Ok i did a oil and filter change two weeks ago, and this problem has been going on on-and-off for much longer now, so i doubt its for 'water in fuel filter', unless its simply a dodgy light electrically.
I dont think its temperature related, because the temperature gauge reads absolutely normal and the car runs fine. I know you will say is the gauge right but i've monitored it closely since my old radiator went (on the M40 at 85mph), when it went to a good 95 degrees for a while (and yes the light was still doing the same thing before and after).
So i think the temp gauge can be trusted to show anything out of the ordinary.
Has anyone out there got experience of this light? Peugeot seemingly dont even think it is fitted to my car!
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Sorry adding to my previous post, the light doesnt strike me as depicting a thermometer, as the 'plunger' is definitely sitting above the two water(or fluid at least) waves, not in them, which makes me think maybe some kind of pressure gauge?
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I'm pretty sure its the radiator expansion tank level warning light. 306's are infamous for the radiator cores corroding, I'm on my 3rd in 8 years 100,001 miles, so check for leaks.
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The orange light in the left cornet that looks like an upside down microphone, is the water in fuel filter light (top left corner-ish). Fairly common problem on most pug 306 diesels.
I usually get it when I add fuel additive on servicing my car.
In the 7 years I have had my 306, never once have I been able to siphon out water. I wouldn't worry about it. If it annoys you, just disconnect the sensor (next to the fuel filter).
The sensor costs 80 quid to replace (part alone), but I doubt if your old one is faulty.
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By the way, the icon is supposed to depict the fuel filter, with fuel inlet at the top, and the wavy lines is the water sitting at the bottom of the filter (water being denser than diesel it sinks).
To put your mind at rest you could try opening the siphon valve on the bottom of the fuel filter and pumping the fuel pump grenade a few times (collecting remnants in a container for examination).
The sensor works by checking the conductivity of the fuel. If you add fuel additive this obviously affects it (as does water), hence the occasional flicker of the light.
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Thanks guys, thats really helpful, but im still not 100% which problem it is.
Ian, the rad is only 3months and 5000 miles old, and was definitely full this morning having had no extra coolant put in at all, so i don't think it can be the expansion tank sensor unless it is faulty. Where abouts on the expansion tank is it? Can it be removed?
Solara, you could well be right with the description of the light, but mine is definitely red, and in the top right bank of 6 lights, all of which seem to be ignored by the handbook. There is space for 6 warning lights there (dont know if they are all used tho) and it is the bottom right one of these 6. Hope that makes sense. The icon has a sort of T shape on top of what you say is representing the filter - still sound right?
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Aha just had another after-thought, the way in which i can get rid of the light by revving the engine surely rules out the expansion tank right? It would have no affect on this.
Whereas revving the engine pumps more fuel through, so this could be picked up by the sensor for the fuel filter, and so the less diluted fuel would turn the warning off?
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As a simple test, just disconnect the "water in fuel filter sensor" by unclipping the connector at the bottom of the fuel filter.
If you still get the red light, start looking elsewhere.
You may actually "have" water in your fuel filter! Try siphoning and see what comes out.
There are no pressure sensors on the expansion tank. The expansion tank is basically the bottle where u top up the coolant (next to the rad).
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The 'T' at the top of the warning light sounds right.
If I recall correctly mw "water in fuel filter light" looks something like this (93 XTDT)
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I-- --I
I I
I I
I ~~~~ I
I I
\-----/
All it takes is a few drops of water to sit at the bottom of your fuel filter to trigger the sensor. When you rev the engine hard, the fuel pressure increases, ad this may be sending the droplets of water swirling up, switching off the sensor.
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Sorry about the text diagram, looks like HJ has stripped out the spaces! I'll pad it with full stops.
--------
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...| |
.I-- --I
.I.....I
.I.....I
.I ~~~~I
.I.....I
.\-----/
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Sorry solara, i'm not sure that text diagram is much help either! But thanks for trying none the less. I'll try siphoning, and then maybe disconnecting the sensor over the weekend and get back to you then
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Does it look like this?
...=...
=======
~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
(using dot's for spaces!)
Probably not helpful but according to my Zsara handbook that's a low coolant level.
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Disconnect it - we do this every time, it's never worth the £80-odd to replace it.
Aslong as the filter is reguarly changed there is no need to worry.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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I'm pretty sure the light is the low level coolant light. Remove the expansion bottle cap on the left of the radiator and check you can see coolant in there.
The light is not covered in the handbook for some reason.
FYI The water in fuel light depicts an oval with the bottom half coloured black the top half yellow. It has what looks like a pipe running across the top.
The water in fuel light is yellow. I'm not sure of the colour of the low coolant light as it has never shown on my 306 but on my previous 205 it was red.
Ross
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Again, a digital photo in the HJ MSN site would have been a great idea!
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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This light is definitely a low coolant level light. The water in fuel light is orange, and the description Hawsey gives is exactly right for the low level light.
