The Mobile Phone Thread - Volume 1 - No Do$h
This thread is for the discussion of all things related to mobile phone use at the wheel.

Volume I now closed. For continuation of these discussions, please see Vol. II www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=18...6

This is Volume I. Once we hit around 100 posts this thread will be made \"read-only\" and we will open Volume II.

Usual rules apply; two falls, or a submission. No, hang on, that\'s wrestling. Anyway, you know the drill by now. If you don\'t please read the smallprint:

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No Dosh

mailto:alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk

Enforcement of phone legislation - greenhey
A week or so to go to the new law re handheld phones, and I am pessimistic about its enforcement.
I've just done a local 18-mile round-trip , mid-morning, where for once I wasn't driving so I could take more ntoice of others on the road and their behaviour. In this time I noted 10 people using their phones, including van and lorry drivers .In one case the car was wandering across the road while the driver dialled .If these people haven't learned yet , will they ever?
Apparently their need to have inane conversation is greater than my need for safe behaviour from them.
Given other laws which are regularly flouted, though easier to observe, such as re lights -belts- securing children , what chnace is there of this law making any difference?
Enforcement of phone legislation - Ian (Cape Town)
We've had the law here for a few years now. But the cahances of getting caught are minimal, as there are very few police vehicles on the roads. The traffic officers are normally to be found lurking behind bushes, weilding a radar gun.
Enforcement of phone legislation - PR {P}
Yes but now there is potential money involved they might be quite keen!
Enforcement of phone legislation - jmb
I hope one of the newspapers will be offering a prize for the first photograph of a uniformed police office using a mobile phone driving a marked police car! I saw one turn two right angle corners whilst talking on his phone recently!

From what I have read some police forces don't seem to be fitting permanent AIRWAVE mobile radios in vehicles and just use handheld radios to save cost. These often look identical to mobile phones!

I do know that normal police radios are exempt from the legislation but as far as I have seen there is no exemption for the use of mobile phones.


MB
Enforcement of phone legislation - Dynamic Dave
I've recently installed a handsfree kit in the car and according to the legislation, as long as the phone is attached to the dashboard by a bracket or cradle of some kind (which mine is) I can legally dial phone numbers. Personally I find this more cumbersome and distracting than being able to hold the phone in my hand and dial the number - which will become illegal to do from the 1st of Dec. At least with the phone in my hand (only when I dialled numbers) it was within easy reach, firm to hold and I could dial any numbers without even looking at the phone, whereas now it's on the dash I have to stretch to reach it and have to look at the phone to dial numbers.

I am also unlikely to beat my high score on Snake now either!!
Enforcement of phone legislation - Wales Forester
I am also unlikely to beat my high score on Snake
now either!!


Not while you're driving Dave obviously?!

PP
Enforcement of phone legislation - Onetap
I anticipate that, when the constabulary start enforcing the new law, the idiots will start investing in smoked glass and carry on as before, but with restricted vision as well.

Nothing is foolproof, because fools are so ingenious.
Enforcement of phone legislation - BeRudeNotTo
This has parallels to convincing people in the 1970s/ 80s that driving after 6 pints or without a seat belt tends to kill.

In other words I reckon it will take a generation to get majority compliance; only once it is regarded as socially unacceptable.

Personally, I do not see much risk difference between handheld or not. Unlike talking to passengers, singing to a CD or doing quick radio channel changes, it's the conversation content that distracts. A caller can't see a difficult situation and if it's your boss or a major punter you can't just cut them off....

You only have to consider the number of businesses (mostly dodgy no doubt) based on white vans/ lorries which have sprung out of total reliance on 'mobiles whilst mobile' for their trade. Surely no one believes these enterprises will suddenly cease to exist as of 1st Dec. Legit employers who, behind their official policies, tolerate or even encourage it, may take months if not years to re-adjust what they have come to depend on in the name of "productivity".

One thing no doubt the police have up their sleeve - the officer in the passenger seat simply rings any number that may be displayed on the van, then watches the vehicle carefully!! But then in this daft society, that's probably a no-no 'cos that's incitement to commit a crime....

Sorry chaps, I haven't any answers.
Enforcement of phone legislation - Sooty Tailpipes
I have had a proper Nokia handsfree kit for 18 months, and I admit the few times I tried to use a handheld and drive, I could tell it affected my driving, and was real hard work, both the coversation and the driving were nowhere near up to my usual standard,
With the handsfree, there is none of that!
I have given a lot of thought as to why this makes such a difference, because holding any other object seems to make no difference, and talking to others makes no difference. I really do believe that its just concentrating to hear what the person on the phone is saying over the car noise, compared to sitting with it coming out of the car's speakers is the key. Look how in the 1980s when phones were analogue and rubbish how people couldn't walk properly and use their brick as they had to try and decipher the other person's speach!
Enforcement of phone legislation - Health N Safety
"This has parallels to convincing people in the 1970s/ 80s that driving after 6 pints or without a seat belt tends to kill."

