Nottingham. Why? - pdc {P}
Went to Nottingham last night to see The Human League. Has been a few years since I was last there, since girlfriend left Loughborough uni. The roads have certainly changed since I was last there.

I have just one question. Why the 24 hour bus lanes? Does the city think that it is London? It was most gratifying to see someone who thought their Fiesta is classed as a bus get pulled by the law. Couldn't resist giving a toot of glee as I passed.
Nottingham. Why? - Robert J.
Think yourself lucky you didn't have to come when the new tram lines were being installed- utter chaos.
Nottingham. Why? - pdc {P}
Confused me when I was trying to park at the car park under the Governtment Regional Center, next to Rock City, as there was a tram terminus that didn't used to be there. I nearly ended up on the tracks!
Nottingham. Why? - PhilW
Certainly was - but the tram lines are very decorative - and who knows? One day we might even get to spot a tram on them!
Nottingham. Why? - Sooty Tailpipes
A n extreme left-wing unitary authority, which openly seeks to punish the car user to make communal-for-profit (public) transport more attractive...

Nottingham. Why? - hxj

Also rumoured as the Traffic Light capital of the world, turns out they were made in the city!

The quicker they get the other cars off the road the better in my view, should take at least 10 minutes off my commute each way!
Nottingham. Why? - Sooty Tailpipes
I have worked at the same place in Nottingham for 6 years.
My morning commute has gone from 17 minuyes to 40 minutes.
This has happened in invrements as each "Road Improvemnet Scheme" has been deployed.
Bus lanes for non-existent buses, SCOOT (induction loops for buses and cycles), replacing zenra crossings with Ostrich crosssings, pinching of junctions, delay fates (ytaffic lights for no reason just stop you half way along a road) The lights which you used to think someone on your side was in the control centre helping the traffic flow, have now been taken over by extremist drug user anarchistswho lounge around pressing buttons to cause maximum delays (sooo diverse)
We have a new Tram system which has caused years of mayhem, while being built and has not yet carried a single passenger because it's so riddled with engineering blunders. It has cost every man woman and child in the city £200 to be built.
The schools are given videos for the kiddies to do projects on, I obtained a copy, its sickening anti-car propaganda, it is cartoons which just show cars belching acrid smoke and making everyone cough and ill, and then a bus will come along with a pair of doves gliding over head, and the noisy car engine are replaced with feel-good touchy feely sound effects and a rainbow appears and everyone's happy, it really is that bad and goes on for 30 mins.
Here is an example of the kind of hate-filled trash......
Nottingham. Why? - Morris Ox

Nottingham may be some things but it just isn't an 'extreme left-wing' unitary authority. That's a fantasy-land political cliche and it doesn't come within a country mile of accurately describing an authority which has partially handed over control of strategic development to Nottingham Regeneration Ltd.,a body dominated by business people.

But, to get back to the issue. The 24-hour bus lanes are supposedly because it makes them easier to enforce. This is, as a senior member of the City Centre Retailers Association observed in print recently "utter tosh". It also flies gloriously in the face of the fact that the vast, vast majority of shoppers visit the city by car, the fact that the bus services have recently been scaled back because they can't get enough drivers, that employers are already very frustrated by congestion - which this won't help one jot.

The tram? It's not engineering blunders that have delayed it, but an over-ambitious, under-managed procurement schedule. This is a new project for Nottingham, delays were inevitable, the schedule didn't anticipate any. It's reckoned it will take out about 2.5% of traffic in the city centre. What's Nottingham's annual traffic growth? You've guessed it...

If reducing city centre traffic was a cornerstone of the tram vision then the money would have been better spent on an inner city ring road as much of the congestion stems from people travelling through the city rather than within it.

In terms of its general attitude to traffic Nottingham could certainly be better, but it's no Oxford...yet!
Nottingham. Why? - PhilW
And for all its faults, my wife and I drive to Nottingham rather than our much nearer city of Leicester to shop, have lunch etc because it is so much easier to get into, park etc than Leicester. I leave you to judge the state of traffic management in Leicester! (admittedly I don't commute to either during rush hour so that may make a difference)
Nottingham. Why? - Jim M
For those who remember Boguish I last saw him (2-3 months ago)on the BBC Nottingham web site carrying the fight to the pc driven transport lobby. Still the same style as before but mods on site seem the let him get away with it.
Nottingham. Why? - Obsolete
FYI Bogush was banned from the Beeb sites.
Nottingham. Why? - Mark (RLBS)
And is alive and well cutting and pasting bits from the sites which banned him into his own site - I'm not really sure why.
Nottingham. Why? - BB
I have lived in Nottingham for over 5 years and I dont think that it is too bad, (apart from when the first phase of tram tracks were going down- chaos).