Now, to the cause.... Hmm, good one! These switches work by using the conductivity of the coolant to switch a transitor and bring the light on. Disconnecting the sensor (not sure of its location!) should bring the light on permanently. I had trouble with one in an old BX 14 - it came on when the car boiled over - it had been stolen and the relay for the cooling fan had been removed, it then stayed on, even when I had removed and cleaned the sensor - too much crud in the cooling system I think. I would first disconnect the sensor to see that the light comes on and stays on. Then remove the sensor and clean the probes, check the wiring etc.
I have a slight nagging worry about bubbles in the cooling system causing funny readings (head gasket troubles...???) - but I would have expected the symptoms to be the other way around if this was the case. Pointers for HG trouble - pressure in the cooling system when the engine is cold (eg in the morning), bubbles rising into the coolant, unexplained coolant loss, very quick pressurising of the coolant (eg within 30s - 1 min of engine start). I hope not!!
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I had this light come on in my 1997 pug 306 xtdt and i found too that it wasnt in the manual. But when i popped the bonnet it was obvious what had happened, one of the coolant bleed screws next to the fuel filter housing had given way.didnt lose much coolant, but it had spurted out over quite a large area of the engine only cost a few quid for the mechanic to sort out.dont know if this helps you hawesey.
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Uh-oh ive got coolant pressure even in the morning.....
But why does the light go on and off dependent on engine speed and the movement of the car then?
And the coolant *level* is fine, as is it's temperature?
The mechanic who changed the rad three months ago reckoned the HG was fine(of course he didn't actually look at it) even tho the car had run at 95 degrees for 15 miles. Since the new rad it always stays below 82 even at illegal-for-the-motorway speeds.
Is there any hope this isnt a terminal problem building up???
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>Uh-oh ive got coolant pressure even in the morning.....
Not good...a lot of pressure or just a small hiss? Have you tried the other tests (looking for bubbles, pressurising shortly after start up)? On the other hand, I ran a BX TD for about 60k miles with morning coolant pressure, before it got bad enough that I had to change the gasket.
I think that if you're getting bubbles they may collect on the probes of the sensor, causing the resistance to rise and the light to come on, when you rev the engine the bubbles are pushed / vibrated off and the light goes out again.
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Out of curiosity, where is low-level coolant sensor?
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It's mounted on the expansion tank, but on the front side of it so it is not visible.
Could it be possible the sensor itself is at fault? If the new rad did not come with one (Which I dont think they do, it is listed as a seperate part number by Peugeot) it could have been damaged somehow by being removed from the old rad and being installed on the new.
Ross
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If it wasn't for the warning light coming on, i wouldn't be at all concerned - the car runs fine, temp ok, i'm very tempted to simply disconnect the sensor and ignore the problem, ive had the same pressure in the coolant for a couple of months now anyway.
Just thought of another possibility, what if the connectors/wiring is chafing on something, and so intermittently it is touching and untouching, this is the only explanation i can think of other than RichardW's bubble vibration idea, and i can definitely turn the light off for a few seconds whilst braking, or when i declutch and the physical shaking of the engine changes, which makes me think maybe it is just a dodgy bit of wiring.
I'll check it out ASAP anyway, using Ross_D's description of where the sensor is, so hopefully an update tomorrow
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On and On. Ask A Pug dealer what the light means. ??? !!!
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Peter
- I tried that, admittedly only as i was driving past the garage the other day, but i popped in, drew them a picture, and they looked at me blank faced. So i told them it wasn't in the handbook, but had turned up on my instrument panel, and they laughed and said the had no idea! I went round to the servicing area to try and grab a mechanic, but was told that the only bloke who might know was on holiday. There's Peugeot main dealer knowledge for you!
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Hawesy
Have a look at this tinyurl.com/stf3
This is for a BX, but contains, I believe, the warning light you are looking at.
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Thanks RichardW, thats confirmed then, the low coolant light it is. Now to work out why it's coming on, as there is plenty in there! I'll see if i can get at the sensor itself sometime soon, i would have had a quick dig around for it this morning but didnt fancy it in the rain!
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What was the outcome Hawesy????
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Thanks for the reminder solara,
The outcome thus far is that its being ignored! The light is on virtually all the time, except under braking when the deceleration of the car presumably moves something. I've recently bled the cooling system of a huge airlock, which cured another niggling problem, but made no change whatsoever to the light being on.
Following the link RichardW gave me, it is definately the low coolant light that is on, however there is definitely plenty of coolant in the car and it doesnt lose any either!
I've got used to the light now, so it doesnt annoy or concern me in any way, i'll leave it as it is until i come to sell the car, at which point i will try to figure out how to disconnect it, or failing that remove the bulb!
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, yet another shining example or the wealth of knowledge present here
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Just had the same light come on the mrs TD 306, read your messages and then checked the coolant level in the header tank. Surprise suprise she let it run dry, filled the tank up and bled the system, jobs a carrot.
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Cannot believe how fantastic your whole discussion was about this problem!
I had it today for the first time and thought i'd do some research to help my dad out (cos he's gonna be the one probably fixing it while I do the usual and hang around in the garage passing him tools!)
I couldn't find it in the Peugeot manual either!!
Thanks loads!!
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Great to see a forum where people actually use the search function instead of just asking the same questions over and over.
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I'm having the same problem here and this site has been very helpful
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