How old is the 3 you want to trade in? The guides are sometimes optimistic, sometimes pessimistic, about the real value. Don't forget that the dealer has to make his margin somewhere, but he could do the car for £13k as long as he only paid £3400 for the trade in, etc...
In the end, the only thing that matters is the cost to change. The 0% finance is likely to be centrally funded by Toyota, probably with no alternative offer, so that shouldn't really be a consideration for the dealer in arriving at the bottom line.
You may find that you would get very much more privately; if the 3 is an E36 old shape, however, I'd jump at the deal as prices for those cars are currently all over the place.
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I'm interested in how much to try to knock off screen prices myself. As someone who hates the whole haggling thing is there any rough guide (eg 5-10%) that one should aim for. I expect the answer will be different amounts for different cars, but surely dealers must generally add a fixed percentage over what they will be willing to accept. Does anyone know if main dealers are issued with guidance as to how much to "add on" to then allow negotiation?
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Sorry, there is no single answer as you suspected. Look at the prices the various brokers are doing in the "Best deals" section. A broker will easily do £3500 off a Mondeo but £2k off an Avensis is excellent going. And of course some dealers are interested only in fleet, or Motability, or staff sales, or finance where they sell to an amount per month and not the cash price...
Any discount at all off a BMW from the dealership is a result!
And things like free extras (which may be sold at huge mark ups) or a generous/stingy part exchange mean that each deal is unique and the secret is not to let any one element provide more profit for the dealer than it needs to.
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Should make it clear that the above applies to new cars. Used cars are even more complicated because of factors such as age, mileage, colour, warranty, extras, source (i.e., franchises can be expected to charge more and there's no way around it, but they may be your only option for low milers) and condition. Then the question is not 'how much off' but 'how much is this car worth' - i.e., can you get it cheaper elsewhere, given the value of the whole deal, or can you get more for your money?
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From what I've found its best to go forearmed with the best internet prices. When I started talking to the dealer all he wanted to talk about were Toyota list prices to start off with and the whats your best price ploy didn't work until he had hard evidence of what I could get.
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The car is a 1998 S E46 model and so has a 1.9 engine. It was the first of the new shape to appear. From the prices the dealer is quoting at me I think he thinks its a 1998 E36 model which would be a lower trade in price. He thinks the list price was £19K originally when it was more like £21K. The AA has a link to Glasses and the figure I got was for a 1999 S (Jan) E46 as it doesn't have a 1998 S price. Mine was first registered in October so there can't be much difference.
As well as offering me the interest free deal he also offered me an APR deal. Toyota are offering £1000 towards your deposit if you take their finance. He would then have given me the car at £14500 inc £1000 contribution. Same PX of £5750 but less cash £1750 with balance of £7000 funded over 3 years at 11% APR approx, which worked out £130 more expensive in total than the 0% finance deal.
I still think there is some scope for manouver on PX especially since the second dealer was prepare to offer £6300 as his starting price.
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On the finance side, the dealer will only get what is called a "doc fee" from Toyota for the 0% deal, typically £50. On any other deal there will be some kind of split on the finance profit with Toyota's finance arm.
Given that you can get personal loans at an APR of 6.4% presently, the extra 5.6% you quoted will usually be split along the lines of 75/25 with the lion's share going towards the dealer's profit. The dealer will actually be working off a much lower base rate than that, but in simple terms those are the kind of rates that are around.
With £7k over 3 years, the extra profit to the dealer is going to be somewhere in the region of £700-£850, (the margin from dealer to dealer will vary quite considerably). They are also likely to qualify for a "volume bonus" on standard finance packages, where they receive an extra rebate if they shift enough £££ on non-subsidised rates by the end of the quarter.
No Dosh, aka Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Sent an email to HJ and he reckoned that the deal was good and the only way to get more for the BMW would be to sell it privately.
Took a Mazda 6 for a test drive on Sunday which was a very nice drive. Dealer was prepared to give me £7000 PX and sell me a 2.0 TS Estate with metallic paint, full tank of petrol, mats etc. for £15600 (about 4% discount) and I hadn't even started bargaining with him. The best price I found was about £15200 and I think there is some scope for bargaining down to a CTC of £8500 which is more in line with what I was thinking of originally. I was more impressed with the Mazda salesman.
I still prefer the Avensis overall so I've gone back to the salesman to see if he can do anything more with the PX.
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The dealer set his line in the sand at £50 extra or a tank of fuel. Went back to the second dealer with details of the deal and spoke directly with the Sales Manager. They offered the car at £15346, PX of £6100 and £7000 over 2 years at 0%. It looked a better deal so I paid a deposit. When I spoke to the original dealer he was offering to see what he could do but I told him I'd decided to go with the other dealer.
However I haven't signed any paperwork yet and now I'm thinking I might have been a bit hasty with the other dealer. So I'm tempted to ring the dealer back to see whats on offer.
Any thoughts? The only advantage with dealer I've paid the deposit to is its local incase of problems.
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If you have handed over a deposit you have agreed to the deal. Pull out and you loose your deposit. From the sounds of things this will be more than any saving you might make. I don't see why you have asked this question!?
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Marty
I can't decide whether or not you are just being indecisive...
:-)
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Also, have you tought about the time you are spending (both yourself and the dealers) on this? Is it cost-effective?
Old Bill
PS Thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my message regarding your BMW
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And this whole thread show's why dealers have to make their money elsewhere, ie servicing and parts. Why not buy from the internet supplier in the first place if it is the cheapest price and sell the trade in privately ? I suspect I know the answer.
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