How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
Does anyone have any suggestions on who to lobby to get a dangerous stretch of road looked at? For those that know Stockport I\'m talking about the Armoury roundabout at the top of Edgeley, for those that don\'t, you have a fairly small roundabout that (the two ways I approach it) has two lanes on the entry. Coming from my house there is a \'short-cut\' before the roundabout itself so that way you\'ll only get people taking the first exit if they are either in a daydream or don\'t know the area at all.

What tends to happen is that, as with most roundabouts, you can\'t get straight on to the roundabout itself so a queue of 4 or 5 cars builds up. Of course, you always get idiots who decide that they will go in the right hand lane for going straight on rather than the left hand lane as they should. The roundabout itself is fairly narrow and the exits quickly narrow down to a single lane.

It wouldn\'t be quite so bad if the right-hand lane users did the decent thing and did a full loop of the roundabout, but they always barge their way in, often racing for any tiny gap that is left. Today, I was very lucky to have fairly good tyres as I was almost forced off the roundabout and had to brake hard in wet conditions by one of these impatient idiots, but it\'s not an uncommon occurance - there aren\'t many days go by when someone doesn\'t barge infront of me.

I\'ve contacted the council about this before but they didn\'t reply. Recently they have installed a puffin crossing just beyond the roundabout which makes matters worse as not only do you have to try and avoid people barging their way in, you also have to be aware that the traffic flow may stop suddenly and backup on to the roundabout itself which it never did before. Coming the other way they have also changed the road markings to show both lanes as being for straight ahead. This is very stupid as while the exit of the roundabout is wide enough, it very, very quickly narrows to one lane so there is plenty of scope of comings together...

So, who do I voice my concerns to? The council don\'t seem interested in anything - I\'ve contacted them on a few points before without a successful response. It\'s hardly a police matter, so what next?
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - X5
1) I've had some response from a highways engineer in the Environmental Services Department of our county council, though Stockport may be structured differently from Wiltshire.

2) It *should* be of interest to the police. Try the Divisional Inspector of the Traffic Police. You'll find that they get very interested if someone gets injured, or if a pattern of accidents appears. Usually the council and police work together on these issues.

3) If all else fails, try your MP. They can usually provoke a response from someone in the right department, then at least you've got a name.

4) Don't hold your breath waiting for anything to happen, even if it's blindingly obvious even to a retarded maggot that something need doing, and soon.

Good luck.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - kithmo
I don't see what's wrong with using both lanes for going straight ahead at a roundabout. Whether you're on or exiting the roundabout you should give way to traffic from the right, so these "idiots" as you call them have the right of way. If you choose to sit in a queue of 4 or 5 cars and they choose to use an empty lane then I would think that you probably are the one that has made the wrong decision. If everybody thought the way you do then the queue would be longer.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - eMBe {P}
kith: I agree entirely with you. My reply to steveh42 was posted while yours was somewhere in the ether!
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
I don't see what's wrong with using both lanes for going
straight ahead at a roundabout.


Nothing is wrong if the layout is suitable for that. However, both exits on this roundabout are single lanes and there is very little space to filter in. Coupled with the fact it is a very tight roundabout there isn't enough space to safely manouver. (IMO)
Whether you're on or exiting the
roundabout you should give way to traffic from the right, so
these "idiots" as you call them have the right of way.


I don't see your point here. You can't just swing right across a roundabout and exit from the inside, certainly not without indicating as many of them don't bother doing. You also can't try and overtake traffic on the roundabout as many effectively try and do.

From what I can tell from the highway code and what I was taught when I was learning, it's left hand lane for left or straight on, right hand lane for going right. In this case as I said originally, left isn't an option 99.9% are going to choose anyway so the split between lanes becomes even more obvious...
If you choose to sit in a queue of 4 or
5 cars and they choose to use an empty lane then
I would think that you probably are the one that has
made the wrong decision.


No, I'm afraid I don't agree here. It's not a queue really anyway, it's just the fact that traffic has to slow from the speed limit to negotiate the obstruction. Anyone trying to force their way around traffic slowing to take it safely is causing a hazard as well as being ruddy cheeky. If traffic was having to sit and wait for a gap then I can see your point. Possibly. But when it is flowing then no, it's not right.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Bromptonaut
Kith wrote
Whether you're on or exiting the
roundabout you should give way to traffic from the right, so
these "idiots" as you call them have the right of way.


