Just been told by my friendly Rover service manager that head gasket has blown on my Nov '97 Rover Sterling 2.5, it just having done the phenomenal mileage of 57K!!, and having had full dealer service history. Even worse he tells me that because the engine block has suffered erosion, I'll need a new engine (£4,500). I gave up a 250,000 mile '86 Scorpio for this.
I understand this is not an unusual occurence with the K-engine
Sounds like I'm in a hole, the car itself would probably only fetch between £8-10K (you'll be lucky did I hear someone say!!)
How do I get out of this mess, with any semblance of financial dignity?
Otherwise, a lovely car, but I can certainly do without this headache.
Ideas would be welcome.
Thanks.
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a mate of mine had one of these, but his wife has out in it one day, she heard a loud bang from the engine, and instead of stopping the car and ringing the AA, she kept on going until the car gave out about a mile from his house, found a second hand engine for £1200 with 51000 miles, i fitted it for him (he's a mate), and the car is running perfectly now.
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Keith,
You need to be very realistic to think how to work this out. I wouldn't expect to see you offered over £3500 as a trade in for this when running OK. At auction I wonder.....under £3000? Please correct me anyone who thinks I have this a mile out.
Because of these low values a new engine from the dealer is almost out of the question........ unless you can keep it another 3/4 years and swallow hard.
A second hand engine is an option, I would want one a bit cheaper than £1200 though. Even by the time that is dealer fitted/serviced you are going to be up to about half the trade value. And then what is the chance that the s/h engine will suffer exactly the same fault soon??
You need David Lacey on this one.
David
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the dealer selling the engine had the service history to show that the car had done the mileage. also it was not me who bought the engine, my mate (john) had bought the engine before consulting me.
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I do not see why you need a new engine because the head gasket has gone ,I could understand a recon head if damage has uccured.But why is the bottom end damaged unless you ran over heating till the motor died.I do not think you did this.One point has the garage actually stripped the motor if not how does it know that there is so much damage.Look in exchange and mart for the cost of a recon head.They are not very difficult to replace.A total replacement at somewhere like Heathrow engines will not cost half that fitted.Do not despair sit down have think and do a bit of ringing around I think you will be able to reduce this bill by two thirds.
regards Andy Bairsto
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They've taken the head off both halves of the V6, and I am told that the aluminium block itself has suffered erosion (ie. a small crater at the edge of the coolant passage ways-not lots of physical damage, but enough that it needs to be fixed), where the coolant has reacted with the metal. If this erosion had occured on the head then I guess they could have skimmed them.
I understand that the crater can be filled with liquid metal, but that seems to be a short term fix, and would, I imagine be more susceptible to the chemical reaction sooner than the present situation.
I'll try ringing a few places.
Thanks for your input,
keith
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Chemical metal! I once repaired a block with it.
Worked a treat.
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Keith,
Dave has got me thinking. My reply was avoiding any bodges but it must be said that Chemical Metal could do the trick for quite a while (long?). I've used it a few times on my own cars (in the past) and actually it never failed before the car was sold on.
Wonder how much your dealer would charge for filling the pits on the block and assembling with a new gasket? Could you pay them so far and get an independent to do that if they wouldn't?
It might only be 15% of the new engine cost so perhaps worth a gamble. And if it worries you then trade it in! OK perhaps that sounds terrible but if you get a second hand engine there could be a 50/50 chance that's just what you'd be buying.
David
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Quoted around £1,600 which is slightly more than what he was going to charge for fixing a new gasket. So like you say, it may prove to be a satisfactory solution until I decide whether to keep or not, especially if Rover have a new recommendation regarding which coolant to use.
The re-con engine seems risky anyway. I've called a couple of engine shops and they do not handle the 24v ones. They say that special tools are needed to do the timing, and thus they need to then go to a Rover dealer.
(on the other hand, I did find one who claimed to be able to do a replacement, but I haven't been able to assess if they can do a proper job-they operate out of Twicjkenham, so if some one has good expereince of them it might be an alternative to the Liquid Metal solution).
Thanks, Keith
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Andy,
I'm now between the rock and the hard place.