I can recall in the seventies most people didn't get drunk and drive (what is "drinking and driving"?!). Some might have had a touch too much, and so took extra special care (as they would in adverse weather conditions, when they really could do with a new set of tyres, when their brake pads were getting low, when they were tired.......). Some drank and took it in turns to to be the "nominated driver" and risk getting caught (when there were cops on the roads). And some just didn't give a damm.

Has anything actually changed? Rumour has it that the actual numbers of *drunk* drivers has never actually changed over the years?

And what about the car-loads of unbelted kids, never mind adults?
Enforcement of phone legislation - BeRudeNotTo
Of course MOST people don't get drunk and drive, HNS. My point is that back in the 70's a higher PERCENTAGE of drivers didn't give a damn and drove while OTL. I don't remember anyone mumbling about 'nominated driver' back then - if you did you were laughed out of the disco....

Even if your 'rumour' were fact, it would probably be only because the TOTAL number of drivers and vehicles is so much higher today.

OK - you'll never get 100% compliance in belting kids up. But I see much more of that now than 30 years ago. And today's grannies have given up making the traditional excuse about not wearing a belt.

I believe certain things HAVE changed, - that's why I said what I said.


Enforcement of phone legislation - BobbyG
DD, out of curiosity, what kind of kit did you install? I have looked at the one Halfords are doing for £99 and it looks quite good. Speaking to the guy in Halfords today he said its only down point was that the cheap self adhesive phone holder was pretty useless and he recommended using another type eg. the ones that clip into the air vents.

Whilst I was in, a customer came in to complain that the holder had came off his dashboard, probably due to poor adhesiveness on plastic dash. However, he said the sound was great.

Has anyone else tried one of the Halfords kits? Also does anyone know where you can get the kit to install yourself as the £99 probably includes a sizeable figure for fitting, which, by all accounts, seems to be a straight forward plug in job to the rear of your radio?
Enforcement of phone legislation - Dynamic Dave
BobbyG,

It is one of the ones that clips to an air vent and holds *any* phone. The only modification I have made is to use a couple of small cable ties to secure the clips to the vent.

More details about the kit here:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16565&...e
Enforcement of phone legislation - jeds
The most hazardous part of using a mobile phone is dialling the number. This is a lot more distracting when the phone is on a cradle because you have to look down for a longer period of time. Much safer to have the phone up near your line of sight.

The difference between using a mobile and speaking to a passenger is to do with visual clues. For most people, in ordinary circumstances, using a mobile is not really hazardous at all except when a situation occurs. When a situation does occur, we become alerted to the situation and divert attention to the driving. We then naturally feel uncomfortable ignoring the person on the phone and the brain (in some people) starts to divide attention between the two. This doesn't happen with a passenger because we can sense that the passenger is aware of the situation and will allow for it.

Listening to the radio isn't a problem because we know it won't mind being ignored.

Texting is the real problem because you have have to look and concentrate on the screen for a long period. Most mobile related accidents have been to do with texting.

Enforcement won't happen because, thanks to the speed tax camera campaigners, there are fewer police cars on the road and will be fewer still as more cameras are installed.
Enforcement of phone legislation - THe Growler
Try the Philippines, whose nationals it is said make up 30% of the world's text messaging volumes.

Making calls in yer car that's old hat. Texting at high speed is the thing. Mind you, GRowlette can drive with one hand and send a text message without looking at the keypad. Dunno how she does it, it's those long dexterous oriental fingers.
Enforcement of phone legislation - drbe
The ordinary bog standard hands free, with a wire has worked well for me for some years now. Until recently it was a Motorola, but recently I switched to Nokia, both work fine.

May I suggest you buy, or use the kit supplied. Set it to answer automatically; outgoing calls, if you must, can be done by voice dialling.

Tesco have quite a good selection of own-brand kit, at very reasonable prices.

To repeat - the wire version has worked well for me for some time, you can try it out at very little cost.

Regards

Don drbe
Enforcement of phone legislation - Vin {P}
In the past couple of months of daily M3 slog (120-140 miles a day) I've seen two traffic cars, so who exactly is going to enforce the new law?

My estimate is that I see on average one MAJOR piece of illegal driving every day that is going unpunished (Friday's was a lethal, aggressive undertake into a gap about ten feet longer than the undertaking car at 80mph in driving rain), so what hope of there being any Police to enforce this? Mark my words; 90% of the enforcement of this law will be after accidents.

