accord or V70 Estate - Happy Blue!
Are we the only two BR's not watching the Euro 2004 final?!! Actually its on in the back whilst I write valuation reports.

I find that internal appointments of a car very important, as I spend so much time in it. The Volvo has a superb internal layout, very easy to use and with a quality feel, without hundreds of switches like a Merc.

The S80 has a worse ride than the V70, mainly because of lower profil tyres (oh bring back 70 section tyres) and it crashes badly over potholes and other road imperfections. However mine is a 2.9 and IIRC HJ says the 2.4s are better in this regard.. I like a nice 6 cylinder though.

My wifes Honda CRV has noisy a/c as well, but not overwhelming.

Do you consider the height of the drivers seat important. We are selling an elderly but lovely Honda Accord because its too low for the aged parents. Is the new Accord lower than the V70?

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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Accord or V70 Estate - Dulwich Estate
I've got an Audi A4 Avant 2.0 SE multitronic, considered both Volvo, Honda & others but have just ordered a new diesel A4 Avant for Sept delivery even though a facelifted model is due in Jan 05. Give it go - no good as a real estate though.
Accord or V70 Estate - SjB {P}
I can't comment on the Accord, but I drive a 2003 V70 2.4T SE manual with the lowered suspension option and Sachs niveaumatic self levelling, and my brother a 2003 V70 D5 SE auto, with standard suspension.

Both are superb cars.

My 2.4T manual is noticeably the better rider at autobahn speeds(not UK motorway speeds, where there's nothing in it) and on flowing A-roads, and is calmer to drive quickly on winding B roads. Downsides are more bump thump around town, and greater camber sensitivity than brother's V70, especially under heavy braking. Both however are superlative high speed cruisers, with a totally effortless gait, an enormous plateau of torque (Both 2.4T and D5 are at full torque way before 2000 RPM, and stay there), and a quiet and pleasant cabin environment. Both punch past A road traffic with rediculous ease, though I prefer the wider rev-band of the 2.4T. Both (yes, the diesel too) have a gorgeous quattroesque sound track when worked hard, rather than the humdrum boom of a typical four pot motor. Whilst I average 27.5 MPG in what I guess is a fairly typical mix of driving, bro averages well over 40 MPG. He frequently tows a heavy boat, too, and whilst I've not towed anything with my 2.4T (no tow bar!), so I can't make a comparison, I must admit that at this, the D5 auto is fantastic. We both had factory fit Pirelli P6000 225/45x17, and his lasted about 16,000 miles on the front. Mine will last about the same (currently 14,500). Brother's V70 is now knocking on 35,000 miles, and he replaced the P6000's with Pirelli Rosso Corsas that lasted about 5 minutes. No more grip advantage in real world, sane, driving, but appalling wear rates. They were through to the canvass (to his horror when he found out) in about 9,000 miles.

He has had no problems at all with his D5 (including since front and back end rebuild on saying 'hello', twice in the same accident, to a French auto route central reservation at high velocity!) and the only trivial problem I have had was one of the upholstery rings on the back of the passenger seat coming lose when the car was brand new. Fixed in seconds, literally, by my local dealer.

What don't I like about my 2.4 T SE? The aforementioned tramlining under heavy braking, and a rattle (noticeable, because the cabin is so quiet) from the load cover 'cassette' when the cover itself is extended that EVERY V70 suffers from! That's it!

Would I buy another?
Yes, without doubt, though as ours was purchased with long term tenureship in mind, that's unlikely!

For info, Dad has driven a 1998 S80 (one of the very, very, first RHD) since new, and the only unscheduled expense has been a stone smashed headlamp.

If there's anything particular you want to know that I have no covered, please ask.
Accord or V70 Estate - WipeOut
pd,

I've currently got a Volvo S60 D5 auto. I'm looking to replace it soon with the V70 D5 Auto.

I've heard bad reports about the Volvo Geartronic automatic gearbox and I would avoid it. I have the older style automatic gearbox on my S60 and it works well. If you look at vvpsy.com there are lots of owners of the newer geartronic who are unhappy. The S60 shares many components and the same chassis as the S80 and V70.

That said I think peoples perceptions of automatics are unfair. In reality my automatic gearbox nearly always selects the right gear at the right time. It can't mind read, so you just need to give it some help finding the right gear. Many gearboxes "learn" how you drive. So if you drive slow and smooth it will adapt by choosing a higher gear more quickly and gear changes will be smooth. If you drive the car more aggressively then it will stay in lower gears and will change quicker reducing the smoothness of the gear change. That said, the gear change is often far smoother than the most drivers can manage. The problem with "learning" gearboxes is that they can get caught out, if you are driving in a relaxed manner it can take time to re-learn that you want to make progress. Just lock the gearbox in to 3rd and 4th and it will be fine. Also the delay in getting going can be resolved by holding the car on the handbrake in drive, hold the accelerator lightly, and then letting of the handbrake and pushing the accelerator when you want to get out of the junction quick; works a treat!

I've learnt with gearboxes that how you press the accelerator pedal affects the gear change. The same distance travelled on the accelerator but a slow movement tends to lead to no gear change on only one change down. The same distance travelled but pressed quickly causes at least one change down if not two.

In short auto gear boxes need a different driving style. Having read about the problems with the geartronic I would probably buy a manual D5 V70. It's a big engine with lots of torque so shouldn't need as many gear changes.

I personally don't like wide wheel options on cars, particuarly Volvos. I know the fad is wide wheels are best, but it really does upset the ride, and certainly doesn't improve grip in the wet as a wider wheel makes water dispersal for more difficult. I've got 16" on my Volvo and grip is fine.