My main gripe is the M1 between junctions 26 and 24 (East Midlands Airport turnoff). Complete and utter car park. Bad motorway design and queues evry night on my way home from work. Why oh why did they decide to have 3 major routes in and out of Nottingham converge within a mile of each other on the M1?
Nottingham. Why? - bradgate
BB - I think you will find that the distance between M1 J26 (Nuthall) and J24 (EMA) is at least 12 miles!!

Agree about the congestion, though. There is a plan to widen the M1 through the East Midalnds, from J21 (Fosse Park) all the way up to J26, i believe. Will take a decade, if it happens. Don't want to imagine how bad the congestion will be by then...
Nottingham. Why? - patpending
Last time I went into Nottingham was by bus, it was this year though, was it THIS YEAR that pdc went to see the Human League? sounds like a travelogue and no mistake....

The bus was often held up for minutes at individual stops as the driver took the fares. a conductor would speed the bus right up, make it more attractive and fill the bus lanes a bit...

the M1 at Kegworth has been repeatedly enlarged, I predict that a 15-lane M1 would not beat congestion but just cause it...unless there are tolls...

Anyway, Nottingham has a history of trying to keep motorists out. Remember the Lilac Leopards?

Nottingham. Why? - malteser
I have a "claim to fame" in Nottingham, which, when I lived there for 7 years from 1957 to 1964, was a great place for a young chap to enjoy bachelorhood.
Anyway, my dubious claim to fame is that very early one Sunday morning, on my way to pick up a friend to visit Cadwell Park, I came just a little too quickly down the road at the side of the Council House, swung the small wooden steering wheel of my stiffened suspension A35 to the left and finished upside down in front of the left hand lion! A quick flip back onto the wheels, a couple of pints of oil and off we went in the now battered motor to enjoy a days club racing at one of the trickiest little circuits in England!
A nosy "early am" busdriver reported me - cost £30 and 3 points for dangerous driving!
"Rude, crude and socially unacceptable"
Nottingham. Why? - pdc {P}
Last time I went into Nottingham was by bus, it was
this year though, was it THIS YEAR that pdc went to
see the Human League? sounds like a travelogue and no

And John Foxx, their support, singer with Ultravox prior to Midge Ure, seems to have a passion for transport. Almost every track was to do with driving, such as "No-one's Driving", "Plaza", "Crash & Burn", "Drive" and "Overpass (Underpass)"

Nottingham. Why? - patpending
JOHN FOXX! I saw him on the Subterranean Omnidelic tour! I was living in France when he was doing the Golden Section tour and very nearly took the train and ferry to see him in Colchester.

but didn't.

He was interviewed on Centre Radio* once, the interviewer didn't have a clue...

sounds like a great concert. hope you had a great time.
Um no wonder there are so many BUSES in Nottingham [returning to topic]


* (Leicester's apparently short-lived answer to Radio Trent)
Nottingham. Why? - BB
Hi Bradgate,

My post wasn't that clear really, I was having a bit of a moan about junctions 23a - 24 where the A453 and A42 join / exit the M1 by East midlands airport.
Nottingham. Why? - pdc {P}
But, to get back to the issue. The 24-hour bus lanes
are supposedly because it makes them easier to enforce. This is,
as a senior member of the City Centre Retailers Association observed
in print recently "utter tosh".

It's my observation that more people fail to drive in the bus lanes outside of the lanes operating times, than drive in it during the operating hours. I fail to see how they can not understand a sign that says "Bus Lane 4pm - 7pm" and then hoot at me when I am in said lane outside those hours. Muppets!

Nottingham. Why? - Thommo
The point about avoiding traffic chaos towns is a good one. People around my home town, Northampton, drive 20 miles to shop in Milton Keynes instead of 5 miles to Northampton. Due to chaos in the town centre and draconian parking wardens who issue tickets for being a foot over the bayline, ticket upside down, disabled permit the wrong way up, etc, etc...