V
Enforcement of phone legislation - Ian (Cape Town)
Mark
my words; 90% of the enforcement of this law will be
after accidents.
V

>>
Fascinating thread, and to return to an above comment, re Drunk Driving, it would be interesting to see how many convictions there are for D&D as 'moving violations' as opposed to 'caught following collisions'. I suspect the latter accounts for the vast majority.
Enforcement of phone legislation - Health N Safety
But as your phone can tell you where you are, and so presumably what speed you are doing, how long before it's telling "someone else"?
Enforcement of phone legislation - Vin {P}
But as your phone can tell you where you are, and
so presumably what speed you are doing, how long before it's
telling "someone else"?


But it's not illegal to make a call from a moving car - e.g. a passenger can use your phone in the passenger seat, so the information would be worthless to the enforcers. However, as argued above, there aren't any enforcers anyway.

V
Enforcement of phone legislation - Health N Safety
> But it's not illegal to make a call from a moving car
> - e.g. a passenger can use your phone in the passenger
> seat, so the information would be worthless to the enforcers.

Nearly as worthless as sending out a NIP to the registered owner of the numberplate on a car photographed allegedly speeding past a camera then?

Or would the powers that be never stoop so low as to send NIPs to anyone registered as owning a phone "caught speeding" on a road, and leave them to prove their innocence if they didn't want to automatically cough up the cash? Next they'll be introducing trial by jury, innocent until proven guilty, speeding fines for dangerous speeding.....
Enforcement of phone legislation - Leon on Derv
Don't wish to hijack this thread, but I totally agree with Ian's comments and those of others, that the prosecutions will come about as the result of collisions.

Across the pond here in NI, if you are in a RTA regardless of its scale if the police are in attendance they will breathalise the drivers of all vehicles involved. They don't need to suspect alcohol as a contributing factor, it is just on the list of things to do at the scene.

How long will it be before insurers are asking is you vehicle fitted with a hands free kit? Answer yes - they interpret it that your concentration is reduced because you make and take calls while you drive hence uping the premium. Answer no - you still make and take calls but you do it with one hand on the wheel hence uping the premium.

Do we need additional legislation. Isn't issue this covered under Driving without due care and attention?

Leon
Enforcement of phone legislation - doug_523i
Who's going to enforce it, the cameras? I expect a fortnight of high profile enforcement and then it will back to normal, ie nothing. They can't/won't enforce two working headlights, which is an obvious problem, how do they expect to police phone use?
Enforcement of phone legislation - madf
Since I live in an area where we only see police once a week - they are stuck in their office- I expect the law will continue to add to the long line of laws on the statute book which are unenforcedbecause of 2 many laws / not enough enforcement problems..

madf
Enforcement of phone legislation - tone
does anybody know exactly what is covered by 'cradle' would a piece of blutack do? if the phone already has the capability to be hands free?
Idiots still using mobiles - v8man
On my travels today to Andover and Midhurst in my big red van I played a little game of 'spot the idiots still using mobiles'.Admittedly usage was well down on pre-legislation days. But, I was heading along the M3 and a silver Vauxhall Omega was weaving across the lanes and slowing excesively. I overtook and low and behold he has a phone glued to his ear. I cannot believe that any driver is still unaware of the new law - or they are exremely arrogant!
Idiots still using mobiles - Davy_S {P}
"I cannot believe that any driver is still unaware of the new law - or they are exremely arrogant!"

People still drink & drive don't they.... it's a case of I'm a great driver everyone else isn't or is it I'll never get caught?
Oops, where did that screw go!!
Idiots still using mobiles - Peter D
It’s amazing how all those who do not use a mobile phone whilst driving can spot the driver who is not driving well due to being on a mobile, yet all those use a phone regularly say it does not effect their driving. Wake up guys, it due to the fact you are not concentrating and you are not aware your speed ierratic, your lane discipline if really off and the distance from the car in front is very viable. Wake up guys and hang up !!. Get a totally hands free kit if you must ( Until they ban them as well ) or just mute or divert the phone.

You may as well get used to it, when they bring in the 3 penalty points that will deter the arrogant users. I would remind all, you are not permitted to send text messages, photographs or log onto the internet. Lets face it sending a text message whilst driving is pretty dumb, the distraction of staring at the tiny screen with one hand dedicated to the key bad is a total no no !, I have just seen a lady parked on a slip road to a company entrance using a mobile, two offences, may be 3 offences, Illegal parking, obstruction and use of a mobile phone, she had not turned the engine off you could see the stream from the exhaust. Well cheer up it’s Friday, drive carefully and enjoy yourself, I am sure that some road users stress level will drop because their phone doesn’t ring. Regards Peter
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - madf
I understand hand held mobiles are now banned if used in cars when driving..

Now I think this has major potential problems of enforceability.