Where in the highway code or elsewhere does it say this. Appreciate you give way before joining but give way to traffic "overtaking" on the roundabout?
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Andrew-T
Kith - one gives way to traffic already ON the roundabout; that does not include drivers waiting to enter in the right-hand lane.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - kithmo
Kith - one gives way to traffic already ON the roundabout;
that does not include drivers waiting to enter in the right-hand
lane.

I think SteveH42, was talking about being cut up by others exiting the roundabout not joining it, so they ARE already on the roundabout.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - kithmo
Kith wrote
>> Whether you're on or exiting the
>> roundabout you should give way to traffic from the right,
so
>> these "idiots" as you call them have the right of
way.
Where in the highway code or elsewhere does it say this.
Appreciate you give way before joining but give way to traffic
"overtaking" on the roundabout?

>>
Simon, in section 161 under roundabouts
Quote; "give way to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights"
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - eMBe {P}
>>"Of course, you always get idiots who decide that they will go in the right hand lane for going straight on rather than the left hand lane as they should. ..">>

>>"Coming the other way they have also changed the road markings to show both lanes as being for straight ahead. This is very stupid ...>>

I would first read up the Highway Code. Then, and only if I was so confident that I was right, I would contact the highways Design Engineering department at the Council. I would never call people stupid or idiots, though.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
I would first read up the Highway Code.


I have just double-checked with the online version and nothing it says goes against what I feel.

My main point is that regardless of what the highway code or anything else says, this road layout poses a hazard due to the way it is used by some road users.
I would never call people stupid or idiots, though.


They know the road layout, they know they can skip forward a few spots in the traffic and save a few second for themselves and don't care about the risk they put others in, or the delay they add to the journies of others. Why shouldn't I call a spade a spade?
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Dynamic Dave
They know the road layout, they know they can
skip forward a few spots in the traffic and save a
few second for themselves and don't care about the risk they
put others in, or the delay they add to the journies
of others. Why shouldn't I call a spade a spade?


While you're sat in that inside lane, the people in the other lane are getting on with their journey. Instead of complaining about them, get in that lane and do the same. You know what they say - if you can't beat 'em, then join 'em.

Rules for a two lane roundabout are; left lane is for taking the first left exit or straight on. Right lane is straight on or any other exits further on around the roundabout.
In traffic I nearly aways chose the R/H lane if I'm going straight on as the majority of traffic in the L/H lane are turning left.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Dynamic Dave
Further to my previous post, from the Highway Code.

www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#160

When taking the first exit:-
.signal left and approach in the left-hand lane,
.keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.

When taking any intermediate exit:-
.select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary,
.stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout,
.signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to:-
.traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
.traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly.

Mini-roundabouts:-
Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Welliesorter
The Highway Code is vaguer than I thought it would be: it doesn't seem to define 'appropriate lane'.

On the other hand, the diagram in Dynamic Dave's link does clearly show a vehicle going straight on and sticking to the left hand lane. I learned to drive more recently than most here and was taught to keep left when going straight on, unless road markings dictate otherwise. Often there'll be arrows that make the choice of lane obvious but there are plenty of badly marked roundabouts.

I also find the instructions on mini-roundabouts unhelpful. You can't treat them in the same way as normal roundabouts because they're smaller! My driving instructor taught me to give way to vehicles signalling right as they approach the roundabout. I've been involved in endless debates with experienced drivers who are convinced this is wrong. The situation wouldn't really arise with a full-sized roundabout as you often can't see what's directly opposite and don't necessarily need to.

Sorry about the slight digression there. Can you go off at a tangent on a roundabout?
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
In traffic I nearly aways chose the R/H lane if I'm
going straight on as the majority of traffic in the L/H
lane are turning left.


Yes, but as I've tried to point out, with this roundabout, at least in the direction this most often happens the left hand lane is very, very rarely used as there is a cut-though about 50 yards before the roundabout for traffic that would otherwise go left. All the drivers that use it regularly know this and should have the sense to see that it makes it a no-contest for which lane to choose. They also know it's a small, tight roundabout and that trying to nip past and push in isn't as easy or safe as it could be on a larger roundabout, yet they still do it. In recent months (as posted here) I've had one idiot nearly lose control and slide in to me and this latest one nearly force me off the road, and plenty of other incidents where an accident could easily have happened.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - stackman
I would put myself in the right hand lane camp but have encountered some crass road manners from those in the left.