The dealership is saying that to do just a repair to the block is more expensive than a new engine. (I guees they don't want any come back).
Following up on your suggestion of Heathrow Engines, I did call a company operating out of Twickenham from Exchange and Mart, and got a good quote, and they will even pick it up from garage. I could not find reference to Heathrow Engines, and I am told that they are the same company. Have you actually used or know someone who has used Heathrow? I have had mixed reports in the past.
The only other practical option I have had is to have it taken to a local mechanic, who'll get it back on the road with some repair work to the block, with the aim trade it in.
Thanks,
Keith
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Search on Lycos for 'Dave Pallant' as he has a site dedicated to Rover 800's. Might be something there about getting the block built up.
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Dave,
I checked it out. There are leads to other sites indicating that many, many others have suffered exactly the same problem, and who are in similar dilemmas, with boots full with KV6's.
Thanks,
Keith
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Perhaps, an "Oldie" can put his head above the parapet here. It seems to me that many motor engineers/garages etc, are too keen to throw away good engines and quote phenomonal prices for replacements. After only 57k miles, can it really be true that the "erosion" of the block is of any depth ?. The heads can easily be skimmed, 2/3 thou would probably be sufficient. Cannot the eroded block area be drilled and studded (aluminium or copper plug), coated with one of these modern liquid metals, and carefully faced off by hand ? We used to use copper studding in iron heads and blocks and it worked very well. Is there an engine reconditioning Company in your area who would consider this job ? New gaskets of course and new head bolts to complete the job. I can see the garage point of view, ie, the labour costs, the come backs, the required skills etc, which make the new engine, understandably, the only option but, I should think that someone would have a go at this repair, for far less money than the other options.
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John,
That really looks to be a lower cost 'solution'. If Rover would admit they made a mistake and that there are new designed gaskets and more appropriate coolants, to give such a solution a chance of success, then I would consider it.
At the moment, it seems they have a raft of disgruntled customers ( 15-20 registered on various web sites) out there who will just move away from Rover at the earliest opportunity.
I'll see what Rover recommend.
Thanks,
Keith
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The new OAT antifreezes now used by the OEM's is Organic Acid Technology Engine Coolant.
What this means, I'm not sure....
It is much more tolerant to aluminium engines and cylinder head gaskets than the old ethylene glycol stuff. It will also 'last' longer.
Older engines can use this OAT stuff providing the systems is fully flushed out beforehand. PSA Group XUD engines come to mind!
Rgds
David
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Keith,
This (was) a widespread problem with this engine some time ago.
It only affected Rover 825's and hasn't affected any Rover 75's (Which basically use the same engine)
The is a modified head gasket available. The usual indicator of headgasket trouble on this engine is the expansion tank filling with engine oil. Did this occur on yours? If so, a new radiator and cooling system rubber hoses will be required. The heater matrix will require flushing with degreaser to rid the system of all the oil.
We do, unfortunately, see quite a bit of alloy erosion in the lightweight K series engine - we had one last week. The only cure was a new engine - but if it were mine, I would have happily used some chemical metal and repaired the area in question.
New types of OAT antifreeze mixtures are now used to combat the erosion. Regular changes are also important.
Best of luck
David
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Dave,
Your 'was' in parentheses gives me some hope. If the 75's are not showing similar faults then it looks as if Rover might have a solution for the underlying problem. Though I sense that Rover have not issued a service bulletin for the 825 to the dealers recommending certain revised gaskets and coolant or even more frequent coolant changes. Maybe they don't want to publicise this issue as it might make them liable.
The flow was water into oil, I didn't notice any oil in the water reservoir, but, there again I didn't look very hard for any scum marks. At the final stage, the oil (mayonaise!) level rose accordingly.
We'll see what Rover's response is. If they do have a technical fix to prevent the corrosion, then it would help them to promote it and come clean about the previous problems. At the moment, I am in the mood to get it on the road and flog it, which saddens me because (so far) it is quite a nice car otherwise.
By the way, what is OAT?
Thanks for your encouraging noises.
Keith
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