What if the driver held what looked like a mobile but was in fact not one and there was no mobile in the car? Police would have an awful lot of false stops.

(I am not encouraging this but just thinking aloud.. I suspect the law as it stands is rapidly going to be made an ass...)
madf
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
Or what if you were resting your cheek on your hand in slow moving traffic, or scratching your ear, and plod pulls you and there is a phone in the car. They will make the assumption you were on the phone even though you were not.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Mark (RLBS)
Call logs are irrefutable proof either way. Not likely to be contaminated by cloning since a record will be help of which tower was used.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - matt35 {P}
BBC website reports that a woman has been done in Tayside this morning.
Matt35.
(Done for using a phone I mean)
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Nsar
That 2 hour wait for their first collar must have been awful for them....
www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_843175.html
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Nortones2
Just doing their job. But they also found the driver had been drinking allegedly, which is a result.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
Doesn't it cost a packet for the police to get hold of mobile call records?

I can forsee two possible scenarios.

1) Chief Inspectors will see the time taken by their officers in persuing someone who disputes that they were on the phone as being time that could be best used elsewhere.

2) Chief Inspectors will see this as an easy way to achieve targets, and also as a revenue generator, at the expense of other crime, just as greed cameras have apparantly turned out.

Personally I don't use my phone anymore in the car, so I dont care what the outcome is.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Cardew
Madf,
The police have a duty to enforce the law that our political masters decree is necessary. Overall they enforce motoring law with admirable discretion. I cannot understand the mentality of drivers who feel they have the right to waste police time; especially on the mobile phone law that I suspect has the support of most motorists and should not "be made an ass." Accepting that you personally are not encouraging drivers to do such a thing!

If the police thought someone was 'winding them up' by pretending to have a mobile to their ear they could always take action(as they sometimes have) for drinking/eating while driving.

C

Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Ian D
The new law is as good as unenforceable as there are next to no Police on our roads anyway these days; since the introduction of Speed Scameras there are far less Plod on the roads and therefore less chance of detection for any motoring offences including using a phone.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - 8 ball
Agreed, Ian. Passing laws to stop something is one thing; upholding (enforcing) them is another. Wait until the morons in the next road are setting off fireworks in the small hours and try calling the police to have it stopped. I'm not a clairvoyant but I can tell you it'll be a complete waste of time - the same as if you phone to say you've been burgled. Make an appointment for a week on Thursday. This Government is big on 'eye catching intiatives' (remember taking yobs to the nearest cash machine and forcing them to withdraw a fine?) but pitifiully short on common sense. Speed cameras, however, are a different matter: no effort required to bring the lawbreaker to book. Sorry, rant over.
8 ball
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Boff
Wait until the morons in the next
road are setting off fireworks in the small hours and try
calling the police to have it stopped. I\'m not a clairvoyant
but I can tell you it\'ll be a complete waste of
time - the same as if you phone to say you\'ve
been burgled. Make an appointment for a week on Thursday.


I work in a police control room, can I just say that burglary is treated by our force as a priority and deployed to as such; when we receive a call about a break in, especially to someone\'s house, we will normally have someone on their way to it within 30 minutes.

On the other hand, when we receive a call about fireworks being let off then the caller will be politely advised that it is not a police matter (it isn\'t; police have no enforcement powers regarding noise, it is dealt with by environmental health officers) but that if we have an officer available to advise the \'morons\' about consideration for others then we will send them anyway. Incidentally it may be worth considering who are more moronic, those letting off the fireworks or those who ring us on 999 demanding that the police do something about it?

--
My wife says I don\'t listen to her, or something like that
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Rob the Bus {P}
Nothing to do with motoring and apologies to the Mods, but...

>>when we receive a call about fireworks being let off then the >>caller will be politely advised that it is not a police matter

I always thought that letting off fireworks in the street was a police matter. I'm sure I read in the Times that the police do have the power to arrest someone for doing so.

Incidentally, there was a gang of youths in Woolwich just before Bonfire Night setting off fireworks and aiming them at people. The police quickly arrived and dealt with them.

Cheers

Rob

Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Dwight Van Driver
OOhhh Boff - thems porkies?

Fireworks not a Police matter - read Section 131 (1)(C) Highways Act 1980 for offences that Police have power to report.

Contacting NYP, if you read the D and S it very hit and miss, some callers have given up and others left hanging in limbo.
Public deserve better. Time the switchboard was sorted out if you are to get another increase in rates...

DVD
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
When are they going to ban smoking in the car. You can throw a mobile to the floor if you need to respond to something quickly, but you can't and wont do that with a cigarette.