The real problem in these situations is that the people who have sat and queued in the left hand lane become so indignant at those who legitimately choose the right hand that they refuse to allow them to filter off to the straight ahead exit.

What would help is for the local authority to signpost the approach and advise motorists going straight on to use both lanes then filter in turn.

This would prevent the resentment felt by the left hand laners who endanger other road users and inhibit traffic flow by sticking to the bumper of the car in front of them and edge out anyone trying to leave the roundabout.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - paulb {P}
I have never fully understood the point of having two lanes to approach a roundabout on a single carriageway road. All it ever seems to cause is aggro of the kind depicted above, when people have to go down into one lane again immediately after the roundabout and you then get all the resultant carving-up, hooting, flashing, one-finger salutes and general bad manners that seems to be compulsory in this sort of situation.

Possibly the people who design this kind of road layout enjoyed crashing their toy cars into one another when they were children and have never grown out of it.

As Stackman says, the only way round this (other than to rearrange the road in order to remove one of the lanes) is to put signposts up indicating which lane to use. Why this can't be done before all multi-laned approaches to roundabouts I have no idea. It would certainly resolve all the various arguments over what is and is not the correct lane to use for a particular manoeuvre.

True, you would still have a hard core of muppets who don't think it applies to them, but just maybe it might help everyone else, especially those who don't know the area and aren't sure.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
I would put myself in the right hand lane camp but have
encountered some crass road manners from those in the left.


IMEx most of the bad road manners come from those in the right who aim for gaps that aren't there and try and out-drag people in the correct lane from a standing start to give themselves a chance to get in the correct lane without taking someone's bumper off.

I've said before that I can see the point about taking the quieter lane where it's a large roundabout and most traffic is not going the way you are. In this case they know where traffic in the left is going and they know the roundabout isn't big enough to do what they are trying to do safely and certainly not without inconveniencing others.
The real problem in these situations is that the people who
have sat and queued in the left hand lane become so
indignant at those who legitimately choose the right hand
that they refuse to allow them to filter off to the straight
ahead exit.


But the point is it's not legitimate, they just can't be bothered to wait their turn and don't care if they delay others. As I said before, it's not really a queue, just traffic has to slow to negotiate the roundabout. I've even had times when I've been able to drive straight up to the roundabout and join it straight away but still some idiot tries to force their way past me on it.
What would help is for the local authority to signpost the
approach and advise motorists going straight on to use both
lanes then filter in turn.


Wouldn't work here. The exit is only just two cars wide if you are both very careful and the roundabout is too small to allow easy filtering.

Also, in this case, as I've said several times and everyone is ignoring, the road layout means that effectively the roundabout, at least in the direction where this problem is worst is effectively two exits, straight on and right. The left exit is very rarely used by traffic as there is a cut-through beforehand so only people unfamiliar with the area or in a world of their own would use it.

To be honest, I think what would work best here would be a cross-roads with traffic lights rather than a roundabout. One entrance has lights about 50 yards before the roundabout anyway so if they were phased it wouldn't slow them down any more and would allow the other ways to flow more freely. Most traffic is straight over anyway from all four entrances.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - spikeyhead {p}
But the point is it's not legitimate, they just
can't be bothered to wait their turn and don't care if
they delay others.


But the point is that the highway code says that it is legitimate. I've never been to Stockport, but have noticed that the further from London I travel, the bigger the left lane queue and the more irate the left lanes queuers become when I legitimately use the right lane.
On a slightly different note what really annoys me on roundabouts is what happenned to me last night, when some left lane queue lover decided to turn right as I went straight on legitimately from the right lane.
If all the traffic shared the lanes equally, better progress would be made by all.
If you don't want to be outdragged, buy an Imprezza Turbo, I did, although I'll trade it in soon for another Caterham 7 becuase I'm bored with it.

--
I read often, only post occaisionally
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
But the point is that the highway code says that it
is legitimate.


No, the highway code says to use the most appropriate lane. On a narrow roundabout where everyone in the left hand lane will be going straight on and there is no room to safely filter in then the right hand lane is not appropriate.

