After running three Subarus I fancy a change,(sacrilege) and cannot afford the latest 04 model.
My requirement is a large estate with dynamic driving qualities and reasonable mpg. My 97 Legacy delivers a pretty constant 32/35 mpg, mainly rapid country A roads, but I do not want to sacrifice better mpg for unreliability. My budget is limited to £7k so a Mondeo seems a good alternative, especially in view of HJs recommendation.
I will network with friends to pick up an ex lease or similar, 2 or 3 years old, whose history I know, but in the real world how is the reliability these days, and should I go for the 115 or 130 Tdci model. or maybe a 2.0 litee petrol.
Methinks the 130 could be over budget at the moment.Any alternative suggestions would be appreciated. I have first refusal on a friends 3 year old 320D Se Touring (136 bhp) this Sept and if the price is right I can vacuum pack everything I carry!A compromise on space I know, but the driving experience and residuals over three years of ownership could swing it.Main dealer service costs are irrelevant as I use a local mechanic and obtain parts either online or from a factors. Decisions, decisions.My annual mileage is around 20k pa.
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If you want large, the Citroën C5 estate looks huge, and seems to have a fairly unobstructed load bay
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Thanks No Wheels,
I prefer large to huge! Probably outside my £7k budget and I have an unquantifiable mental problem over French reliability after several years of Japanese ownership. No doubt misguided as I shall soon be informed.
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"No doubt misguided as I shall soon be informed"
So have a look at the 2 Xantia HDi estates on page 2 of the stock list here
www.xm-centre.com/
No connection with XM Centre but I do have a Xantia HDi - 45-50 mpg, loads of space, excellent engine, fantastic ride and so far v. reliable.
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But it's not terribly well built and the depreciation is horrendous (C5).....
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The build quality on our C5 is OK. The quality of the cabin, in particular, is better than is generally reported. The level of equipment is superb and, as they are cheap to buy (even new), they are also tremendous value. The diesel engines are also superb, if there is a better range of diesels in this class of car, then I haven't found it yet. The C5 is yet another underrated Citroen.
If anyone is bothered by depreciation, then buy a used one. If it is kept for several years, depreciation doesn't really become an issue, as it was cheap to start with anyway. As for reliability, well I have been reading about and listening to the tales of the unreliability of Citroens for years. It's funny how our Xantia 1.9 TD refuses to act true to type, even after 10 years.
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I forgot to add, with all of that poor build quality that Citroens are noted for, it has failed to develop one squeak or rattle in the whole of the 10 years too.
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Not even a teeny, weeny one...:-)
Nowt wrong with Peugeot/Citroen diesel engines and hasn't been for many years; they set the standards for others to follow and, in some cases, advance the cause even further.
In fact the Peugeot/Citroen units of the 1990s undoubtedly persuaded many motorists to overcome their dislike of diesel engines and enjoy the considerable benefits, especially that wonderful torque.
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The early 'misfire at 1800 rpm' issues with the 130TDCi seem to have been narrowed down the to the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve -you'll find details on the mondeo.org site, and Ford seem to be fixing them if needed (they've modified the part so it shouldn't re-occur).
There is some (more than I expected) extra space under the floor of the 3-series, and some nice touches like the built in dog guard (useful when you pile the back up to the roof).
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If I had to have a current Mondeo, I would have to have the automatic, otherwise there is nohere for your left foot, apart from cantering up against the carpet which makes it ache and your shoe did into your foot. I also found the smell of the plasticides nauseating, as I did with the older Mondeos. They also seemed to have skimped on illumination of controls which made finding cruise control, mirror and radio controls at night impossible.
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Have to say that in the two years I have had my TDCI I have never had any problems of the nature mentioned above. My only gripes are the wind noise seems a little high and I had to have an alternator replaced (covered under warranty of course). I love the comfort/handling/performance/economy of the car, but it won't suit everyone I suppose.
Just goes to prove once again you need to try lots of different options before deciding which is right for you.
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John,
Your Ford dealer should carry out rectification work to erradicate the wind noise if it's from the door pillars, I believe they change the weather seals.
I'm also told that this is carried out FOC as it is a known problem.
Pete
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Have to say that TDCi is an excellent choice. I do about 18K per year and get nothing but pleasure from mine. Have not experienced any of the gripes others suggest - and the driving qualities are, as you say, dynamic. Never driven the 115; the 130 is all I'd ever need...
Splodgeface
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I agree - I have the 2 litre petrol and it is a dream. Would definitely consider the TDCI in view of petrol prices. Really good fun drive - road holding etc. excellent. Had tracking corrected at Micheldivers and car manages the advertised 130mph (not on UK roads) no problem!
Y
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My son's got the Focus Zetec with the 1.8 TDCI 115PS engine - superb in-gear performance and can shame quite a lot of so called quicker machinery.
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I thought we'd disuaded you from changing your car just for the sake of it!
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18810&...f
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Quite correct Mapmaker.
The BRs did manage to dissuade me back in Jan from changing my Legacy estate, but mileage is now nearing 90k with consequent belt change and costs.I could probably sell it locally for £2500/£3k as it is in fine condition, but I need something with a bit more mid range oomph to get past the caravanners on my daily journey along the A65 and a Tdci may be the solution. As also would one of these new fangled 'chill out' cd's!
Going off on a tangent, anyone know what a really cheap price would be for my friends 3 year old, 80k miles, 320d SE Touring. I thought around £7k.(my budget coincidentally) Have'nt offered it yet as I want to remain on speaking terms and wouldn't wish to insult him (too much).