Far more dangerous as far as I can see. And no, I am not antismoking. SWMBO smokes in my car all the time.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - tone
>When are they going to ban smoking in the car. You can throw a
>mobile to the floor if you need to respond to something
>quickly, but you can't and wont do that with a cigarette.

most people dont use the mouth to drive, and in probably the same amount of time it takes to throw a mobile (away from the peddles) you can put the cigerette.

having a cigerette isnt as distracting as having a conversation
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Dynamic Dave
having a cigerette isnt as distracting as having a conversation


It is if you drop it in your lap. AFAIA, no one has ever got burnt in the nether regions by dropping a mobile in their lap.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
most people dont use the mouth to drive, and in probably
the same amount of time it takes to throw a mobile
(away from the peddles) you can put the cigerette.


Anyone know of any smokers who can light up, smoke the thing, flick the ash etc etc, without using their hands. Would do Paul Daniels proud.

SWMBO used to call me from the car, and from the way she was talking I could tell she was smoking. When questioned about how she was driving, the answer was "with my knees". I would hang up straight away. Never fancied hearing the sound of a crash down the phone.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - hillman
What really is the problem? If the driver really wants to chat what is wrong with pulling over? I have seem a young mother (4x4) on the school run trying to cross the A6 from a country lane, on a bad downhill stretch full of 40 mph traffic. Her children needed attention, and so did the person she was chatting too on her mobile in a quite animated fashion.
People used to manage quite well without them.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - billy25
warning to all those of you who may be entering darkest cumbria in the next two months!

quote(from last night's Evening Mail)

>police in cumbria have opted for a zero-tolerance approach towards drivers using mobile phones.
despite national reports that drivers were to be given a two-month grace period, and would not be fined till february,a spokesman for the force said that this would not be the case.

the spokesman said:"the association of chief police officers has told all chief constables that their officers should use their own discretion when upholding the law,that does not mean the drivers will not be fined".

"anyone using a mobile whilst driving a car would face a £30 fixed penalty fine, which could rise to £1000 if unpaid."

unquote.

is there any law about releasing pigeons with leg messages thru your drivers window?.

billy.

Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - GrumpyOldGit
Sorry, but this is another example of how dishonest this useless governement is. They keep passing new laws in the hope that we will be fooled into thinking that they care for us, and that we will believe they are being constructive. Neither is true.

There are already laws in force that the police can use against those stupid and selfish enough to use a mobile when driving.

What is needed is better enforcement, not more laws. It's just political smoke and mirrors!
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - jeds
I agree with para 1 and 2 Grumpy but not sure about the last bit. The blind enforcement route is what has caused the speed camera fiasco. What is needed is good education.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - madf
have to say our local police are very good _ neighbour (85) was not seen, next door neighbour and I went round, dog barking , no sign of life, called police , round in 15 mins (she died in night).

Excellent.

But do we ever see police in main streets / local roads? Once a week?

So chances of stopping mobile phone use in cars is as high as chances of politicians 1. telling the truth, 2. admitting they can't do everything, 3 being realistic...

Personally I never use a phone in a car..
madf
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - PoloGirl
Didn't think we needed another mobiles thread so I'm putting this in here...

There's an email doing the rounds, claiming to expose a loophole in the new legislation. It claims:

"Your phone must be in a cradle, and only need one button pressed to make or answer a call. You can't hold the phone and text, but the new law says nothing about not texting while the phone is in it's cradle, so you still can."

Don't want a lecture on whether it's morally right or not - is it factually right?

Thanks

Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - MrWibble
In a similar way what about fiddling with satnav whilst driving - similarly distracting ?
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - PhilW
One problem is - the Gov pass all these new laws and the poor old Police get the blame for not enforcing them. Like that one about curfews for youths on the street causing trouble - I think that not one curfew has been enforced, but how can we blame the police when they get no extra funding to enforce these laws? In our "village" - more like a town of 7000 pop - you see the police once or twice per year but then 3 duty cops are supposed to "patrol" about 10 such "villages" all the time and they have closed the local police station so these 3 are based in the local town of 50,000 pop. They have their hands full there let alone in our "village". I reckon they do what they can to the best of their ability under very trying circumstances and a very high workload. Is it really the police's fault or the Gov's? Sorry if that's too political - but it is the same under any Gov.
Now speed cameras - that's a different matter!!
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Peter D
Hi Pologirl, I'm afraid you can not send Text or picture messages or connect to the internet whilst driving. The discussion document makes it quite clear as would common sense. Regards Peter
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
In our "village" -
more like a town of 7000 pop - you see the
police once or twice per year but then 3 duty cops
are supposed to "patrol" about 10 such "villages" all the time
and they have closed the local police station so these 3
are based in the local town of 50,000 pop. They have
their hands full there let alone in our "village". I reckon
they do what they can to the best of their ability
under very trying circumstances and a very high workload.


