Diesel - not so cheap ? - arnold2
Commonly held wisdom is that, under high mileages, diesel cars will save you money.

Well, I have been doing some calculations for replacing my Corolla 1.4:

On 30k p.a. driving over 3 years, so the car when I sell it at the end hasn't gone over 100k, I compared a Corolla 1.4 T3 3 door to a variety of diesel mid-size hatchbacks - Corolla, Seat Leon, Golf, even Audi A2 with the 75bhp Tdi. All the diesels costed in between £11.5 - 13k from on-line brokers, the 1.4 Corolla at just under £10K.

The result - even with the superior fuel economy of the diesels, not one of them were actually cheaper to run, since even the A2 only saved £1K in 3 years - the others even less. The Corolla is at least £2k cheaper to buy than any of them. In Britain we pay 3p extra for diesel, which doesn't help.

Of course, you have to figure depreciation into this too - will a 95k 3 year diesel be worth more than a 95k petrol ? This comparison only holds if you don't want a big car - for Passat/Mondeo sized cars, diesels can get 50mpg, but the petrol versions around 35, so a better bet here clearly. If you were prepared to go to a Polo/Fabia 75bhp Tdi, or HJ's favourite Yaris diesel, the result wouldn't hold - but I wouldn't fancy doing 150 miles per day in a Yaris, thank you !

Makes you think, though...
Diesel - not so cheap ? - Marcos{P}
You forgot to mention that servicing is cheaper with a diesel too.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - arnold2
Diesel servicing on all the above I mentioned is higher than the Corolla - Corolla - 10k minor, 20k full, no timing belt to change ever !
Diesel - not so cheap ? - Flat in Fifth
arnold2

Your conclusion is more or less what one of the motoring mags came up with.

Basically they concluded that when you get to small engined hatchbacks, and 1.4 l was the engine size they mentioned IIRC, then the cost driving force is less clear cut and can in many cases favour petrol.

In that situation then there are many other more important issues to consider.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - googolplex
Two points.
Firstly, I am interested in and surprised by Arnold's findings re price of small diesels. Assuming his figures are correct, the diesels seem very much over-priced to me. Is this an example of profiteering on behalf of the motor companies or are smaller diesels really that much more expensive to build?

Secondly, I appreciate that this survey is finance based but I think it worth pointing out that reasons for buying diesels do not just include finance. In my case, I much prefer the drive of a diesel - much more relaxed and enjoyable, only stopping for fuel every 600 miles, etc - for me, the associated costs are largely irrelevant.

Splodgeface
Diesel - not so cheap ? - Phoenicks
Diesels may be cheaper to service, but dont they need servicing more often?
Diesel - not so cheap ? - v0n
Add insurance costs. Typical 2 litre diesel in most cases is in the same insurance group as 1.6 litre petrol model of the same trim level. The difference is usually more prenounced than in Corolla range - imagine paying the same for fairly sporty Turbo Diesel and regular 1.6.

And let's not forget UK is about the only country in Europe where proce of diesel fuel is higher than petrol...
Diesel - not so cheap ? - T Lucas
But if you live in the UK you have to pay UK prices.Simple really.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - v0n
Of course you have to pay UK prices (unless you're into Veggie Power ;) ), but it explains why Diesel cars are more expensive when new. Everywhere outside UK they are clearly more economical right from the start.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - daveyjp
Phoenicks - the VAG 1.4 diesel engine requires servicing less often than the petrol equivalent. - around 25,000 miles as opposed to about 15,000.

I bought the 1.4 TDi A2 predominantly because the drive is much better than the 1.4 petrol and the 1.6 FSi (which I found to be awful). I also get 400+ miles from less than 40 litres of fuel. My ex demo diesel cost LESS than the ex demo 1.6FSi and only £500 more than the lesser specced 1.4 petrol (no climate control etc).
Diesel - not so cheap ? - arnold2
What sort of economy do you get from the A2 Tdi ?
Diesel - not so cheap ? - daveyjp
Arnold2 - day to day trip to work, 7 miles each way with approx 2 miles of dual carriageway rest slow moving rush hour traffic 40-45 mpg. Motorway run 50+ mpg.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - arnold2
daveyjp - what do you get at 80mph ? Real bug-bear with all current Corolla's (bar the 1.8 w/6 speed) - the gearing is too low, so I go from 43mpg @ 70mph to less than 35mpg @ 80 mph !
Diesel - not so cheap ? - daveyjp
Arnold2 - the motorway figure above is for speeds around 70-80 mph. It does about 3,000 revs at 80.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - arnold2
daveyjp - thanks... when I test drive some of my replacement choices I'm going to run them to 80 and see what the mpg looks like - I do a lot of motorway driving !
Diesel - not so cheap ? - AlanGowdy
I just like the way my turbodiesel does things. Loads of torque for strong mid-range acceleration (great for swift overtaking, no need to drop a gear). 130 mph top speed. 0-60 in nine point something seconds (adequate for real world motoring). 1800 rpm at 70 mph. 50-plus mpg without trying, 60-plus with a light right foot. It's no wonder you see TDI badges on so many bootlids now.

Sure I could better the outright acceleration with many petrol cars - and struggle to get 30 mpg - no thanks.

I could match the economy with a petrol car and go nuts as the 1-litre engine revs its kn***ers off at motorway speeds - no thanks.

If that makes it a compromise then it's a compromise I'm all in favour of. If only they'd reduce the tax on the fuel to euro-levels.
Diesel - not so cheap ? - alan kearn
I thought you would have got more MPG than that . The new Polo 1.4 tdi that i have got and which i think is slightly heavier than the A2 (aluminium body?) does about 65 miles MPG at 70 and 55 MPG semi rural.By the way 1000rpm = 28.5 MPH in top gear

Alan
Diesel - not so cheap ? - AlanGowdy
I've got a SEAT Ibiza, 6-speed. 1.9 TDI. About 37 MPH per 1000 RPM in top gear - and it will still accelerate happily!
Diesel - not so cheap ? - alan kearn
AlanGowdy

Seems that most "new type diesel engined car owners" are happy people irrespective of the engine size.

Alan
Diesel - not so cheap ? - daveyjp
Alan - It does depend on your driving and the 1.4TDi had a few changes made at the beginning of this year to make it EU4 compliant (my A2 is a 2002 model), whether this increases mopg I don't know.

I do do more than 70 mph on the motorway (sorry officer!) so the mileage is reduced and if semi rural means 50-60mph in the countryside it will probably do around 60mpg - its just that my driving pattern isn't like that and I've never tested it in such conditions.

Most of my mileage is around town and city with the occasional motorway blast. I've always had the best mileage out of cars on holidays to Scotland and Ireland where the roads are quiet enough for you to cruise along at 50-60 all day - sadly in urban West Yorkshire this is more difficult!

Whatever I get I know its more than the 25-35 mpg I was getting from the Focus!!
Diesel - not so cheap ? - alan kearn
daveyjp

"Whatever I get I know its more than the 25-35 mpg I was getting from the Focus!!"


And thats the thing that counts.

Alan
Diesel - not so cheap ? - AlanGowdy
Actually - I'd love a seventh gear. About 50 mph per 1000 rpm would do.... 1400 rpm at 70 mph. Ridiculous.
I reckon the Ibiza would still be able to accelerate (abeit modestly and perhaps not too well up a long motorway gradient) though that's not what such a cruising gear would be about.
 

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