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I think you'll be lucky ... my guide says a 3-year old 320d SE Touring with 80k has a trade value around £10k. Perhaps just a little less.
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missing 's'
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I am nervous about the TDCi for the simple reason of suspect reliability.
Ford basically 'jumped a generation' when they went for the Delphi system on the TDCi. Its a '2nd Generation' CR injection system and was Ford's first experience of such a system - so they had to learn quickly.
They have had numerous problems with the Delphi system and I would be most reluctant to buy a used model. They claim that most of the problems are now ironed out - but Ford engineers are still making regular visits to the Delphi plant near La Rochelle to try to keep an eye on things......
Significantly, when they wanted a system for Jaguar they went to Denso in Japan (who manufacture a system not unlike the Bosch system). I guess that shows their level of confidence in the Delphi system.
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I am well aware that there were teething problems with the TDCi Aprilia but your assertion of 'suspect reliability' is just scare-mongering. We see so many TDCi's on the road these days that, on balance of probability, the conclusion has to be that the public are satisfied and the car works well... Furthermore the old threads in the BR have dried up; you don't see TDCi's languishing on the hard shoulder of roads; the TDCi is no more or less reliable than any other similar make of car.
Engineers spotted making regular trips to one of their suppliers is only proof to me that they are doing their job properly...or maybe they're doing a spot of moonlighting!
Splodgeface
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2003 Skoda Octavia 1.9SDi CL Estate, 34k, £6,999
Andy
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If your Legacy is worth about £2500 and you have a budget of £7k then put £1k aside for the next year's servicing and use the spare £3.5k to pay for the extra fuel for a long time. Add in the depreciation on the Mondeo versus the negligable depreciation on the Legacy and I think I'd keep the Legacy and enjoy many years of trouble-free motoring. There's probably another 150-200k miles left in it yet.
If you just fancy a change though, then fair enough, but IMHO it's not the logical thing to do.
Good luck whatever you do, hope you buy a good 'un.
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I am well aware that there were teething problems with the TDCi Aprilia but your assertion of 'suspect reliability' is just scare-mongering. We see so many TDCi's on the road these days that, on balance of probability, the conclusion has to be that the public are satisfied and the car works well... Furthermore the old threads in the BR have dried up; you don't see TDCi's languishing on the hard shoulder of roads; the TDCi is no more or less reliable than any other similar make of car. Engineers spotted making regular trips to one of their suppliers is only proof to me that they are doing their job properly...or maybe they're doing a spot of moonlighting! Splodgeface
Well you can take it or leave it. I work in the industry and I know what people are saying. There *are* still 'issues' with the Delphi system used by Ford, I know this because yesterday morning at 11.00am I was having a chat about it over a cup of coffee with an engineer who's recently left Ford and worked on the 'Puma' programme. When you look at the pressures, tolerances and materials used it is really no surprise that there are some problems.
As to your assertion that "the TDCi is no more or less reliable than any other similar make of car." - where is your data to back up that statement? Nearly all of these vehicles are still under warranty and Ford have been struggling to keep up with the repair workload.
I am not suggesting that these vehicles will necessarily breakdown, but their longevity and long-term durability is still a bit of an unknown. I agree that its a great car and they do drive very nicely. If I were sure of the system (or if Ford were using the Denso system on this engine) then I would be very tempted to buy one myself.
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>>where is your data to back up that statement?
I have no data but that is precisely my point about your post - that it is based on impression rather than fact: my assertion is based on the fact that you haven't provided valid data to convince me that the TDCi is less reliable than any other similar diesel on the road.
Perhaps you can get some of this for us in your next coffee break!
Seriously, I don't mean to be rude: if you are close to some real data/evidence, then lets have it! I and many other TDCi owners would be more than interested.
Splodegface
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I can't provide warranty data because that is confidential.
Its pretty much acknowledged in the industry that Ford have problems with the Delphi system. Partly this is because they went straight to a '2nd-Generation' system and didn't have much experience at the design stage. Its also due to internal problems at Delphi Diesel Systems (who *used* to be Lucas Diesel Systems and then went through a hell of an upheaval when TRW sold them to Delphi).
Ford took one heck of a cost hit when they went for Denso over Delphi on the PAG engines - that tells you something....
Anyway, that's my info - take it or leave it.
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Thanks Aprilia
Didn't mean to be rude and certainly don't intend to belittle your insider info which, as ever, is very interesting and useful.
It obviously is an 'issue' but the extent to which it is an issue, for me, still remains debatable...and I judge the situation on the back of all those owners, me included, whose cars seem to go perfectly well.
Lets hope I'm not counting my chickens...
Splodgeface
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Nick,
Thanks. The voice of reason triumphs yet again.
Will hang onto the Legacy unless my pal begs me to take the 320d SE Touring off his hands at £7k!As for the £1000 annual servicing costs...excluding tyres, its only cost me £400 for the last 28 months, which includes new front discs. The 90k belt change will probably cost a few pounds, but should be ok then for another 45k miles.
Will pop in at Aldi tomorrow to look at their £50 cd players as the decision to keep the car has been made for me (again).
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Out of curiosity i visited my local Ford dealer during lunch yesterday, and the Mondeo estate luggage area, with rear seats down,is 1700 litres. By comparison, my '97 legacy estate is 1691 litres(Subaru technical got the info from Japan for me within 24 hours- plaudits to them)so only a half of 1% volume increase.
Very marginal, despite the appearance in my eyes, of the Mondeo looking considerably larger.Looks like the money stays in the bank!
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