A friend is a copper in Walsall, and she tells me that often there are only 6 coppers out on the streets, in pairs, in a car, at night. Walsall isn't exactly small!
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - eMBe {P}
madf: I take the view that it is akin to the introduction of seat belt laws. It is a law introduced for the benefit of motorists and the general public. If after 3 or 4 years, it becomes second nature not to use a mobile phone whilst driving, then it will have been worthwhile. As with all laws, their introduction is supposed to benefit the law abiding society; but you will always have those who will break the law.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Thommo
I think the truth comes in the structure of the fine. £30 or £1000 if you contest it. Why should the fine multiply by 3,333 (re-ocurring)% because you wish to have your day in court? The offence has not changed, the danger has not changed.

Clearly most people when hit with the £30 fine will pay up guilty or no rather than risk the consequences of taking the matter to court.

These things are bringing the law in to contempt. I appreciate that this is not of the officers doing and they are following the lead of their political masters and that it is akin to blaming the barman for the price of the beer but human nature is that you will blame the person enforcing the rules.

Do I believe that talking on a mobile phone whilst driving is a good idea? Of course not but please explain to me how this is any different from having a conversation with someone sitting in the passenger seat?

The police have few friends left as it is, I don't think they can afford to lose any more...

Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - eMBe {P}
.. please explain to me how this is any different from having a conversation with someone sitting in the passenger seat? ... >>


Thommo - do a search using the forum search on the right, and you should find the answer. I know because I have posted it many times before, but have given up reposting and trying to educate those who refuse to believe in proven science.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Thommo
Starting from the assumption that you are right and then looking for any evidence to prove you are right and ignoring any evidence that proves you are wrong is not proven science it is propaganda.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - pdc {P}
Hows-about this for two radical ideas.

1) as newer handsets are now GPS aware, and thus able to sense their speed, why not prevent them from being able to make/receive calls over a certain speed? So what if passengers can't make calls, they should be happy with the company of the driver!

2) force car manufacturers to fit signal blockers in and around the drivers chair!

Oh for the good old days of queuing at the smelly red bt phone box when you wanted to call home mid journey
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Thommo
Hopefully they can calculate their speed, if they could sense it that would be impressive but rather frightening...

Sorry, just bored. Better do some work...
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - eMBe {P}
I can only repeat that it is pointless trying to educate those who refuse to believe in proven science.

It is enough to say that "Driving without due care & attention" is a good enough catch-all to stop dangerous drivers talking to their passengers, or lighting up thier fags, or applying lipstick, or tuning radios, or playing with their sat-nav, gazing at their navels, etc. etc.

I feel I must add this rant, though:
We do not live in a perfect world.
Not all laws are drafted perfectly or are necessary (keeps the law profession and civil service in a job).
Law abiding people in any Society lives by rules and regulations that are appropriate for them:
In Germany, you can drive legally at 100mph, or even be a cannibal (and in some other countries too).
In the USA, you can carry a gun but you cannot buy alcohol until you are 21 and in some states the maximum speed limit is 65mph.
In Hawaii, the age of consent is 12 and you can use a hand held phone while driving.
In some countries, driving is not permitted if you have drunk any alcohol.
Seat belts are compulsory in the UK but 99% of cars are scrapped wtihout the drivers ever having had the benefit of their protection - because they were never needed! What a compulsory waste of money to protect the driver from self-harm. Same applies to Air-bags. Let those who are safety conscious have these items in their cars because they choose to have them.
On UK motorways, there are hundreds of drivers breaking the speed-limit every second of the day.
In the UK, there are no laws banning Merchant Bankers from having a Jodrell Bank while driving.

We live in an imperfect world, and need stupid laws to tell stupid people how not to behave stupidly.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - joe
Thommo. Not sure I agree with your maths, but I agree with your general point. There has always been a risk that if you contest a fixed penalty notice and wish to have you day in court, you can end up with a much bigger fine if you lose. This is obviously to prevent the courts getting jammed up. However, the levels here (£30 and £1,000) come perilously close to meaning that the right to appeal is a sham. I certainly wouldn't take the risk, even if I was 100% sure I would win. That's not justice.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - Thommo
Sorry put the comma in the wrong place. What can you expect from an accountant.
Hand Held mobile ban unenforceable - madf
"It is enough to say that "Driving without due care & attention" is a good enough catch-all to stop dangerous drivers talking to their passengers, or lighting up thier fags, or applying lipstick, or tuning radios, or playing with their sat-nav, gazing at their navels, etc. etc."

Precisely.

So why add to the statute book's long list of unenforceable laws.

Anti social orders - rarely used. Dangerous dogs- only used after a dog has injured some human.

20% of all crimes are solved..

So instead of concentrating on solving the 80% our dear politicians add another set of laws..