As I've said many times, it's not as if it's even a queue really, just traffic slowing to negotiate an obstruction which is made worse by people barging in from the right hand lane.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - kithmo
>>
I have just double-checked with the online version and
nothing it says goes against what I feel.


Read section 161, roundabouts
My main point is that regardless of what the
highway code or anything else says, this road layout poses a
hazard due to the way it is used by some road
users.


I think it's a case of regardless what the highway code says, it's wrong and you are right, there would be no hazard if you allowed them to filter in, instead of trying to cut them out or beat them off the line when traffic starts moving.
They know the road layout, they know they can
skip forward a few spots in the traffic and save a
few second for themselves and don't care about the risk they
put others in, or the delay they add to the journies
of others. Why shouldn't I call a spade a spade?

>>

They know the road layaout and as you have stated it IS marked up both lanes for straight on I think you are just annoyed because they have made more progress than you have. I personally am a left laner and prefer to sit in the queue rather than face the aggro of drivers like yourself not following the highway code and giving way to traffic from the right. I on the other hand DO give way to traffic from the right and leave at least a car and a half space in front of me if queueing on the exit from the roundabout allowing the right laners to filter in.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - SteveH42
They know the road layaout and as you have stated it
IS marked up both lanes for straight on


I should have been clearer. One way it is, but the way that the problem is worst it isn't marked at all.
I think you are just annoyed because they have made more
progress than you have.


Yes, I am, because they are effectively queue-jumping. They know where everyone else is going and choose to barge in rather than keep in the queue, this delaying everyone else. It's more annoying as these people also tend to be the same ones that further on along my route choose to sit in the right hand lane at a set of lights and try and force their way in to the left lane, thus meaning I miss my turn right cycle, again they know the road layout and choose to ignore convention to try and gain a few seconds at other's expense.
I personally am a left laner and prefer to sit
in the queue rather than face the aggro of drivers like
yourself not following the highway code and giving way to
traffic from the right.


No, it ISNT giving way to traffic from the right. That is before you join the roundabout - once you are on, it's a matter of changing lanes which should be done in a safe manner. You don't just give way because someone decides they want to drive around you and barge their way in, especially where there isn't space to do so safely.
leave at least a car and a half space in front of me if
queueing on the exit from the roundabout allowing the right
laners to filter in.


Thus annoying everyone behind you who wants to get on with their journey but are being delayed by you letting these idiots get away with flouting convention.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - kithmo
No, it ISNT giving way to traffic from the
right. That is before you join the roundabout - once you
are on, it's a matter of changing lanes which should be
done in a safe manner. You don't just give way because
someone decides they want to drive around you and barge their
way in, especially where there isn't space to do so safely.


Read abit further down the page then, section 163,

Quote: "IN ALL CASES watch out for AND GIVE PLENTY OF ROOM TO
Traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit.
Traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly

This is why I leave at least a car and a half space in front of me if queueing on the exit from the roundabout allowing the right laners to filter in.
Thus annoying everyone behind you who wants to get
on with their journey but are being delayed by you letting
these idiots get away with flouting convention.


I am just following the highway code not YOUR "convention", as you call it. The only people getting annoyed behind me are people like you.
Why don't you write to HM stationers and ask them to rewrite the highway code to suit you and your unhindered progress, not safety, as is intended.
How to get a traffic hazard recognised - Dynamic Dave
Yes, I am, because they are effectively queue-jumping. They
know where everyone else is going and choose to barge in
rather than keep in the queue, this delaying everyone else.


Let me get this straight; you're sat in a queue of traffic in the L/H lane while the R/H lane is empty? A motorist comes along and sees the R/H lane is empty and the L/H lane with traffic in. Now as this motorist wants to go straight on (ie, the 2nd exit off the r-about) he has a choice; does he join the queue in the L/H lane or take the empty R/H lane? As he is legally entitled to use the R/H lane, he does so. What is so wrong with that? He is reading the road and using that knowledge to his full advantage.

No wonder this country is grid locked with people sat in one lane when there are two to choose from.

What is really annoying at r-abouts is when the person in front of you comes to a complete stop when the r-about is empty. It's far better, and less traffic congesting to slow down, look ahead and keep moving if the r-about is empty.
 

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