Result Northampton town centre is dying, now THAT is solving the congestion problems...
Nottingham. Why? - pdc {P}
I used to drive 50 miles to Nottingham, from Stoke, to shop at Chirstmas, just because it's a nice place to shop!
Nottingham. Why? - v8man
How do motorcyclists fare with tram tracks to contend with?
Nottingham. Why? - Sooty Tailpipes
Much better than the trams, which are having big problems with traction on slopes, and the wheel profiles are all wrong, the points are causing a jolt because of the wheel flages hitting them. The trams also hit the platforms as they stuck out too much. They keep derailing.

SPEED KILLS! doesent apply to trams apparently, even though metal on wet metal with no steering make them more unsafe.

All the trams are having to have new body panels as it's too easy for youngsters to hitch a lift on the outside as the tram traverses the ghettos (which is what it does so it got ERDF funding)

What a disaster, why can't they just spend the money on the form of transport most workers (taxpayers) use? CARS!

I had to catch the bus to work recently, due to car at the bodyshop, well, the man in front was crawling with these litt;e white lice! and I had to pay more than I do in fuel for the privelage , and waste two hours a day at bus stops or walking to and from them.
Nottingham. Why? - muckybob
I moved out of Nottingham because of the traffic problems although I still work there - now I live in the heart of the Peak District and (as long as I leave early enough to miss the traffic) it takes less than an hour to drive the 50 miles to work, and slightly over an hour to drive home. Parking in Nottingham is a problem though. The council have made it quite clear they don't want me driving in to clog up their streets, so as a point of principle, I do not spend any money on shopping in Nottingham.

This tram is a waste of time too - once its running I could use the Park and Ride to leave the car, wait for one of the 2-per-hour trams, travel for 25 minutes and pay for the privilege, or just carry on in the car for about 7 minutes and park close to the city centre for free.
Nottingham. Why? - Welliesorter
It's my observation that more people fail to drive in the
bus lanes outside of the lanes operating times, than drive in
it during the operating hours...

For what it's worth this is a very common cause of driving test failure for failing to keep left.
Nottingham. Why? - owen
Yep, failed my m/cycle test for that. Only ridden 50 yards.
Sheffield. Why? - pdc {P}
They've gone and done it in sheffield too, another city I used to visit weekly. 24 hour bus lanes. Do any bus companies actually run a 24 hour service?
Sheffield. Why? - Obsolete
Anyone would think some councils were sponsored by bus companies, or had bus company directors as councillors.
Sheffield. Why? - Morris Ox
It probably does seem like that, not just because of the old municipal involvement in bus companies, but because councils do tend to bend over backwards to help what they still consider to be a public service for those members unable to afford a car (one which has less ebvironmental impact - in theory).

But 24 hour bus lanes? No. They offer little tangible benefit to the bus service, considerable hindrance to the mode of transport favoured (not necessarily by choice!) of the majority of people who work in or visit cities.

Sheffield. Why? - matt35 {P}

I just noticed there are some answers to this - thought it was a rhetorical question.
Sheffield. Why? - Morris Ox
Just because you're in thw crowded south...
Sheffield. Why? - matt35 {P}
Can't argue with that - it's not just the traffic that is thick....last Sunday a local guy reversed into a car boot sale and flogged his engine.
Sheffield. Why? - Orson {P}
Sheffield are just preparing to lose some bus lanes, as they have screwed things up for too long on some of the "Gold Routes" into the city centre. For the effort of a few buses, traffic backs up about a mile at peak times. Though I live here, I don't remember any 24 hour lanes, thoguh I may be wrong.

Sheffield. Why? - pdc {P}

heading from Meadowhall towards City Centre, says "At All Times" under the bus lane sign.
Sheffield. Why? - Orson {P}
pdc - that would explain it. I never go out to Meadowhall because every time I do, my credit card blows up, especially if the soon to be Mrs O is in the car...

Nottingham. Why? - BrianW
In London each bus lane has a different operational time (07.00-10.00; 08.00-10.00; 07.00-12.00; 07.00-19.00; 24/24) and the signs giving the times are well into the lanes.
So most people avoid them 24/7, which reduces the capacity of every main road into and out of the capital to one lane.

Value my car