It is clearly just absolute muppetry.. the logic is "passing a law will solve the problem"

Did anyone read in the US states are removing laws making wearing crash helmets compulsory? Freedom of choice to kill yourself.

We have cover-all laws here and they are not used for common sense problems..







madf
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - Flat in Fifth
Since Monday has anyone else noticed an increase in the number of vehicles stopped in dozy places while the driver is on the phone?

Maybe it's just me but I seem to have picked up quite a few

Opposite double white lines and on a bend was the worst example but quite a few more.

The sad bit is that these individuals are probably feeling extremely virtuous as they are obeying the law, only to offend in other more serious ways.

Is there any chance that the NHS can come up with a common sense pill?
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - M.M
Spot on FiF, even in the mile to our village there is already mostly one car stopped still on the NSL road as the driver chats.

Much easier to bring in a law than teach common sense.

What will we have next, ring-tone sensing Emergency Brake Assist with ABS for that all-so-urgent call from the good lady asking for a pint of milk when you get fuel on the way home.

If we all bought milk with our fuel "just in case" it would save 20% of mobile call traffic.

M.M
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - Flat in Fifth
If we all bought milk with our fuel "just in case"
it would save 20% of mobile call traffic.


Living in an area of the community which is quite farming oriented I can vote for that!
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - Clanger
I've just discovered Mrs H's mobile still on charge from last night so she's gone to work without it, due back 9-ish.

Help! Panic! When do I cook her supper for, and how do I get the daily shopping list? Better get down the petrol station for a tank of milk and a pint of diesel.

Hawkeye
-------
Complete beginner at home management
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - borasport20
Is there any chance that the NHS can come up with
a common sense pill?

FiF - if it did, we Backroomers would have much less to talk about, wouldn\'t we !


Bora - what Bora ?
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - Stargazer {P}
Exactly! This morning centre of Woodstock, car parked facing oncoming traffic on double yellows and hazard lights flashing with driver engrossed in a phone conversation. Only reason car was nor parked on own side of road......similar double yellow lines but there was already another car 'parked up' with phone in use!

Road was reduced to single narrow gap. Buses, lorries and everyone else backed up slowly filtering through in both directions.

Ian L.
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - GroovyChick{P}
In the past two days I have had three cars infront of me pull over from the middle lane on the M60 onto the hard shoulder. In all cases they put their hazards on and continued to drive normally until they could get into lane one and then pull over. Never seen this happen at all before just seems a bit of a coincidence to happen now. Maybe their phones were ringing!!??

GC
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - cockle {P}
In the past two days I have had three cars infront
of me pull over from the middle lane on the M60
onto the hard shoulder. In all cases they put their hazards
on and continued to drive normally until they could get into
lane one and then pull over. Never seen this happen at
all before just seems a bit of a coincidence to happen
now. Maybe their phones were ringing!!??
GC

>>

Obviously their handsfree kits have the optional extra of the hazards flashing when the phone rings... just in case they can't hear them ringing over their CD players. ;-)

Cockle
Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - Leon on Derv
Agree with GC, have seen drivers carry out almost emergency stops to take calls to their mobile. Yeah, what is it with having the hazzards on, guess that provides justification for stopping in the most ridiculous locations.

I have still seen other motorists who have obviously managed to buy a "Car Free Kit" at the weekend which allows them to put their car on auto pilot while they hold their phone to their ear to take calls. Evidently the top of the range "Scott Free Kit" makes you and your vehicle totally invisible to those 'enforcing' this law.

Leon

Stopped vehicles since mobile ban? - madf
I imagine we will soon have court cases for motorists stopped on hard shoulders of motorways - illegally - whilst answering mobile phones.

If so why not ban them!:-)
madf
carphone kits - ajsdoc
Does anyone know roughly the cost of having a carphone kit professionally installed? Also, are there any national companies that do installations (I'm sure they will be busier at the moment with new legislation). Final question, can anyone explain how a "bluetooth" kit will work - particularly will this allow the same carkit to be used in future even if I change my phone, albeit to another bluetooth enabled model?

Thanks in advance for any answers,

Andy.
carphone kits - Dude - {P}
Halfords are supplying and fitting car phone kits for £99.99, - having called into their local branch on several occasions recently, have noticed their installer seems to be working flat out !!!
carphone kits - No Do$h
Bluetooth uses a short range (max 10m) radio transmission to connect kit rather than cables. You can leave your phone in the boot or the glovebox and it will still talk to your headset.

Blueooth is a universal standard and so a nokia bluetooth headphone should work with, say, a Sony Ericsson 'phone. The carkits should also be universally compatible and should support all common bluetooth functions.

That said, there have been universal systems in the past that have become, how shall we put this, less than universal as products have developed.