As for reliability, I've had BMW 5 series before and Toyota Avensis, to my suprise I've found the Volvo to be far more reliable. The Avensis had endless gear box and brake judder problems (no I'm not a boy racer). The BMW had an engine rebuild (due to high sulphur petrol), gearbox problems (automatic oil leaks), coolant problems, and endless electrical gremlins. The Volvo has had one minor problem with a bad connection on the cruise control, and a warning light on the ABS is 40K miles.

I tried the Honda and just didn't get on with it. I prefer the ride, interior design, layout and comfort of the Volvo. I also thought the Accord was damn ugly.

But we're all different and one man's pleasure is anothers hate!

Best of luck car hunting.
Accord or V70 Estate - pd
Many thanks for all the comments. Lots of food for thought. I'll reply to a few (in no particular order as follows):

Tyres: Yes, I'd agree. Am I the only person who despairs at manufacturers seeming inability to make decent riding comfortable cars? I think part of the problem is the engineers design a car around one tyre and then the marketing department ups the size. Larger tyre options are almost always inferior - certainly on unsmooth UK roads. They're noiser, ride worse and usually tramline more. The theoretical extra grip in the dry is normally not noticable in road driving and when the grip does give up the breakaway is less progressive.

Autos: I too, have read lots of bad D5/Geartronic experiences. There are a lot of unhappy owners out there. As far as the general Volvo auto - its OK on the move but at low speeds it is poor. I've driven lots of autos and no other manufacturer has the same problem (including some who use the exact same gearbox) so its Volvo's programming at fault.

Driving position: The Accord driving position seemed OK but it didn't have that instant "comfort" feeling the Volvo has. I got into it straight out of a Boxster so it was unlikely to feel low but it didn't strike me as unusually low. Thinking back though, driving the Boxster over the same roads afterwards I think it rode as well or better than the Accord and wasn't a great deal louder at 80ish (roof up) which is a bit worrying.

I will try and seek out a D5 to try. My main thoughts behind going for the diesel is, obviously, the economy and the depreciation seems less than the frankly rather horrific depreciation of the S60/V70 petrols.

Incidentally, what I really want is a medium/large Lexus estate (just about the only manufacturer I can claim, after 3 cars, absolute total satisfaction with) but the fools don't do one!
Accord or V70 Estate - NowWheels
Am I the only person who despairs at manufacturers seeming
inability to make decent riding comfortable cars?


That's one of my bugbears about modern cars. Even French makers seem to have lost the plot, and joined the rush to make every car ride like a go-kart.

Bring back the Renault 16!
Accord or V70 Estate - SjB {P}
Last night, I took a trip over to see my brother, a trip of 20 minutes along my favourite fast and smooth A-road, and undulating, but often bumpy, B-road.

The choice of weapon was either SWMBO's humble 1994 Pug 306 1.8 Sedan, plush suspension, skinny tyres and all, or the 2003 V70 2.4T, with 225/45x17 tyres and sports suspension.

I took the former, simply because it was parked on the driveway.

Lady luck was with me, and I had a clear run for the whole journey. The Pug had it's lungs wrung out to deliver acceleration that wasn't even close to what the 2.4T delivers without a sweat, but boy was that suspension ace on the bumpy B-road! No comments about speed limits, please, but flying along at a good seventy to eighty, it was like riding on a magic carpet. The incredible thing was when the going got twisty as well as bumpy, it still pointed at the apex as if by telepathy, told me exactly what was going on twixt tyre and road, and clung on like a limpit. The 165 tyres never even yelped once, and it was easy peasy to be so smooooooooth at the helm.

I arrived with the sort of huge grin that it normally takes my motorbike to deliver, brakes mildly smelling and exhaust ticking, looking forwards to the run home...

I've long thought the Pug impressive for such a budget car, especially as it has proven to be so utterly reliable, but until last night didn't realise quite how impressive.

The 307 I sampled in Denmark two weeks ago was a stodgy old tank.
Accord or V70 Estate - SjB {P}
Before I'm corrected by a Pugophile, the tyres are, infact, 175s!
Accord or V70 Estate - SjB {P}
Time for bed as I pressed before adding the second part I wanted to:

Although my V70 with wide low profile tyres and firm suspension is smoother to drive quickly on bumpy and twisty B-roads than my brother's V70 with the same size tyres but standard suspension (his wallows and pitches, whereas mine doesn't), it was amazing how the 306 Sedan with really soft suspension managed to deliver better ride comfort than Brother's 'standard' V70 - no pitching or wallowing - and as much turn in and feel as my 'sports' V70. The best of both worlds.

Being honest, on very (ahem) fast sweeping A-road corners, the Pug is floaty and nervous compared to the 'sports' V70, which feels totally planted, but how Peugeot lost the 'small family car' ride and handling plot so comprehensively after the 306, I'll never know.
Accord or V70 Estate - Malcolm_L
Fond memories of both my 16's - great ride quality, in fact very comfortable to drive if you didn't mind that they rolled like logs on any sort of bend!
Handling was totally predictable though, classic FWD understeer.
Accord or V70 Estate - Happy Blue!
I made the same comment about ride adn tyres in a post yesterdat evening in another thread. bring back Fiat 127s with 135 wide 82 section tyres in 13" wheels. It rode well, and handled beautifully. It raced through the mountains of southern Spain like an Impreza only 25 years earlier and without the cost.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Accord or V70 Estate - barney100
The Volvo has much more presence than the Honda and is a much ''solider'' car. The Hondas have a great reliability record and to be fair have excellent reputations. However the Volvo is a better propsition in my mind due to the all round ability of the vehicle. I tend to notice which cars pass the test of time: you see loads of old 240's going strong but not so many Hondas!