A quick look on the manufacturers' websites should confirm the compatibility of individual products. I was a little concerned to see the Nokia site refers to specific models for its latest bluetooth in-car kit and didn't feature the 6310, which does have bluetooth. I intend finding out if the 6310 is compatible (it should be, or Nokia have made a mockery of the new technology's "universal" claims, something they have spent a fortune on developing with other manufacturers.)
carphone kits - PoloGirl
Does anyone know of a phone cradle that will hold an open clamshell phone? I've just ordered an O2 X1 but the cradle I've got at the moment isn't going to fit it.

carphone kits - No Do$h
They tend to be model specific for clamshell type phones. Try Kondor and Parma, both manufacturers of reasonably priced aftermarket 'phone kit.
carphone kits - henry k
I intend finding out if the 6310 is compatible (it
should be, or Nokia have made a mockery of the new
technology's "universal" claims, something they have spent a fortune on developing with other manufacturers.)

>>
I too am interested in the 6310i. Please keep me posted.
Got Bluetooth in sons Focus.
I have Nokia old style fully installed Nokia kit with 6210?
I understand the 6310i is the last model of this size so if I get one it fits the old Sapphire and will also work in the Focus thus avoiding a new wired Nokia holder.
carphone kits - Sooty Tailpipes
Some car have a 14-pin standard VDA connector somewhere behind the dash, which is for a car kit to plug into using a carkit to VDA adaptor. This interfaces the audio, mute, volume with car audio/steering controls etc..., provides anteena signal and power.
carphone kits - BobbyG
I know that I have vested interest in this but since its topical to the thread, Safeway petrol stations are selling a basic hands free kit for only £4.99.
Loudspeaker plugs into cigarette lighter, cable runs from it to phone and clamps a "amplifier" onto the earpiece which transmits the sound back to the loudspeaker. There is no extra microphone, just the one on the phone.

I thought they would be carp but tried one out at 70mph on the motorway in a Mondeo and could hold a conversation no problem!
Kit also comes with a cradle to clip into air vents to hold phone.

Similar type product is available in carphone warehouse for £20.
carphone kits - Mondaywoe
I bought one of these cheap ones yesterday - just plugs into the cigarette lighter and a pickup clips over the phone's own speaker. I tried it this afternoon and was most impressed! You can hear the person talking on the little speaker no bother and they seem to hear you just fine - even although my phone was lying on the passenger's seat! I had planned on wiring up a separate mic near the top of the door - even bought a 'special offer' one which I planned to cut up and rewire - but I don't think I'll need it. I haven't tried setting the phone to auto answer yet - but that would seem the best idea.


Graeme
carphone kits - Nsar
I got three professionally installed kits OEM Nokia, fully plumbed in, radio muting etc for £160 each fitted, inc VAT. Mine is A1, wish I'd done ages ago, but I can see it affecting the handset market, as I'm not going to change my handset as i'll have to switch car kits too.
carphone kits - Blue {P}
I've got the Nokia Bluetooth car kit which I previously used with a Nokia 6310 and it worked no problem, I then changed handsets to a Sony T610 and this also works fine, excellent for me as it saved forking out for a new car kit, especially as I try to change my phone once a year where possible.

The kit itself is brilliant, just set up the voice dialling on the phone, most can do at least 10 names under voice, then there is only one button to push and you're away. Sound comes through the car speakers (optional extra) and the quality is superb, don't have a clue what the little speaker that comes with it would sound like though.

One tip which I can offer is to (carefully) save the 999 number in your phonebook and apply a voice dial to it, that way if you ever need it in the car you can dial quickly without having to dig your phone out of your pocket/bag/car boot. I have used this for real once and it worked straight away, the control button is located in easy reach so I think it would be quite useful after even a bad accident, although hopefully I'll never have to test it! Also, the phrase "nine nine nine" is quite distinct, and not easily confused with "home" or "dad's mobile" by the handset so it's quite safe to have stored.

Blue
carphone kits - Dynamic Dave
and a pickup clips over the phone's own speaker.
I haven't tried setting the phone to auto answer yet - but
that would seem the best idea.


Graeme,

If it's a Nokia, it will only auto answer if a hands free kit is plugged into the jack socket at the bottom of the phone. However, if you clip the pickup onto the earpiece of a portable hands free kit instead of the phone's speaker, then it will work.
carphone kits - Blue {P}
One other point, aren't those little headset things not classed as hands free kits and therefore now illegal in the car?

Blue
carphone kits - Dynamic Dave
One other point, aren't those little headset things not classed as
hands free kits and therefore now illegal in the car?


Nope. The law only states that you are not allowed to hold your phone. It should be fitted in a cradle. Portable earpiece hands free kits are still permitted as you don't need to hold the phone to use them.
 

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